I just found out a friend pays 14000 a year for HCI for 3 people !!!!

[uponit7771]

Last edited Sat Dec 7, 2024, 12:11 AM - Edit history (2)

I just found out a friend pays 14000 a year for HCI for 3 people !!!!

THAT'S A WHOLE DAMN MORTGAGE WHERE HE LIVES !!

That's not counting what his employer pays !!!

Why the hell isn't corporate America working with their employees to get the cost down ?!

Its not going to get any cheaper either, its not like HCI Corps are going to lower the price 25% next year !!!


Jus ... damn


EDIT: This is total premiums plus deductible which his family uses every year and they are young.

[Irish_Dem]

1. Billionaires cannot get richer if prices go down.

[LexVegas]

2. That has to be a cadillac plan. My high deductible plan is about $1000 a year for a family of 4. nt

[Happy Hoosier]

4. What kind of coverage do you get for that? That's peanuts, really.

What is your deductible? What's your coverage?

[LexVegas]

10. Its a high deductible plan, so the coverage kicks in at 80 / 20 after individual and family deductibles.

We also have a PPO plan available, but it is significantly more. On the order of $400 / month. Still not even close to the OPs friend.

[uponit7771]

13. There are corps who pay a lot more than others

[uponit7771]

14. delete

[uponit7771]

8. Not the Cadillac plan, he works for large corp

[LexVegas]

12. I work for a very large multinational corporation. nt

[uponit7771]

17. Right, some corps put more into employ HCI than others no doubt

[LexVegas]

27. That is certainly true. nt

[nilram]

55. But what's your deductible? Mine's 12000, so practically the same as

a 14000 premium, except that HD plans have the option of avoiding some taxes with a health savings account.

[Happy Hoosier]

3. Mine is just a little less....

Factor in deductible, and I have to pay abour $16,000 to get any significant benefit.

[ForgedCrank]

5. Same here,

we are at about 11K in premiums annually for family of 4, not counting the 8K deductible.
15 years ago, it was affordable, now it's hardly worth it.
May as well take the risk at this point, and I've been considering it.

[uponit7771]

15. WOW !!! That's not counting what the corporation pays !! People are being gouged and they're not millionaires

[El-Capitan]

6. My ACA insurance-for-one is about $13,200 per year.

About 88% of that is paid by the ACA, and there are still plenty of co-pays and deductibles.

Obamacare is very expensive for the country, which is one of the reasons why "they" want to get rid of it.

Of course, the problem is not the ACA. The problem is the cost of having middleman private insurance companies. The ACA is a big band-aid that is put over the problem.

[uponit7771]

9. WTF ?!!??! "cost of having middleman private" 👈🏾👈🏾👈🏾 THIS !!!

[spooky3]

31. And many specialists are very expensive. For example, ortho

Surgeons can often earn a million a year.

[surfered]

7. My wife and I pay $10,548 a year for Medicare, supplemental, and prescription coverage

[uponit7771]

11. Does that count deductible? Even if it did that's freakin a lot !! They're are gouging

[moonscape]

21. I'm 74 and pay just under 500/month

for Medicare and in my case it's a deal. I have cancer, have had many surgeries, constant scans, many medical appts/month with therapies and have had no deductible and no co-pays - just premiums. No denials, no pre-authorization, easy peasy and safe.

Crazy that I call it a ‘deal’ when I live on small SS and savings, but in this climate it is. If they get rid of Original Medicare I am screwed.

[pnwmom]

46. And the crazy part is the government pays the Advantage insurers more per person than the Gov. spends on Original.

If the R's force everyone on Advantage it will cost more ... till they start cutting benefits, once they control the market.

[moonscape]

56. Exactly. Original Medicare is the

only thing somewhat controlling them. As soon as they get it out of the picture it’s free-wheelin’ unfettered abuse time.

[Dave says]

87. Me too, Moonscape

[surfered]

22. You are correct. There are still deductibles.

[Silent Type]

30. I don't think people realize how expensive Medigap and drug plans are, especially as one ages.

I believe upfront premium costs and maybe a $1000 or $2000 in dental, vision, maybe groceries, etc., is the main reason most people choose Medicare Advantage, even with its limitations.

It sucks, but until Congress gets off its ass and does something, this is the choice people have to make.

Maybe this week's events will rekindle some kind of interest in a rational healthcare system. But, darn sure not holding my breath waiting for them.

When polls show 53% of Americans prefer private insurance, it's tough to get anything done without it.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/468401/majority-say-gov-ensure-healthcare.aspx

[ProfessorGAC]

59. We're In That Ballpark

Our Medicare premiums are higher than most because of hitting annual income thresholds.
But, our supplemental & PDP premiums are pretty typical. Maybe on the high side of typical.
All of our stuff is autopsy, so I'd have to check that account to add everything up. But, I'd guess we're really close to what you describe.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

67. What! I only pay 3,216.

[surfered]

71. That's the total bit both of us

[Jacson6]

16. Until the majority of US citizens wake up to a Medicare for all program this will continue.

Medicare would not be free. A flat 5% tax on all income no matter the source for everyone & corp. where the recipient would pay 20% of the health care charges would be a fair system.

I lived in Europe 35 years ago and their system worked great for the people there. I never heard one European complain about paying a flat tax to get health care with a deductible. They were thrilled with the System. I never heard of a revolt or demonstration in Canada for there Medicare type system.


"Give me Health Care that will bankrupt me and destroy my credit!", exclaimed the Canadian citizens. NOT!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

18. "Why the hell isn't corporate America working with their employers to get the cost down ?!"

Why would they?

[uponit7771]

24. yep, just push it onto their employees ... jus damn

[EdmondDantes_]

29. Because most of them pay a larger part than their employees?

Because cheaper insurance would let them have better insurance which would be a draw for employees.

Paying for healthcare is complicated because healthcare is skilled labor intensive with little potential gains in efficiency available in terms of automation.

[Arger68]

19. I paid $5892 this year for the lowest

cost plan on the exchange. $7500 deductible with max $9300 out of pocket. That is after my company kicked in $325 per month, so my total premium is $816 per month, or $9792 for the year. Basically it costs me $13,392 out of pocket before insurance kicks in.

[uponit7771]

20. OMFG !!! So my friend is getting it cheap !!

[Arger68]

23. Age makes a huge difference.

I'm 56 so mine has went up a lot the last few years

[Hotler]

25. Universal health care would provide workers the freedom to leave shitty jobs and/or managers without the

fear of losing coverage. That would empower the worker and corporate America doesn't like that. That's way they don't like unions.

[beaglelover]

26. Need more information. How much are the premiums, annual deductible, and out of pocket maximums?

Is the figure of $14,000 including all three? Also are the deducibles for in-network vs out-of-network the same or different?

[uponit7771]

28. Not all 3 just premiums and deductible per year, hell ... its even higher with copays and medicines. ... Damn

[beaglelover]

35. Thanks. I just checked my plan for next year and it's cost. I'm still working for a large entertainment company.

This is the cost to cover me and my husband and includes prescription drugs. The health plan is a PPO with Aetna.

Premiums that I pay from my paycheck - $6,280 annually
In Network Deductible - $1,700 annually (the amount we have to pay before the plan will begin to co share in the costs)
In Network Out of Pocket Max - $10,000 annually (the $1,700 is included in this number)

So, total out of pocket for the year will be $16,280, if we use a lot of health care during the year. At our advancing ages that is becoming more and more a liklihood.

The out of network deductibles and out of pocket maxes are slightly higher but we generally only see in network doctors.

Prescription drugs have copays but they are rarely over $15 per refill.

[spooky3]

32. The US health care costs are about DOUBLE those of the second most

Expensive country’s (Switzerland).

Companies charge several times more in the US for the same prescriptions you can get in Germany, France, Japan, etc. because we let them.

Google it and you will see the problem.

[uponit7771]

37. I think when people see the monthly bill will get more attention, this is crazy

[spooky3]

43. I'm just offering an explanation as to why their bills are so high

and that there is no need for them to be.

[markie]

33. I was paying that

10 years ago, for myself and kids... and still had to fight for coverage

edit to add... now paying for myself, about $7000... medicare + supplemental

[MontanaMama]

34. I pay $2080 per month for my family of 3.

This is a bronze plan. We have a deductible of $8050 per person with a max out of pocket of $16,100 for the family. It isn’t sustainable and this costs more than my mortgage and all utilities. I am not eligible for tax credits or other assistance. There are only two companies offering plans to self employed people in Montana (Pacific Source and BCBSH of MT) and one of them prices the policies so far out of reach that they can’t be considered.

[uponit7771]

38. JUST DAMN !!! These are mortgages for nice houses were they live.

[DFW]

36. That's cheap for Germany

When I moved my residence here, I was quoted $35,000 a year by a major German health insurer, and just for me. That was in 2011, probably a lot more now.

[uponit7771]

40. Germany has universal health care, that seems like a lot for them

[Silent Type]

44. I'd take it, but how many Democrats or Republicans will tell voters their taxes will increase by 7.5% and their

employers have to match that? I get voters should be happy, but gonna take some work to convince trumpsters and some Democrats.

"Employers and their employees pay for most of the health care system in Germany through premiums. All workers contribute about 7.5 percent of their salary into a public health insurance pool. Employers match that 7.5 percent contribution."

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/germany-s-health-care-system-model-u-s-n1024491

One thing that kind of bothers me about Germany is that higher income people can buy private insurance that supposedly reduces waittimes, etc. That bothers me, but the better off here get similar priviledges. Point is, I'd take the public plan, even if I have to watch a Matt Gaetz type get care first.

Hope someone from Germany posts comments. It's hard enough understanding healthcare financing in USA, much less a foreign country.

https://hallogermany.com/blog/health-insurance-public-vs-private

[uponit7771]

45. If they attach it to the PHCI cost ... prolly all of them. When monthly PCHI premiums are as large as mortgages I think

... people will listen if you say you'll half it without deductibles.

[DFW]

62. See my post #57 just below

Germany has a very complicated system of health insurance, depending on your legal and economic status. If your income is in Germany, above a certain income level, they will even push out of the public insurance and into the "Privat" or private insurance. It is rare that someone comes into that category as late as I did (age 59.5), so their premiums are usually lower, and it is absolutely correct that those people get preferred care. I'd be dead by now if they didn't. Although I am not one of those on German private insurance, I am forced to pay up front, and so their bookkeeping treats me as if I were.

April 24, 2004, Fiesole, Italy: I was walking uphill outside of Florence with my wife when I felt a bit out of breath and some twinges in my left shoulder. I know that these could be early warning signs of an impending heart attack, so when we got home on the 26th, I looked up the addresses of some cardiologists in our town outside of Düsseldorf. I called on Monday, and said I thought I might have a problem and wanted to be examined. They said, well they had an opening in two months. Right, that wouldn't even be in time for my funeral if my suspicions were correct. But then, I remembered: Germany. I said I was from the USA and just passing through, and I would pay cash. OH! well, in THAT case, could I come in at 5:15 that afternoon? I could, and did. The doc did an EKG and said there was definitely something there, and could I please come in on Wednesday for an echo stress test? I said sure.

So, two days later, I went in for an echo stress test, which he broke off halfway through and said in my office NOW. He called up to a major cardiac clinic in Essen (half an hour away) and told me get up there NOW. Not this weekend, not tomorrow, immediately. So I did, and they put me in a wheel chair at the entrance. I said isn't this being a little dramatic? They said, NO, and SIT DOWN. The next morning the big cardiac surgeon came in, looked at my chart, and said clear everything, this guy comes on at noon. They took me down, gave me the local anasthetic in my leg, punctured my artery ansd slid in the catheter. The cardiologist looked at the monitor and started calling for stents. After they went in without a problem, he told me, I was the luckiest guy in Europe that day. He played back the tape and showed me that I had two forward coronary arteries 99% blocked. I felt no discomfort due to my low blood pressure, which meant I could have toppled over dead from a heart attack at any second with no warning. I count April 29th as my second birthday. I was there for 3 days. My bill came to maybe $10,000. I was told, when I showed the bill to my employer's accountants (who speak German) that in the USA, it would probably have been anywhere from three to five times that much. Of course the claim was denied by either United or Blue Cross, I forgot which it was at the time. But when I compare the $35,000 the Germany wanted per year, I figured I got off cheap. But I DID have to pay it. Universal health care? That's a web-site-promoted myth that keeps coming back to make the rounds. In Germany, you can put that next to fairy tales from the Brothers Grimm.

[DFW]

57. Germany has WHAT???

Try that again? Who in the world told you that??

That sounds like some myth from a debunked Bernie Sanders wannabe website from 2016. A left-leaning version of Fox "News" or some such.

I have lived here in Germany for many years, speak the language fluently, and my wife is a German social worker, part of whose job it was to help out some of the hundreds of thousands of Germans who have no health insurance at all. For that matter, she was one of them for about five years. Between the time she took early retirement at age 60 due to mobbing at work and nasty health problems, and when she turned 65, when German Medicare kicked in, I had to buy a monthly Germany version of COBRA for her (about €500-600 a month). Otherwise, she would have been one of those several hundred thousand Germans with no health insurance.

Now, a few hundred thousand is NOTHING against the millions that would have been in the USA. But the fact is that Germany has a health insurance system like a patchwork quilt, and everyone has to see where they fit in (or don't). As a legal resident foreigner whose job (and pay) was in the USA, I was told to furnish US health insurance or get German health insurance, which, in my situation (no German employer), was only available from one of the private companies here. I went to apply and get a quote. I had to fill out the questionnaire, and list all my pre-existing conditions. The quote came back at about $35,000 a year. The government did, however, accept my Blue Cross as health insurance, not knowing that they denied just about everything (unlike United which denied absolutely everything). But these are German bureaucrats, next to the French (no one beats the French), the ultimate paper pushers. They wanted proof of health insurance, I showed them my "proof" of health insurance. OK, fine. Next line, please.

[uponit7771]

63. Google, "does germany have universal healthcare"

[DFW]

65. As Abraham Lincoln said

“Don’t trust everything you read on the internet.”

I live here, speak the language, am married to a German social worker whose job it was for decades to work with people who the system had let down.

Google all you want, but reality here in Germany beats Google every time. If your own decades-long personal experience here says something different, I’ll listen, but no tell-me-what-I-want-to-hear website takes precedent over the reality that 80 million Germans living here experience every day.

[uponit7771]

68. "Google all you want"... Let's be far removed from how they sound. If you have a counter it's...

... beat to post the counter information than own opinion.

I searched further in the results page and found this ...

https://www.germany-visa.org/insurances-germany/health-insurance/

Even it says it's a universal health care system.

Maybe it's the semantics but I didn't say it was single payer for instance

[DFW]

70. It's still not universal.

My wife wouldn’t have been working with Germans with no health insurance if everybody had it. For that matter, I wouldn’t have had to pay €7000 a year for her insurance if it were universal. Universal means in my dictionary that everyone here has health insurance. Reality is that several hundred thousand do not. Reality is not a government website. It is what real people here experience and live with. Learn German, come here and live with real people. THEN tell me you know what’s going on here. If, in your book, “universal” means everyone here has access to health insurance, that is true—IN THEORY. But you have to have the money for it, go for it. For $35000 a year, I could have had German health insurance, too. It’s like saying that in the USA, there is “universal access” to living in a mansion in Beverly Hills. IF you have the cash, yes, you do. It’s the same in Germany with health care. No one with the necessary wealth will lack for it.

[highplainsdem]

72. Why so expensive? EDIT - Never mind. I just saw your other replies explaining.

[haele]

39. I've got good Federal Health Insurance for four...almost $17k annually.

And we really need it, monthly doctor and therapist visits, expensive prescriptions just to keep two of us functional.
Luckily, the deductables aren't that high; $3k per person, $10k for family. I also have access to a FSA of $3300.

Total premium - around $17k including dental and vision. Add to it the out of pocket "co-pays and co-insurance" beyond the deductable that go over the FSA - around another $4k. So my household annual medical costs are around $24/25k yearly on average.

That's between 1/4 to 1/3 of my base pay. Spouse gets SSDI, so that's an added bit over $12k a year to the household budget.

Luckily, being a Federal Employee, I do get a local subsidy for living in a high cost of living area - and that almost covers the equivalent of the annual Insurance Premiums, FSA, and our of pocket.

That's the big plus to working for the Feds in Southern California.

I used to work as a contractor technically "making more" per hour than baseline Fed wage rates, but my out of pocket medical and insurance costs at the time had much more impact on the household income. Mac and cheese/Ramen dinner at the end of pay period levels more.

Ya, I could go with cheaper insurance but that $4/5k or so savings would result in reduced services that would adversely affect my ability to continue working and my spouse's ability to function, as our household income is just over the ACA subsidy levels as it stands now.

IME, the cost of Medical Services in the US have sucked the life and future wealth out of families with any sort of chronic condition that don't make well over six figures for at least a generation.

And it's not getting any easier. Getting actual health care is like trying to take out a home repair loan -
- only this time, instead of a lender looking at your Credit Score, the Insurance Company and Health Providers look at some subjective Health Score before they decide if you get the appropriate treatment for your issue or if you can't afford the out of pocket, you just get a bandaid slapped on and painkillers to ease your passing.

Haele

[ScratchCat]

41. Wow, just read through this

And see people having to pay crazy rates. And I thought mine was bad...

I am here in Florida. Just under 50, single, self-employed. I finally cancelled my insurance last year which had gotten to $5,000 per year with $10,000 deductibles. No cheaper plan was available. I haven't been to a doctor since I was 21, I have obviously never filed a claim but with $10,000 deductibles, there is nothing I can reasonably go to a doctor for and have it covered. I have elbow, shoulder, knee and back issues which the treatment would cost less than the deductible and I would be stuck paying for it all plus the premiums. I can't give away that much money to get back absolutely nothing in benefit.

[uponit7771]

42. "absolutely nothing in benefit."👈🏾👈🏾👈🏾

[gerryatwork]

47. When I retired almost 7 years ago

my boss was paying $30,000 for his family (of 4) plan. Of course it was top of the top of the line. But still. Probably $40,000 today. Even though the company paid the plan, there were only 2 partners (the other also paid $30,000) so it was basically coming out of their pockets. Of course each made about a million a year. Which equaled about 3% of their income.

[progressoid]

48. Trump will fix it

[uponit7771]

51. RIGHT !!! AKA Make it worse, if Trump gets Real Wage Index back to 2019 Trajectory in a year we'll have a hard time with

... midterms but the chances he'll do that with his policies is little to none and that includes PHCI mortgage payments

[tenderfoot]

49. That's awful but it doesn't excuse progressives celebrating one's death...

even though no one is actually doing that.

[uponit7771]

50. Most people aren't celebrating just hard to have sympathy for the banality of evil oozing out of PHCI CEOs

[DFW]

74. This is spot on

No one is celebrating a fatal shooting in Manhattan. However, expressing an understanding for how someone could be driven to such a deed is, I think, a reasonable sentiment.

Not to subscribe to any conspiracy theories, but if the assessment of the fancy weapon and expensive (and possibly illegal?) silencer seen in the photos is accurate, there might yet be more to this killing than just the desperate act of an emotionally distressed survivor. I’m waiting to hear if there is any follow up to that aspect.

[Groundhawg]

52. Working with employers will never lower costs.

Too many hands touch the product. Let's keep our healthcare between me and my Dr. No employer, no government.

[Drum]

53. Why are you so astonished?

Are you living without any coverage? Or would you like to point us toward what you use… something more ideal, financially?

[uponit7771]

54. Cause his age and works for large corp, thought that would insulate his family from high PCHI cost. Not so much

[Meowmee]

58. I pay nearly that for myself!

It's still too much though. And still a few years back my ins got to deny a huge hospital stay. The hospital never billed me because they knew I had a potential lawsuit for negligence against them. I should have sued them anyway.

[dawg]

60. Mine's going to $48,000 for four individuals.

Small group employer plan.

I could probably get a better deal by paying for four separate ACA policies, but some of us have pre-existing conditions, and if the ACA gets repealed, the pre-ACA laws protecting people on employer plans might be the only things keeping us insurable.

[uponit7771]

64. ... ah, and Benedict Donald isn't going to make PHCI any cheaper

[Ishoutandscream2]

75. Fucking ridiculous.

Nt

[dawg]

78. Don't I know it.

I dont' even get a paycheck from my business anymore. I'm just working to cover the healthcare costs.

On paper, I'm pretty rich. But there's reasons why I drive a 14 year-old car. (And me being cheap is not one of them!)

[Stinky The Clown]

61. There was a time long before we got got Medicare, where we $29k for two of us.

Thanks to Obama for ending that pre-existing conditions bullshit.

[pansypoo53219]

66. butbutbut its better than socialism!

[MissB]

69. My health care plan is a bargain

I’d love to retire early- Dh retired a year ago- but I’m providing health insurance coverage for us.

For years I’ve covered my four family members with these costs. Kids have aged out and are on their own, so now it’s just Dh and I. But the cost isn’t based on how many kids I have, it’s just simply the cost for the family plan from my employer. I’ve always chosen the most expensive plan with my employer because my Dh prefers his doctor, and then when the kids went off to college out of state this was the only plan that would cover them.

$105 a month for medical insurance, with a $250 per person /$750 total family deductible. Out of pocket max $2000 per person/$6,000 per family.

I’m not exactly eager to give that up at this point. I’m aware of how good I have it with respect to medical insurance.

[BlueTsunami2018]

73. I pay 26% of my gross wages for healthcare.

$14k would be a bargain.

[uponit7771]

76. 😲😲😲 ... and people turned down the public option

[Arazi]

90. Joe Lieberman killed the public option

Everyone else wanted it but if Obama was going to get anything he needed that old fool onboard. Lieberman wouldn’t budge so the public option got nixed

[LiberalFighter]

77. My insurance plan was about $700 a month in the early 1990s.

Under a union negotiated plan.

Over $8,400 a year as a single person.

[hardluck]

79. Blue Shield raised our firm's rate 25% this year

We decided this year that we would pay 100% of our employees’ health insurance - we have 12 employees.

[uponit7771]

81. WTF ?! So how did people vote against the public option?! We're so screwed if people think we can keep doing this.

[Arazi]

91. Nobody has ever voted against the public option

That’s never been up for consideration.

Even MOC never voted on it - it got stripped out of ACA negotiations in committee because Joe Lieberman demanded that

[Ms. Toad]

80. 14,000 in premiums is only possible for a family of 3 with an income of around 165,000 or more.

I'm not going to cry too hard about that.

(Note: their premiums may be higher than that, but they are eligible for a tax credit based on the income level and number in family. The cap for 2025 ranges between 0% of income to 8.5% of income, depending on percentage of federal poverty level. 8.5% of income is permitted only if the family is above 400% of the federal poverty level.)

[uponit7771]

82. My surprise is mostly at the age of their family, I believed PHI was charging more for older people and they're not. We

... are getting ganked by PHI as a country and people continually vote against the public opiton.

This makes me think democrats really have a message issue OR .... this is not acceptable.

[dawg]

84. Don't worry. They are charging more for older people.

It's just that they are already charging a shit ton for younger people as well.

[uponit7771]

85. Yep, we're screwed if we think this is going to get better. A whole damn mortgage on PHI and people still vote GQP !!

[Ms. Toad]

89. Age is one of the few things they are permitted to charge more for.

Large enough businesses can be priced based on the needs of their employee group - so, as a practical matter, an older employee group will have higher premiums. But within that group difference will be based on family v. single.

[dawg]

83. For how much longer do you think?

And if the ACA goes down, are you protected from medical underwriting when you try to get a new policy in whatever hellscape emerges?

[Ms. Toad]

88. Who knows. I was only addressing the current situation.

Since a cap on premiums is one of the things the ACA provides.

[hunter]

86. My wife and I were paying more than that before Obamacare.

Our health insurance payment was greater than our mortgage payment thanks to our "preexisting conditions." We had separate insurance policies for our children.

For a time my wife and I were uninsurable until my wife was accepted to the State of California's high risk insurance pool, in the midst of a crisis where both her white blood cell count and weight were plunging into the danger zones.

It was a truly terrifying time in our lives. I don't even like thinking about it.

We currently have insurance through my wife's work. Fortunately she doesn't hate the job.

I know people who have been trapped in jobs they hate, or jobs that didn't pay them what they were worth, simply because they were afraid of losing essential health insurance for themselves, their spouses, or their children.

If half the voters in the U.S.A. were not fuckwits or sociopaths we'd surely have some sort of universal health care system, as every truly civilized nation does.