A case for Biden pardoning Trump

[thesquanderer]

Okay, I can't believe I'm even saying this, since my gut is so invested in the other direction, but with the talk of not just Manchin but even Clyburn also saying he could support Biden pardoning Trump, I had to give it some more thought, and here's what I realized:

A Biden pardon is irrelevant to Trump's legal issues. So then the question is whether there is any benefit--to Biden, the Democrats, or the country--to have Biden pardon him.

The reason I say a Biden pardon is irrelevant to Trump's legal issues is that the Federal cases (the only ones Biden can pardon him for) are going to go away regardless. Either he'll get his DOJ people to drop them, or he will pardon himself, or if all else somehow failed to sufficiently close the door, he'd resign the presidency near the very end of of his term (perhaps for "health reasons" ) and have Vance pardon him a la Ford. (Heck, he probably wouldn't even have to resign, merely create some time when Vance would be "acting president" via 25th amendment, section 3.) I think it is realistic to say that the federal cases are NOT going to happen, period.

That being the case, what good does a Biden pardon do for Trump? Not much. Save him a little effort maybe. Or maybe he'd find a way to score some rhetorical points off of it. But in the end, it provides no actual change to Trump's legal status. Therefore, I think the remaining question is what advantages it might have for Biden, the Dems, or the country. And with Trump's legal status not truly being at issue, I think the answer to that balance of advantages vs. drawbacks is not entirely clear, and could at least be worthy of further thought and analysis.

It has been said by many, for a long time, that the fact that the federal cases go away may have been the the over-riding reason Trump ran for another term in the first place. Since he did win, his federal legal jeopardy is essentially over, and a Biden pardon is moot from his perspective. So the remaining question is whether there might be some benefit from our perspective, and I"m not sure what the answer is. I'm keeping an open mind.

[yourout]

1. No way. The damage it would do to the Democratic base would take decades to recover from.

We're having a hard enough time getting people to come out and vote for us so the last thing we need to do is pardon Trump.

[IzzaNuDay]

61. Decades? How about a century?

This mess started 50 years ago when Ford pardoned Nixon. I don't seeing something like this resolved in my lifetime, and certainly not the US existing as a nation.

[Trueblue1968]

63. No pardon ever !!!!!! No no no no no..... #LockUpTrump

#LockUpTrump !!!!!


No pardon for Rump !!!!!!!

[Autumn]

2. No. Machin is stupid for even suggesting it. Fuck that.

[displacedvermoter]

3. Nothing justifies Biden pardoning Trump,

sorry.

[snowybirdie]

4. No

How can there be a resistance if Biden capitulates to the right wing? Trump is my enemy and we need to fight his regime

[claudette]

13. Rep. Crockett

was right. She said Americans are tired of Dems bringing a butter knife to a fight

[303squadron]

5. Not buying a pardon

Jack Smith’s cases can be reopened. We know that he did that on purpose.

At some point we still have hope for justice.

Also, fuck the Orange shit weasel!

[yorkster]

24. You're absolutely right. At least we have Jack Smith

and Judge Chutkan on record as leaving the cases open until Trump regime ends.
Hope the hell it's "only" 4 yrs.

No pardon for Trump.

[thesquanderer]

42. re: "Jack Smith's cases can be reopened."

For the reason I explained in the OP, I don't see Trump leaving office with any ability for those cases to be re-opened.He essentially has the power to shut them down permanently. That's why I said a pardon doesn't give him any legal relief that he won't end up having anyway.

[303squadron]

58. Joyce Vance would disagree

[thesquanderer]

60. Can you elaborate? Or point to a link?

I mean I know that, as of now, it is true (at least if whoever is running the DOJ in 2029 thinks it's a good idea)... but as I said in the OP, once Trump takes office, from what I can tell, he has numerous ways of assuring that that does not happen, which I described.

[Callie1979]

6. Only positive I see is it would embarrass Trump.

"There there; we're going to take away your convictions you poor soulless bastard"

[Paladin]

7. No. (nt)

[Tommy Carcetti]

8. Nope. Just nope.

And I seriously doubt Biden is considering such a thing.

[claudette]

9. Absolutely NOT

The orange felon belongs in prison.

[thesquanderer]

43. Yes he belongs in prison. But he's not going to end up in federal prison whether Biden pardons him or not,

that was pretty much my point. Our only real hope, I think, is that he can end up convicted of state charges, which he doesn't have the control over.

[Johonny]

10. Prosecuting yes, pardoning no.

[MineralMan]

11. Just FTS!

[thesquanderer]

44. What does FTS mean? n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

49. I'll take a guess at "Fuck This Shit!" (nt)

[MineralMan]

51. The T is for "that"

[Prairie Gates]

12. Biden could wrap a Trump pardon with a tranche of other pardons

For example, he can say "We have to move on from these issues. So, I am issuing a pardon for

1) Trump
2) Jack Smith and his entire staff, as well as any federal officer involved in any of his investigations
3) All members of the January 6 Committee and their entire staffs, and any witnesses who testified before the committee
4) All non-violent January 6 defendants not convicted of sedition or conspiracy or insurrection (he should consider reducing some of the sentences for non-violent ones, however)
5) Any federal officer involved in January 6 investigations or prosecutions
6) Any officer of any state or local court who has been involved in Trump investigations, election interference investigations, etc.

This would put Trump in a position where he would have to issue pardons to VIOLENT January 6 offenders, as well as those convicted of sedition, seditious conspiracy, or insurrection. It would also significantly limit the revenge prosecutions that are in the offing.

Biden should also continue to follow up with large numbers of pardons for those caught up in the drug war. Not everybody, of course (you don't want to release El Chapo), but large numbers of the otherwise decent citizens who got gaffled up by the draconian enforcement and sentencing mechanisms for which Biden himself was partly responsible.

[HereForTheParty]

14. Basically pardoning him after he's escaped justice

The MAGAts would just ridicule him.

[Gore1FL]

15. No. Biden repeating Ford's mistake should not be on the table. nt

[Ohioboy]

16. MAGA will see a pardon as proof that Trump never did anything wrong

MAGA wants to believe all of Trump's crimes are just a witch hunt. A pardon would be looked at as confirmation of their false narrative.

[thesquanderer]

45. I think they will believe the same, whether pardoned or not. (n/t)

[dweller]

17. 🗑

🤬


✌🏻

[travelingthrulife]

18. Worst possible move we could make. Trump and his flying monkeys will be

screeching that he has been 'exonerated' from the highest rooftops.

Again, haven't we just seen this movie...Russia, Russia, Russia.

[the_liberal_grandpa]

19. That will be the day that I stop supporting Dems

No donations and no votes.

I would be done with them

[ColinC]

20. It would make the narrative of his crimes being a Democratic witch hunt pretty hard to sustain

It could also undermine the victim stance that Trump has used to a huge success...


There are a lot of bad things about this idea too though.

[bucolic_frolic]

21. For the good of the country

a pardon wrapped around immediate resignation should be considered. If you're going to give something, get something.

[thesquanderer]

46. re: "If you're going to give something, get something."

While I like your idea, my premise is kind of based on the fact that granting a pardon doesn't actually give him anything (i.e. it gives him nothing he wouldn't end up having anyway).

[crud]

22. It could be written

in such a way, including all the charges and evidence of guilt. Spell out all the crimes for which he is being pardoned. Make it a damning document for the ages. He's already gonna get off. Folks need to know what he did.

[LW1977]

23. Manchin was always Republican lite

An elephant in donkey’s clothing.

[Think. Again.]

55. lite?

[Celerity]

57. ...

[Think. Again.]

59. wow, I've never seen those!

[sinkingfeeling]

25. There is no case for pardoning him.

[Charging Triceratops]

26. No. NO. NO

Pardoning Trump would be an insane act.

[berksdem]

27. HELL NO

[CrispyQ]

28. It would be like kissing the ring. I would change my dem affiliation immediately if he did that.

No, no, no, no, no. Bad idea!!

[Silent Type]

29. At this point it doesn't make much difference, trump is free and will resume office in January. While I agree

trump deserved charges and trials, it didn't help us at the polls. In fact, one could make a case there was a backlash against all the trials/charges.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

30. Show NO QUARTER to DonOLD tRump!

As far as the Federal charges are concerned and his hatred of all things Biden Family and Democrats. NO PARDON. He is NOT WORTHY, period! No remorse, empathy, compassion, or admission of Guilt.

As for the State of New York and Georgia! Kemp might pardon tRump for RICO charges if it ever comes to trial. But in New York? NO WAY will Gov. Kathy Hocul pardon him at the State level.

[Blues Heron]

31. If TSF steps down first.

[Groundhawg]

32. Just no.

[Ping Tung]

33. Is this another example of The Art of the Deal? If so, what do we get?

Answer: Screwed again.

“The object of civil society is justice, not truth, virtue, wealth, knowledge, glory or power. Justice is followed by equality and liberty.” Lord Acton

[ZonkerHarris]

34. Go ahead if you never want people voting for a Democrat again, ever.

[Scrivener7]

35. No.

[EnergizedLib]

36. Not a chance

Let the felon try to pardon himself. He’s been enabled and gotten away with everything. Let us not be the ones to contribute to the great miscarriage of justice in our country.

[jalan48]

37. I thought Trump was an existential threat to Democracy and also a Fascist. That's what we were told anyway.

So now we want to pardon this man? This Fascist and existential threat to Democracy? It makes it look like we only have one political party in this country with two wings.

[AKwannabe]

38. Notice that this post received ZERO RECS

Fuck pardoning tRump!

Fuck that fuck that fuck that!

[thesquanderer]

62. I kind of expected this to sink like a stone, but I wonder if I may have set some sort of record...

... having over 60 replies without a single Rec!

Though it does seem that some replied without having read the actual post. (Which, sadly, is not exactly rare 'round these parts!)

[Emile]

39. You want them calling us Weak on Crime?

Not me.

[Solly Mack]

40. If those with power, who made a point of telling the world how dangerous Trump is, surrender

then why should those without power bother at all? Why should anyone fight for those who would only surrender the fight?

[tenderfoot]

41. I'm glad this OP is getting flamed

eom

[Meowmee]

47. Never

[flvegan]

48. Well, it's a terrible case.

Pardon a traitor? Someone who may be seeking to end democracy? No thanks.

Then there's the optics. "Beta Biden Pardons Alpha DJT!" -Rogan, probably

[standingtall]

50. Absolutely not

and I could've swore the crimes Trump has been convicted of are State crimes in which I also could've swore were outside of the pardoning power of the President.

[thesquanderer]

53. Correct. That was in my OP as well. He can only be pardoned for federal crimes...

...which he's not going to be convicted of anyway (for reasons discussed), which is why Biden granting him a pardon doesn't really get him any legal relief he won't be getting anyway. Either way, he can still be prosecuted for state crimes.

[ecstatic]

52. the entire idea is disgusting. nt

[Owl]

54. NO!

[Cirsium]

56. Here we go

I guess we wouldn't want to question Clyburn's judgement, so I guess we will have to question all of ours.