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H2O Man

(75,975 posts)
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 02:15 PM Nov 29

The Machine

"The machine that we built would never save us" -- Jimi Hendrix


A machine is defined as "an apparatus using or applying mechanical power and having several parts, each with a definite function and together performing a particular task." And a corporation is defined as "a group of people or company authorized by law to act as a single entity." Neither machines nor corporations are human beings, though humans have obvious associations with both.

Willard Mitt Romney said corporations are "of course" people. The US Supreme Court ruled in a similar fashion in Citizens United. These are, of course, the same people who have decided they have the right to limit women's health care, based upon their religion. I think the majority of people -- despite the election results -- wish that the court focus more on the rights, responsibilities, and needs of actual living human beings.

This has me thinking about an environmental activist who died last year, Jerry Irwin Mander. His 1978 book, "Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television" was interesting. I have his 1991, "In the Absence of the Sacred," which has quite a lot of interesting information in it. And he was friends with Onondaga Faithkeeper Oren Lyons, who I've also been friends with since the 1980s. The book delivers parts of Oren's thinking, and it has a lot to say about machines and corporations.

I'll keep this relatively brief by just skimming over some of Mander's thoughts on corporations.

1. The profit imperative. For profit is the ultimate goal of all corporate decisions.
2. The growth imperative. Profits = growth = profits.
3. Competition and aggression.
4. Amorality. They aren't huan, and thus have no conscience.
5. Hierarchy.
6. Dehumanization. Both the community and environment are objectified.
7. Exploitation. This includes resources and labor.
8. Ephemerality. They are legal creations that exist only on paper.
9. Opposition to nature.
10. Homogenization.

This is not to say that there are not corporations run by socially conscious, good people. There are, of course. But these are a tiny button on a large coat. By no coincidence, they are not the ones that have coated the environment with toxic wastes. Nor are they the ones that coat their puppets in DC with contributions. Those contributions have strings attached.

Are we thus helpless? No. Now, in one of his essays, Mander quoted the late journalist A. J. Liebling: "Freedom of the press is guaranteed, but only if you own one.” I'm reminded of when a friend was complaining about the quality of the television news. My brother scolded him, saying no American had the right to complain about television when there were public libraries. That Amendment 1 provided rights, but also responsibilities.

Back in the late 1700s, when a hostile foreign force was oppressing my ancestors, including outlawing education, my great (X7) grandfather was a hedge school master. Classes were held in fields off the highways and biways. At its best, DU serves as a hedge school along the information highway. It helps us think outside the box that the corporations that sell the media create to trap our thinking. That box too often limits even intelligent people to binary thinking. And that, of course, includes people being puzzled by the Native American vote, for one small example.

11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Machine (Original Post) H2O Man Nov 29 OP
Hmmm, DU as a hedge school. Very good.... Hekate Nov 29 #1
I think so. H2O Man Nov 29 #2
Great post! Elessar Zappa Nov 29 #3
Thanks! H2O Man Nov 29 #4
I like the notion of DU as a hedge school Saoirse9 Nov 29 #5
Thanks! H2O Man Nov 29 #6
Well. I don't know if I actually hate Saoirse9 Nov 29 #7
Yes. H2O Man Nov 29 #8
I ravenously consumed "In the Absence of the Sacred" misanthrope Dec 5 #9
Jerry was H2O Man Dec 5 #10
Rage.................. Against The Machine Celerity Dec 5 #11

Hekate

(95,659 posts)
1. Hmmm, DU as a hedge school. Very good....
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 02:37 PM
Nov 29

Off on a tangent (or maybe not, as my mind works this way) — Terry Pratchett, of Discworld fame, played on the concept of hedge-witches by positing that the most skilled are edge-witches, because they attend to the edges of circumstances. He returns to the thought in several books, but this is from Thief of Time:

An edge witch is one who makes her living on the edges, in that moment when boundary conditions apply—between life and death, light and dark, good and evil and, most dangerously of all, today and tomorrow.

We are at an edge now, aren’t we?

H2O Man

(75,975 posts)
2. I think so.
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 02:43 PM
Nov 29

I often find myself looking up to see if we are already over the edge, falling in space.

H2O Man

(75,975 posts)
4. Thanks!
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 02:48 PM
Nov 29

The last line has to do with some discussions I have seen as of late about the Native American vote earlier this month.

Saoirse9

(3,831 posts)
5. I like the notion of DU as a hedge school
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 03:15 PM
Nov 29

And I MUST get back to listening and reading Oren Lyons. Just like you, he makes me feel peaceful.

H2O Man

(75,975 posts)
6. Thanks!
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 03:44 PM
Nov 29

It was fifty years ago -- plus a few months -- that I first encountered Oren. We were on opposite sides of an issue that night ...... he was in the corner of the great boxing champion Carmen Basilio's last fighter, who went on to be a good heavyweight. But that night, on an amateur card, he was fighting my brother-in-law. I was working his corner.

A few years later, Oren and I became friends. We had a lot in common, and worked together. We were able to do that, despite having been on opposite sides in the past. I could be wrong, as I so often am, but I think there's a lesson in there someone. I remember when Oren's good friend, Senator Daniel Inouye said he wanted Oren to be the Secretary of State in a Democratic Party administration. I suspect there might be potential advantages found in having our party return to that type of thinking in the next few years. Again, I might well be wrong. It may be that hating those who we agree on most things, but disagree with on something in the ring, is the answer. We should all think about such choices.

Saoirse9

(3,831 posts)
7. Well. I don't know if I actually hate
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 04:12 PM
Nov 29

anyone but there is a whole slew of people I would rather avoid than spend time with.

I had a difficult luncheon today. My favorite cousin, who used to be my best friend, married someone who has become a rabid trumper and thinks Covid vaccines are a Democratic hoax. A few weeks ago my beloved cousin told me that a) her son couldn't obtain health insurance because he is white and b) she voted for trump because "Kamala couldn't answer any questions". I despair of her ever returning to sanity. She has recently been diagnosed with cancer and her aunt talked me into going to a birthday lunch. So it is my plan to see her if she needs help while sick, but otherwise write her off, basically.

Two of the women at the lunch are also trumpers. One of the two women is really crazy. Although I had never met her in person before today, the day after the election she sent me a "we won haha" message on Facebook because she didn't like things her sister and I had talked about on Facebook that were derogatory about trump. I mean it was probably months ago. But she remembered it and wrote to me. So it was an interesting moment when I introduced myself and she said her name, I said mine. I figured out who she was. But I don't even know if she realizes I am the woman who sent her a blistering reply in return to her election day message and blocked her.

That's the little town I live in. I am surrounded by pod people. So I'll bet Oren Lyons would know exactly how I feel. I need to listen to him. We all managed to leave our claws in for the lunch. So I am happy about that. But I don't want to spend time with the pod people anymore.

H2O Man

(75,975 posts)
8. Yes.
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 04:29 PM
Nov 29

I was not aiming that at you. I think that if you hate anything, it is injustice and human suffering.

Living in a region where republicans far outnumber Democrats -- and independents now outnumber republicans -- I try not to go out in public too often. For example, at the grocery store, I am at increased risk of encountering someone I've know for many decades -- and purposely have avoided in the past decade -- who wear maga hats. I see little difference between wearing those hats and having "I'm a fool" tatooed on their foreheads. (Or just using a magic marker or crayon.)

Do I ever think, "You need a good slap of reality!" when I try to get away from them, but they cling and just keep saying crazy shit? Note that I quoted Liebling in the OP. He wrtote about a lot of things, of course, but is known in the boxing community as an award-winning boxing writer. And that I discussed a boxing match from 50 years ago. So of course that thought passes through my mind. I'm human, or at least boxed in a human body for the time being.

misanthrope

(8,315 posts)
9. I ravenously consumed "In the Absence of the Sacred"
Thu Dec 5, 2024, 07:33 PM
Dec 5

Mander's contentions and points about the effect of television on the human psyche as opposed to radio or reading has stayed with me all these years. So has his central question about modern progress: "Progressing toward what?"

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