So is vigilantism now the preferred way of making a statement or enacting change?

[milestogo]

Because it seems to me to be a very flawed process. The shooter will have his day in court and will have his rights- but the dead man will not.

[leftstreet]

1. One person does this, you assume it's widespread?

I must have missed all the news headlines

[milestogo]

2. It seems to be popular here on DU.

[leftstreet]

7. It's hugely "popular" across most social media right now

So what?

[Scrivener7]

23. Are you saying you're seeing lots of DUers going out and shooting people? Do tell. Otherwise, if you're

just equating talking about the killing and actually killing, you're being ridiculous.

[Redleg]

24. From my perspective it is shockingly popular here at DU

I think I can understand the sentiment behind it, but damn if it doesn't give me the chills. Believe me, when I hear assholes like Steve Bannon or Kash Patel running their fucking mouths I do briefly regret having sold my .270 deer rifle. Then the anger subsides and I realize how stupid it is to do such a thing, even if I feel they have it coming and I know the legal system won't bring them to justice.

I think many of us are running a bit hot here, blowing off steam that has been building for a few years now. Perhaps some of us have been screwed by health insurance companies. I get the anger, I get the desire for justice.

[Irish_Dem]

3. American judges have made it clear that the law does not apply to rich white males.

American politicians enact laws which make the
murder, death, torture, injury, pain, suffering, theft,
financial ruin of American citizens perfectly legal.

So in this kind of environment people yearn for
some sort of justice, and unfortunately street
justice is what they are left with.

I may not agree with it, but I understand it.

[Happy Hoosier]

4. Preferred? No. Understandable? Yes, IMO.

The dead man's crimes were all legal. Which is why the vigilanteism is understandable... some people can only take so much before they break.

[BannonsLiver]

5. Who said that?

[Coventina]

6. Boo-fucking-hoo.

How many people are dead because of him, what day in court did they get?

[sarisataka]

8. I would like to say no

but the best I can say is maybe not the preferred way.

Yet

But the day is young...

[tenderfoot]

9. Is jailing those that can't pay their medical debt the preferred method of collection?

Asking for a friend.

[themaguffin]

10. Who said that? BTW, this will change nothing with that corporation.

[prodigitalson]

11. one isolated event equals preferred way?

[Voltaire2]

12. Understanding and empathizing with somebody's motives is not the same as endorsing their actions.

My assumption, for now, is that the shooter was a victim of UHC. I view this as similar to an abused spouse killing their abuser. Sure, it's wrong, but it is also quite understandable.

[yardwork]

35. I think a number of us are feeling some empathy.

I've surprised myself by finding a certain common ground with Trump voters. A lot of them appear to have voted for Trump out of frustration, rage, and despair. A number of DUers are expressing frustration, rage and despair and it's causing them to express a lack of.... grief.... for this victim. Some even view the shooter as a folk hero. These impulses - voting for Trump to burn it all down and supporting a vigilante killer - stem from the same kind of emotional thinking.

I'm not in favor of vigilante justice or assassinations, but they are age-old human impulses when people are pushed beyond their limits.

Maybe we can use this incident to reflect. The world is really screwed up and solutions seem sparse. Is it any wonder that people are acting out.

[Voltaire2]

36. the 'system' is broken. It isn't working for a lot of people.

Centrist political parties running as defenders of the system are holding a losing hand.

[yardwork]

40. That is becoming more and more apparent.

The problem is that the people voters support to make radical change will be lousy governors.

[BlueTsunami2018]

13. People are getting fed up with the bullshit.

If things get to the point where we have to fight for what we need, it’s not going to be a bloodless affair. There’s no place for shrinking violets in a revolution.

[Ping Tung]

14. Violence is the last resort of the incompetent. Isaac Asimov

If it was murder the shooter will be tried. If guilty he will be punished. If not guilty his fanclub can buy him a beer and slap him on the back.

[BannonsLiver]

32. Asimov was a serial sexual harasser so I'm not sure everyone holds him in the same regard as you do.

[Ping Tung]

38. Did he go to trial?

I have no "regard" for Asimov. But I agree with his statement on violence.

If the shooter here is captured he will go to trial and a jury or judge will cause him to face the consequences of his murder if he's found guilty.

If he's sentenced to death I'll still agree with Asimov's statement about incompetence as concerns the judge or jury..

[intheflow]

42. ""Violence is the language of the unheard." - MLK, Jr.

[2 Meow Momma]

15. Probably a last resort for a few that feel powerless to change things any other way. nt

[Ping Tung]

39. I agree. But, his act Will save no lives. The CEO will be replaced by another moneymaker.

The best way to change a rotten system is by enforcing the laws or changing them to be more humane.

[Silent Type]

16. Appears so. Maybe the government ought to get it's act together and enact a viable healthcare system

that doesn't depend on private insurers. Hell, even original Medicare at inception used private insurers to administer the program in the 60 years since every major "advancement" included private insurers, even the ACA/Obamacare.

Then there is this:

Gallop Poll 2023

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- A 57% majority of U.S. adults believe that the federal government should ensure all Americans have healthcare coverage. Yet nearly as many, 53%, prefer that the U.S. healthcare system be based on private insurance rather than run by the government. These findings are in line with recent attitudes about the government’s involvement in the healthcare system, which have been relatively steady since 2015.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/468401/majority-say-gov-ensure-healthcare.aspx

[Think. Again.]

17. People kill people that they're made at all the time...

What make you think it's vigilantism or that it's new?

[LearnedHand]

18. Don't mistake enjoying a little Schadenfreude for support for vigilantism

The entire nation is engaging in some gallows humor about this man's death. It may be unlovely, but it also tells us we're not alone in wanting to see the end of unregulated vulture capitalism.

[Blue_Tires]

19. First of all, you're 100% correct

Second of all, it doesn't change the fact a lot of us are extremely pissed off since the election and truly believe now that the only justice any of us are going to get is the justice we create for ourselves. (And I'll stop here before I get this post hidden for rulebreaking)

[milestogo]

20. I've watched some westerns set in 19th century America

and sometimes the whole town would go after a person who had committed a murder. Usually they got it right, but in those days it just wasn't a very tight system. I can definitely see how people got caught up in vigilantism, because the system of laws just wasn't workable yet.

I'm not saying its workable now. But surely there are more options than stalking someone and gunning them down. Because once it starts, this kind of behavior keeps spreading and never ends.

[Blue_Tires]

22. I'm not disagreeing with you

I believe in law and we're supposed to be a nation of laws... But when the angry orange idiot gets away with literally everything because he owns the federal judges and the USSC has officially said nothing he does is illegal, we're no longer citizens with a president, we're subjects living under a king. The law is now officially whatever Donnie declares it to be.

And if the leader of the free world (along with his ever-increasing bandwagon of cronies) no longer abides by any laws, why should any of the rest of us?

[LearnedHand]

30. No one here is advocating for vigilantism

We're all just nodding our heads in understanding how a person could be driven to it when it comes to dealing with medical insurance.

[Asa13]

21. Its time to acknowledge we are in a fight and stop this moral high ground crap

The right, Christians, corporations declared war on the American people and it's time to start treating it like the fight it is.

[alarimer]

25. Nothing else seems to work.

Even the ACA was only nibbling around the edges of what is truly needed.

We do not actually know the motive at this time anyway. It's just that the system lets so many people down (kills them in fact) that it was only a matter of time.

But nothing ever seems to change, no matter the lofty promises made by politicians.

[CrispyQ]

26. I've not read anyone condoning murder.

As for grave dancing? If you don't want people to dance when you die, then live the kind of life where people don't want to dance when you die.

[DBoon]

27. Lesson from history: The attempted murder of Henry Clay Frick

In 1892, during the Homestead strike, anarchist Alexander Berkman attempted to assassinate Frick. On July 23, Berkman, armed with a revolver and a sharpened steel file, entered Frick's office in downtown Pittsburgh
...
Frick was back at work within a week; Berkman was charged and found guilty of attempted murder. Berkman's actions in planning the assassination clearly indicated a premeditated intent to kill, and he was sentenced to 22 years in prison.[5] Negative publicity from the attempted assassination resulted in the collapse of the strike.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Clay_Frick (my bolding)

So, the target survived, Berkman spent a long time in prison, and the strike collapsed.

The violent history of the American labor movement has some lessons for the 21st century. One is that individual acts of terrorism not only fail but also discredit the overall cause.

[onecaliberal]

28. The dead man made deliberate decisions that killed a lot of people on the daily.

Actions have consequences. I have no fucks to give.

[Basso8vb]

29. Broad-brush straw man argument.

[Deep State Witch]

33. Rich Man, Poor Man

I'm enjoying the schadenfreude of a rich health care executive getting offed. That doesn't mean that I condone murder. However, if the victim was a poor, unknown POC who was shot in the back in a bad part of town, would people's reactions be different? Mostly it would be, "too bad, but it's a day ending in Y in (insert area here)." I feel bad for Mr. Thompson's wife and kids, but they will survive without having to start a GoFundMe to cover his funeral expenses.

[maxrandb]

34. Not the "preferred" way, but it appears to be electorally beneficial to Retrumplicans

Not sure how we put the violence genie back in the bottle, after America proved violence is a winning strategy.

[Trenzalore]

37. Being happy someone is dead

Doesn't necessarily mean you endorse how they died

[Conjuay]

41. The dead man made life choices also.

And again, fuck him.

[Bonx]

43. It's ok to be indiffferent to vigilantism (or even pleased) if you think the person was bad

It's really not. I judge people on this, just like with grocery carts.

[GenThePerservering]

44. ANOTHER thread about this? nt