I had an interesting conversation with a life-long friend... and he doesn't vote.

[In It to Win It]

This person was my best friend growing up. We're 90s-baby millennials. We live in South Florida. We know each other's families. He works at a hotel. He recently joined a hospitality workers union. He works two jobs.

He stopped by on Thanksgiving. We were catching up because we hadn't seen each other in some time. We had a long conversation about everything under sun. We get to politics, and I was actually kind of shocked that he had opinions on politics and politicians because as far as I've always known, he's always tuned out politics. He's always said he believes politics and politicians are useless because they do nothing for us. They have all the power to do good for working people, like himself, and politicians just refuse to do it and therefore, he doesn't bother to show up and vote.

Also, I was surprised to learn he was more tuned in than I thought he was. He thinks Trump is a clown and is in disbelief that people actually support him. He knew about Trump's idea of tariffs and didn't like them. He has student loan debt that he applied to have forgiven when Joe Biden announced his student debt forgiveness program. He liked some of the things that was in Joe Biden's stimulus bill, like assistance and food stamps for working people. He saw that as helpful for people who are like him, working just trying to get by.

The part that keeps him away from politics is that all those things that he thought was good was taken away, and taken away, specifically because politicians wanted to take it away. Politicians gave him a taste of what good policy is like for working people and took it away because they don't really want to help the working class. He thought he was about to have his student loans forgiven just to have that yanked away. He got the letter that said they couldn't move forward with the debt forgiveness program. This just further reaffirms the belief that politicians (not a particular party, but politicians overall) are useless. Politicians gave working people checks and more food assistance only because COVID forced them to and not because they wanted to do it. Otherwise they would have happily let them slave away for pennies getting no help from politicians.

I hear all of this, and I place blame on Republicans... and that's because I know that Republicans sued the Biden administration to stop student loan debt forgiveness and the case was heard and decided by judges that were picked by Republicans, but he doesn't know that (I did tell him). I know that Republicans would have never voted for any bill that increased food assistance and given it out with less restriction if it were not for COVID. I know Democrats went further than that with Joe Biden without support from Republicans, but he doesn't know that.

In his view, politicians do nothing for people like him, people that work two jobs and just trying to get by.

[LiberalFighter]

1. It needs to be understood that politicians respond to voters.

Which means people need to vote. And make sure their views are heard.

[ramedy]

6. No they don't.

They respond to money. They care nothing about you.

[Envirogal]

14. Self fulfilling prophecy

There are a lot of democrats—local, state, and fed, that do care and amazing work for the PEOPLE and try their best but they don’t always get the support and have to battle through a divided government.

The citizens are the ones that disappoint because when the Pols do stick their necks out for the common person, the constituents don’t participate or pay attention and just complain without understanding how this all works.

We all get the government WE DESERVE in a representative democracy. As Thom Hartmann says “democracy is not a spectator sport”. Too many want to coast and be apathetic.

[Dem4life1234]

2. Much has been discussed about MAGAts

But not so much about those who don't exercise their right to vote.

I'm guessing he's a white male, that demographic doesn't have to fear for their lives and it's simply not high stakes for him.

[In It to Win It]

3. Black male

[Dem4life1234]

10. Interesting

I hate that mentality, everyone should vote. People's voice won't be heard if they don't vote. His ancestors died for the right of him to vote.

I have no respect for non voters. Matter of fact, they disgust me just as much as MAGAts.

[Envirogal]

16. THIS!!

He wanted his student debt forgive, YET didn’t help to flip the House, which is the body that decides how money is spent. Grrrrr.

Sure, it’s the “politicians” fault. When will the People ever take any responsibility in their role? Apathy is what the repugnantcants want so you don’t vote the Dems in.

[CrispyQ]

4. Your vote is your voice. It's that simple.

I get that he thinks his voice isn't heard, but a problem with people like your friend is they don't take into account the majorities you need in congress to really affect change. It's not just a majority, especially in the senate. And people often expect miracles in four years with a bare majority. And since they probably don't vote in their local elections either, if they have a repub state government, they might be denied access to federal programs.

My 5th grade social studies teacher told us, "Government impacts every aspect of your life, so when you kids turn 21, promise me that you'll vote!" Ha ha. I'm dating myself. But she was absolutely right. Government impacts every aspect of your life.

[In It to Win It]

7. I agree completely. Anytime I talk about voting, I usually start with "governing is a team sport"

One person (the President) is not enough to make the change you want happen.

There is a Congress. There is a Supreme Court and lower courts. They all have a say in the type of policy you get.

Obviously, we're in Florida... so I would say "if you wanted student loan forgiveness, you should have voted for people to send to Congress that agree with forgiving student loans." In this particular conversation, I didn't give my usual rant because I wanted to be a little more subtle and not sound like I'm preaching.

For example, when he talked about the student loan forgiveness, he blamed all politicians for it. I responded by saying "well, to give credit to Joe Biden, he tried to give you student loan forgiveness. Republicans fought him on it every step of the way" to paint the picture that not all politicians are useless. There are politicians that want to do good things, but they can't do it alone.

[1WorldHope]

5. Your friend is not alone in his beliefs.

I remember feeling that way when I was young during the Vietnam war. And many 40ish people and younger that I have spoken to feel that way now. After this whole fiasco I am inclined to agree. At least historically speaking . There have been a few who tried to do good, like FDR, JIMMY Carter, Obama and Biden. But, I think once they get in office they learn our government secrets and realize that there are some serious skeletons in our government closets. I think that is why, the asswipe is getting away with everything. He found out the secrets that Americans would be a ghast at, and he is blackmailing the government. Why else has he gotten away with everything, including an insurrection? That's my theory.

[usonian]

8. Hate politicians? The GOP has deliberately broken government from doing anything but passing tax cuts for the rich.

It doesn't work because the GOP doesn't WANT it to work and have fought anything progressive for freaking ever.

You want a dam? Cut taxes for the rich.
You want an army base? Create 100 more loopholes that only billionaires can use.

BROKEN SO YOU CAN BITCH,
and elect more republicans to "fix" the logjam.

And in helping themselves to the treasury, they "protect" slobs from Foreigners, Minorities, Women, Socialists, Gays and Liberals.

[SunSeeker]

9. A friend of mine is opposed to student loan forgiveness because he had to pay for his son's college.

He said he never got loan foregiveness, he had to save and pay for his kid's college, so he doesn't want anyone else to get help he never got.

Reminds me of an old Russian proverb about two neighbors:
Boris owned a cow and Ivor didn't. A fairy godmother visits Ivor and grants him any wish he desires. Overcome with the injustice of his 'cowless' life being so arduous, he implores the fairy godmother... "Kill Boris' cow!"

[Evolve Dammit]

13. I got mine (or I didn't get mine) so FU. Works both ways when you're self-righteous and petty. n/t

[SunSeeker]

15. Yes, he revealed a petty, hateful and destructive world view. Trump has really shown us who our friends are.

I mean, I have never had the fire department save my house. But I would still want them to be around to save other people's houses. Fires, both literally and figuratively, never stay in one place.

[Evolve Dammit]

20. Amen

[Shrek]

22. What if you and your neighbors both had a fire?

And the fire department saved their house but not yours?

You might feel a little resentful about funding the fire department.

[SunSeeker]

23. Of course. But the debt program was not available to anyone when he needed it.

So why should he be resentful now ?

Should the folks who got polio in the 1950s before the vaccine be resentful of the folks who were able to get the polio vaccine in the 1960s?

I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make...

[dlk]

11. What too many non-voters don't seem to realize

When they don’t vote they are essentially giving two votes to the person they don’t agree with; in this case Trump.

If non-voters cared actually enough about what happens to this country, they would get up off the sofa and vote.

Since they don’t care, they have no reason or right to complain when things go south.

[Evolve Dammit]

12. Really great post. Thanks for sharing, and your friend has every reason to feel that way. The dis-connect is real.

[SunSeeker]

24. No, he really doesn't have every reason for feeling that way.

The reason we don't have nice things is Republicans block them.

And Republicans are in office because good people don't vote.

This dipshit didn't realize that the reason he didn't get his student debt foregiven was because Republicans blocked it. He blamed it on Democrats. His solution? He'll keep sitting out elections so Republicans can keep blocking stuff we need. Fuck that shit. He is part of the problem.

[Evolve Dammit]

29. The poster puts the blame at the feet of the Repukes. His friend was saying that everything good had been taken away. It

is up to him to connect those dots. I think he just feels let down, which is a valid feeling. Not voting is a choice. A poor one in my estimation, but that is how turned off millions are turned off to the "process", by viewing the whole system as hopeless and negative.

[SunSeeker]

30. By voting for Republicans or not voting at all, people are perpetuating this broken system.

The poster's friend feels sorry for himself I'm sure, and sees himself as the victim, but he helped create this disaster by "turning off." It's time someone told this fool that.

[Evolve Dammit]

31. Half the US population doesn't vote and many feel the way he does.

[Meowmee]

17. Many don't vote in this country

Which is probably a part of the problem as well as being very uneducated. Justice Souter predicted what is happening now would happen because you have a largely uneducated or ignorant population.

One of my doctors told me a few years ago that he has not voted since Vietnam because of all of that. However, he told my brother recently that he was going to vote in this past election to stop the psycho.

The problem in this election is it looked like they got a lot of people to vote who had not voted before who voted for the psycho – see above an uneducated, and easily manipulated population spells disaster when you have a fascist demagogue who is enabled to rise to power.

[Frank D. Lincoln]

21. Excellent point.

There are millions of people who never vote but who, if they did vote, would vote Republican. People in that group do us a huge favor by not voting.

The trick for us is to get people who've never voted before to 1.) vote and 2.) vote for Democrats. But that is a lot harder than it sounds. From my own personal experience, I've never been able to accomplish even the former, much less the latter, no matter how much I tried.

[FakeNoose]

18. If you get a chance, you should mention to your friend that it was federal judges

... that nullified the law that Joe Biden put through for student loan forgiveness.

Federal judges (rightly or wrongly) have conservative and liberal views just like the rest of us do. They're not supposed to let those personal views affect their official rulings BUT we all know that it happens regularly. Especially the conservative judges that were appointed by Chump, and we're stuck with a lot of them. Way too many.

[In It to Win It]

19. I did.

[yardwork]

25. Democrats do a terrible job of selling our brand.

Apparently we need to scream and yell and make spectacles of ourselves in order to be heard. The media won't cover Democrats being calm and sensible. The billionaire-funded online propaganda destroys us, marketing-wise. Fox News, hate radio, and vacuous influencers won't tell the truth.

Apparently our candidates have to create scenes to be heard. Apparently Joe Biden should have had daily press conferences where he ranted and raved about Republican enemies of the people and promised Americans that only he could fix it.

Such are the realities of politics in these days of infotainment.

[Blues Heron]

26. He is in disbelief people supported trump; then he supports trump by not voting? Does he not get that?

Plenty of people have died for the right to vote he so blithely tosses in the proverbial trash can. Pathetic.

[Blue_Tires]

27. So he's just poorly informed...

He knows the WHAT, by not the WHY and HOW politics happens...

And I got no time for grown black folks who can't be bothered to vote 😔

[Captain Zero]

28. I wouldn't talk politics with him again, in fact...

after reading all the replies here, I'm not sure I'd talk to the guy at all again.
Why bother? He is a waste of your time, and his position hurts everyone including himself. That's a lot of negativities you don't need, and you are just frustrating yourself.