New Yorker: A Man Was Murdered in Cold Blood and You're Laughing?

[Dennis Donovan]

New Yorker - A Man Was Murdered in Cold Blood and You’re Laughing?

What the death of a health-insurance C.E.O. means to America.

By Jia Tolentino
December 7, 2024



As you know, the C.E.O. of UnitedHealthcare, fifty-year-old Brian Thompson, was murdered on the street in midtown Manhattan, on Wednesday morning, twenty minutes before sunrise. He was in town for an investors’ convention, and had worked for UnitedHealthcare for more than two decades—a company that is part of UnitedHealth Group, a health-insurance conglomerate valued at five hundred and sixty billion dollars. UnitedHealthcare had two hundred and eighty-one billion dollars in revenue in 2023, and Thompson, who became C.E.O. in 2021, had raised annual profits from twelve billion dollars to sixteen billion dollars during his tenure. He received more than ten million dollars in compensation last year. Andrew Witty, the C.E.O. of UnitedHealth Group, remembered Thompson in a video message to employees as a “truly extraordinary person who touched the lives of countless people throughout our organization and far beyond.” Thompson lived in a suburb of Minneapolis, where UnitedHealthcare is based, and he is survived by his wife and two sons.

The particulars of this murder are strange and remarkable: it occurred in public; the suspected shooter went to Starbucks beforehand; he got away from the scene via bicycle; he has not yet been found. But the public reaction has been even wilder, even more lawless. The jokes came streaming in on every social-media platform, in the comments underneath every news article. “I’m sorry, prior authorization is required for thoughts and prayers,” someone commented on TikTok, a response that got more than fifteen thousand likes. “Does he have a history of shootings? Denied coverage,” another person wrote, under an Instagram post from CNN. On X, someone posted, with the caption “My official response to the UHC CEO’s murder,” an infographic comparing wealth distribution in late eighteenth-century France to wealth distribution in present-day America. The whiff of populist anarchy in the air is salty, unprecedented, and notably across the aisle. New York Post comment sections are full of critiques of capitalism as well as self-enriching executives and politicians (like “Biden and his crime family”). On LinkedIn, where users post with their real names and employment histories, UnitedHealth Group had to turn off comments on its post about Thompson’s death—thousands of people were liking and hearting it, with a few even giving it the “clapping” reaction. The company also turned off comments on Facebook, where, as of midday Thursday, a post about Thompson had received more than thirty-six thousand “laugh” reactions.

What on earth, some people must be asking, is happening to our country? Are we really so divided, so used to dehumanizing one another, that people are out here openly celebrating the cold-blooded murder of a hardworking family man? That people are making jokes about how the assassin could’ve won the Timothée Chalamet look-alike contest in Washington Square Park? That when a journalist at the American Prospect called an eighty-eight-year-old woman who was aggravated by her poor Medicare Advantage coverage for comment, she wisecracked that she wasn’t the killer—she can’t even ride a bike?

There had been prior threats against Thompson, his wife told NBC News, motivated, she said, by, “I don’t know, a lack of coverage? . . . I just know that he said there were some people that had been threatening him.” There had been protests at the UnitedHealthcare headquarters, in Minnesota, in April and July; during the latter, eleven people were arrested. The group responsible for the protests, People’s Action, also confronted Witty, the UnitedHealth Group C.E.O., at a Senate hearing in May. In a statement, People’s Action leaders referenced endless hours on the phone trying to get medical care covered, and denials of coverage for lifesaving medication and surgery. A recent statement from the group, in response to Thompson’s death, read, “We know there is a crisis of gun violence in America. There is also a crisis of denials of care by private health insurance corporations including UnitedHealth.” They urged political leaders to “act on both.” UnitedHealthcare has the highest claim-denial rate of any private insurance company: at thirty-two per cent, it is double the industry average. And, though the shooter’s motive remains unknown, shell casings found on the scene had the words “deny,” “delay,” and possibly “depose” written on them, echoing the title of a 2010 book by Jay M. Feinman, “Delay, Deny, Defend: Why Insurance Companies Don’t Pay Claims and What You Can Do About It,” which by Thursday had leapt up one of Amazon’s best-seller charts.

/snip

[Think. Again.]

1. Yep, UHC denies 1/3 of medical claims.

[Silent Type]

4. No they don't and I'll bet money you can't provide a citation for that. I get you are are trying to justify shooting

someone in the back, but at least do it honestly.

[Think. Again.]

7. From the OP article above...

"UnitedHealthcare has the highest claim-denial rate of any private insurance company: at thirty-two per cent, it is double the industry average."

I'm off by 1%.

[Silent Type]

14. You accept every thing you read. That's initial denials AND requests for additional info.

Private insurers are more likely to deny suspected improper claims up front than through audits years later. Over 80% of initial denials by MA are overturned when the doctor provides additional information like, "Oh, chit, we forgot to mention that the patient developed pneumonia just before the typical discharge date, please allow the additional days."

Many of the denials are partial denials, Doctor asked for 14 days of therapy, but we are only approving 10 days at this point and will reconsider additional days if patient is making progress. Original Medicare's payment policy might also deny claims after the typical, standard of care, period. If you read, UHC, Aetna, Cigna, etc., coverage policies, they mostly follow CMS/Medicare policies word for word. Whether those policies are applied correctly is another matter, but that's true under original Medicare too.

Medicare similarly denies claims.

[Think. Again.]

18. I gave you a citation.

And please don't accuse me of trying to justify shooting someone in the back since I have never done that.

And pay me my money for your little bet.

[Silent Type]

21. If you provide a citation for ultimate denials, not initial ones quickly overturned I'll contribute $25 to your favorite

charity.

[Think. Again.]

24. Man, those goal posts move FAST!

[Silent Type]

27. You said they denied 30%, they don't. You left out the most important part about approving once lazy doctors

get around to providing proper info.

I take it, you couldn't find anything.

[Think. Again.]

31. I said they denied 1/3 and the article this thread is about backs that up.

[ThreeNoSeep]

45. Yes, but they did point out that you didn't provide it from the approved list of sources in their head

Apparently they went to the virtue signaling school of debate.

[LiberalArkie]

63. Just accept the fact that a corporation loyalties are to the executives and stock holders. The executives

own a very large amount of stock. The people who purchase their insurance are supposed to know that their monthly payments are to support our capitalist society and the overly inflated medical system. The only way that Amerca can have an oligarchy is by the paying people not getting what they paid for. We have to support our wealthy to support their way of life.

[chouchou]

90. After reading this thread, I'm starting to wonder and it damn sure isn't you.....

[yardwork]

70. Lazy doctors?

Wow. You may not realize this, but your comments here are exactly why people hate health insurance companies.

[soldierant]

74. Hmmmmm

lazy overworked doctors FIFY

[happy feet]

102. As the person

Responsible for dealing with family healthcare, yes, we've had many claims in the last 2 years that were automatically denied. When I called they agreed in EVERY case they shouldn't have been denied. They had all the information they needed. This is my first hand experience

On claims they sent back to be paid, several were denied a second time. One of which I had to go to the appeals process which is the first time a human (not a doctor) review. The first two denials were all computer generated.

[happy feet]

105. UM

You seem to be unaware that doctors hire contractors or their assistants to handle the claims which is a full time job. None of my doctors are lazy nor do they sit around on their hands counting their money. I'm just saying.

[NJCher]

133. In a lot of cases

The doc has to do it. Mine sat down with me at the computer and showed me what he has to go through and why he is sometimes the only person who could do it.

After seeing that, I totally understood why some quit to do other types of jobs.

[ZonkerHarris]

155. I love that you are willing to die on this hill being factually wrong and mildly abusive.

[Emile]

28. LOL my thoughts too.

[FeelingBlue]

48. Why make...

“Initial denials, quickly overturned?” Why should a company we pay provide coverage hurdles like that.

[Meowmee]

104. Because they know many people

Won’t appeal and it delays treatment and payment in many cases. The more hurdles the better for them.

[Arazi]

25. It's the New Yorker, typically they're a reliable source

You come across as an insider and yet here you are asking us to believe you (“everything we read”) versus the New Yorker?

🤔

[Silent Type]

44. Does writer of article sound qualified. Her main article before was on "Britney Spears's conservatorship nightmare."

Jia Tolentino
Jia Tolentino has been a staff writer at The New Yorker since 2016, covering a range of topics in news and culture, including the age of Instagram face and, with Ronan Farrow, Britney Spears’s conservatorship nightmare. Previously, she was the deputy editor of Jezebel and a contributing editor at the Hairpin. In 2023, she won a National Magazine Award for her columns and essays on abortion. Her first book, the essay collection “Trick Mirror,” was published in 2019.

[Arazi]

57. And who are you?

You asked us to believe skeptical of “everything we read” so… 🤔

The New Yorker presumably backs this reporter but lucky for us there’s a slew of other reputable sources like Forbes repeating the same stat.

Or are you suggesting none of these reporters fact checked (and only you know the “truth”?)

[Hekate]

58. Interesting that you don't see her qualifications the way I do. Ronan Farrow is an award-winning researcher/author...

I don’t know of Hairpin, but Jezebel gets quoted here and they practice good journalism. And just last year “she won a National Magazine Award for her columns and essays on abortion, “ which is no mean feat.

Hm.

On edit: I read about Britney Spears in another reliable source (possibly Los Angeles Times, since I am a subscriber) . The coverage was by no means a puff-piece. The woman was medicated against her will by dear old dad, and her every move was monitored for much of her life. She was a money-making machine for her father, nothing more.

[Autumn]

73. She sounds to be a very good writer. As is Ronan Farrow. That's for showing us how qualified

she is. Why do you think she's unqualified? Did you know he used AI to deny claims?

[choie]

80. In every post that you've made

you made it clear that. you're very defensive and an apologist for UHC, and very antagonistic toward Medicare. Very interesting...

[AZ8theist]

84. Disparaging the auther is an ad hominem fallacy.

[NJCher]

134. Jia appears on such podcasts as Preet Bahara's

The first time I heard her, she stood out for her depth of knowledge.

I asked who is this! She is not your average journalist.

She is highly regarded as a writer who can tackle complex topics. I made a note to read more of her work.

Preet introduced her as an exceptional thinker.

[delisen]

153. I am not impressed by this article.

Here she seems to be writing as a public scold or a click bait specialist.

[Henry203]

43. Our healthcare system is terrible

I started buying my own healthcare when I started my business in 2001. First they wouldn’t cover my daughter due to acid reflex then when she had to have an operation on her jaw. I had to pay out of pocket to do the rebuilding of her jaw. She would have been left without a chin.
I studied every plan and it was a losing position. My last time I paid for my wife it was $832 per month with a $7,000 deductible.
I went to medicare with a supplement and my wife has cancer. Her bills are at least 1.5 million and I have paid about $4,000.
Why do you defend such a terrible system?

[Silent Type]

77. No joke. It's time Congress gets of their rears. They've had 60 years to enact something decent, and haven't.

[AZ8theist]

89. NEVER as long as Repukes are in the majority...

Too much of that sweet, sweet campaign cash making them rich.

[Silent Type]

119. I bet we couldn't get 85% of Democrats to vote for universal HC without private insurers involved. ACA

ACA is a good example, it’s based on private insurers.

[roscoeroscoe]

130. Yikes, where are you coming from with this attitude defending the undefensible?

Medicare does not have a similar denial rate.

Private insurance claims are more likely to be denied than Medicare claims:
Private insurance: The initial denial rate for private insurance claims is around 15%.
Medicare: The average denial rate for Medicare inpatient claims is 6.8%, and the average denial rate for Medicare outpatient claims is 1.6%.
Hospitals and health systems spent an estimated $19.7 billion in 2022 trying to overturn denied claims.

[NJCher]

137. That last sentence boggles my mind

Thanks for the research. A link would have been nice but it seems to go along with what I’ve seen.

[intheflow]

131. Mrs. Thompson... is this you?

I’m just trying to see why you’re so adamantly defending UCS. MANY outlets have reported on the higher rate of claim denial including:

Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/amyfeldman/2024/12/05/unitedhealthcare-denies-more-claims-than-other-insurers---angering-patients-and-health-systems/

NPR: https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/healthcare-ceos-killing-shines-light-on-health-insurance-denial-rates-0c2595cb

NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/05/nyregion/delay-deny-defend-united-health-care-insurance-claims.html

First three hits on my Google search. If you’re claiming no reputable sources have reported it, you are either lazy, incompetent, or a healthcare exec.

[hlthe2b]

9. That attack on another DUer is unjustified and really wrong. That data was posted earlier.

[Silent Type]

17. Because it's the truth--

Original Medicare pretty much follows a "pay and chase" scheme. They'll pay most claims upon submission -- but do deny some on frontend -- but periodically audit doctors who show higher utilization rates than the typical physician in that specialty. If the records don't support the care billed, they recoup the money, but from the doctors. If the doc knew what he or his billing service was doing, they might be charged with fraud.

This is why you see Medicare pursuing a doctor years after the service was billed for $21 million in services that were never performed. The "pay and chase" lets a lot of improper claims through.

Private insurance and Advantage plans, are more likely to deny suspected improper claims up front than through audits years later. Over 80% of initial denials by MA are overturned when the doctor provides additional information like, "Oh, chit, we forgot to mention that the patient developed pneumonia just before the typical discharge date, please allow the additional days."
Many of the denials are partial denials, Doctor asked for 14 days of therapy, but we are only approving 10 days at this point and will reconsider additional days if patient is making progress. Original Medicare's payment policy might also deny claims after the typical, standard of care, period. If you read, UHC, Aetna, Cigna, etc., coverage policies, they mostly follow CMS/Medicare policies word for word. Whether those policies are applied correctly is another matter, but that's true under original Medicare too.

Believe it or not, doctors do cheat.

I've seen cases where a doctor might order an expensive test 1 time for every 100 patients when the patient has to be referred to another facility for the test (facility bills and profits in that case). Then, when the doc buys similar testing equipment for their office, thus being able to profit from it personally, the utilization rate jumps 400%. What that tells me is that the test wasn't needed that often, until the doc could profit off it.

I've asked doctors who billed a high paying code -- when they only performed a lower paying code -- why they chose the higher paying code? The answer from a supposedly intelligent person was, "Because I looked down the list of codes and the code I billed paid the most."

Admittedly, the rules are confusing, but that’s true under original Medicare too.

"The statistic is particularly alarming when one considers that the overwhelming majority of appeals—83.2%—resulted in the insurance company either partially or fully overturning the initial prior authorization denial in 2022. That figure is similar to what the overturn rate was between 2019 and 2021." AMA Oct 3, 2024

[hlthe2b]

29. Nol It is not. Multiple sources report the highest denials rate and further that they were using AI

to do so! All YOU had to do is google, but you prefer to call out a fellow DUer] as a supposed "liar" and equate their comments to justifying murder. That is indefensible.

Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/amyfeldman/2024/12/05/unitedhealthcare-denies-more-claims-than-other-insurers---angering-patients-and-health-systems/

Quartz/Yahoo: https://www.yahoo.com/news/unitedhealthcare-other-insurers-ai-deny-202000141.html

CBS: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/unitedhealth-lawsuit-ai-deny-claims-medicare-advantage-health-insurance-denials/

Fox Business! https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/unitedhealthcare-accused-relying-ai-algorithms-deny-medicare-advantage-claims

Computerworld: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3619010/after-shooting-unitedhealthcare-comes-under-scrutiny-for-ai-use-in-treatment-approval.html

Star Tribune: https://www.startribune.com/why-unitedhealthcare-is-a-four-letter-word-to-critics/601191492

NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/05/nyregion/delay-deny-defend-united-health-care-insurance-claims.html


Do some damned homework of your OWN and stop defaming your fellow DUers.

[Silent Type]

38. Not one of those says 30% ultimate denial rate.

[hlthe2b]

41. That you keep changing to new strawman arguments is not working. It only shows you for

your tactics--which are neither honest nor honorable. Welcome to ignore. And when your own family suffers under these tactics, you might remember how little sympathy you had for others similarly suffering.

[intheflow]

132. Why are you splitting hairs on denials?

Say you need heart surgery. Maybe UCS approves the surgery but not the full follow up care. You suffer a second, lethal heart attack because some med or service you need isn’t covered. That’s still denial of lifesaving care, so seriously, STOP trying to gaslight us about how the Big Bad Wolf is really a labradoodle puppy.

[Hekate]

64. Excellent gathering of sources

Thank you

[Think. Again.]

66. Thank you.

[lonely bird]

93. UHC

Largest Medicare fraud in history.

Fuck UHC.

It is terrible the man was killied.

That being said Rick Scott should have been in jail and the top management of UHC all replaced.

If private insurance can get out of paying, they will do everything they can to do so.

Their sole purpose as a for-profit company with SCOTUS decisions reinforcing it is to make money, period. It is not to pay for people’s healthcare.

[ShazzieB]

99. 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯

The emojis are my reaction to someone having the audacity to defend insurance companies here on DU.

Unbelievable.

[xmas74]

111. Im glad it's happening.

It's that time of year that I rethink my Ignore list,wondering if I was hasty.

Simping for insurance executives makes me realize my list isn't long enough.

[ShazzieB]

114. I know what you mean!

[Prof. Toru Tanaka]

10. An article I read on DU yesterday

had a graph that showed UHC had a 32% denial rate that was double the national average.

My spouse and I are ready to consult an attorney reference a claim that UHC is refusing to pay- they keep claiming Medicare is my wife’s primary insurer when she is on my UHC health benefits policy. Thankfully, we will be getting switched to another company with a cheaper monthly premium starting next month. And I will be eligible for Medicare in 2025 so goodbye and GOOD RIDDANCE to United Health Care.

[Silent Type]

19. Initial denials, final denials are like 9% and most are resolved quickly. Doctors do bill Botox for headaches when

it's cosmetic. They do bill more MRIs, lab tests, etc., when they profit from it than when they don't. The do bill surgical procedures without meeting original Medicare's guidelines that are use by private insurers. Hospitals pay consultant big bucks to teach doctors how to upcode DRGs, costing millions. And more.

[Prof. Toru Tanaka]

23. I hope our case ends up as one of those in the 23%.

If it goes to where we need an attorney’s services to get them to pay up, I am going to ask for reimbursement of any attorney fees. It should not have come to this point in the first place.

[SamuelTheThird]

37. Citation?

You ask for citations, then don't provide ANY of your own.

The company dismissed about one in every three claims in 2023 — the most of any major insurer. That’s twice the industry average of 16 percent, according to data from ValuePenguin, a consumer research site owned by LendingTree that specializes in insurance.

[Silent Type]

42. Here you go.

"Medicare Advantage insurers denied 3.4 million (7.4%) prior authorization requests in 2022. Of the 46.2 million prior authorization determinations in 2022, more than 90% (42.7 million) were fully favorable, meaning the requested item or service was approved in full.

Aug 8, 2024 Kaiser Foundation


From JAMA, published by AMA and essentially a physician union.

"Each year, millions of claims for medical services are denied by health insurance plans. Many denials may be justified as a necessary strategy to reduce wasteful spending from low-value care. However, denials may also delay diagnosis and/or treatment for patients, and appealing denials contributes to clinician workload and burnout.1 This tension is apparent in the Medicare program, where denials affect millions of beneficiaries who enroll in Medicare Advantage (MA). Although MA plans are required to cover the same services as traditional Medicare, these private plans are allowed to leverage utilization management tools, such as prior authorization, that traditional Medicare rarely uses.2 In 2021, MA plans denied approximately 6% of the 35 million prior authorization requests submitted. Although only 11% of these denials were appealed, the decisions were overturned in 82% of appealed cases.3 The regularity of reversals has raised questions about whether MA plans are deviating from their coverage obligations."
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama-health-forum/fullarticle/2815743

[SamuelTheThird]

46. That doesn't say UnitedHealthCare has a 9% denial rate

You're talking about Medicare Advantage, which is less than 1/5 of UnitedHealthCare's customers.

Try again.

[dpibel]

47. Odd you use overall numbers

I'm not seeing how these quotes prove anything one way or another about UHC's practices.

Even if UHC's final determinations follow the percentages overall, they're still going to be way ahead of everybody else by virtue of their high rate of initial denials.

[Prairie Gates]

53. There's also slipperiness in attributing initial denials to minor errors and "lazy doctors"

The high number of initial denials is a result of a deliberate policy designed to create more final denials by making the process of achieiving a successful claim extremely difficult. It's a bit like saying "Sure, you get mugged 30% of the time that you go outside, but they only successfully grab your money 9% of the time." Well, fuck me. That's nice!

The various strategies that they start in on with initial denials are part of the overall problem. Claiming that their relentless claim-denial tactics are only successful 10% of the time ultimately is quite the prancing bit of sophistry, but most people see through this nonsense as a result of their own experience. If I have to fight tooth and nail for six months for a claim that should have been paid immediately, I have still been harmed. It is a thief and a liar who would counter with "well, you got your money eventually, no?" Especially since many don't, even with that terrible fight that is a fight made by deliberate policy.

Ultimately, these are all dishonest tactics made to obscure the overall point: health insurance companies should not be very profitable. The basic principle is that those who are healthy help pay for those who are sick, but everybody gets sick at some point, and some are very sick and require a great deal of care. A health insurance company can surely increase efficiencies and pull a small profit from that overall scheme. The only way they could possibly amass the massive profits they're taking is by disrupting the orderly running of a "healthy pay for the sick" agreement. They take money from the healthy and the sick, and return as little as they can. This company made $16 billion in profit. That's not possible under an orderly operation of a health in surance company. It is only possible when they are rapacious murderers, and that's the end of that.

[Arazi]

61. Even 9-10% denials seems horrific

We’re quibbling over that?!

Ffs… 10% of Americans are facing financial ruin every single year because of getting sick. What a fucking racket…

[OilemFirchen]

72. That's fantastic!

That said, a bit twisted but not whimsical. Color me disappointed.

[LizBeth]

145. I work for insurance claims. I know how hard it is to push a totally valid claim thru with all the info

needed. Takes repeated calls and a lot of time from providers office to get it pushed thru. Yes there is the claims where doctors over bill and have to be mulled out. But it is not an easy smooth run to get the basic claims paid. A glitch in the systems denies all CPT codes automatically and has to be sent in to steps before getting to final step of a national appeal simply to get code editing unlock to be able to adjust. A provider can spend months trying to get a 400 office visit paid only to receive 65 dollars of the 400. There is so much in this conversation and a little of what you say is true that people are not recognizing but the fact is, many people have a 2000 deductible average they have to pay before they get a simply doctor office visit paid or anything else. And a lot of the policies are increasing a large percentage from 2024 to 25 and deductible is increasing. It is not a pretty picture.

[LizBeth]

146. That was with the implications of algorithms. Then lets talk about implementing

Last edited Sun Dec 8, 2024, 02:27 PM - Edit history (1)

AI taking decisions totally out of a liev person with a thinking brain to automatically deny or approve which is being implemented in my company and it is going to be a whole lot of hell. The algorithm alone denies claims just out of the air and takes massive efforts to get the claim paid.

[Scrivener7]

15. And you keep equating talking about a shooting to

justifying a shooting.

[Silent Type]

20. Yeah, in this context it is.

[Hekate]

71. When multiple corporations practice legalized murder for profit, I guess you could say that

Except getting shot in the back is quicker and less painful

[ShazzieB]

100. In your opinion.

Yeah, in this context it is.

In YOUR opinion. Which MANY here do NOT share.

[Scrivener7]

159. See?

[Stargleamer]

36. I think Forbes says an "estimated one-third denial rate

"UHC has the highest instance of denials out of all major providers, refusing an estimated one-third of claims submitted"
--Forbes:
https://archive.ph/05Uku

Also from Raw News and Politics:


(

&t=873s):

[zuul]

56. That was rude. Justify shooting someone in the back?

Jesus!

[SocialDemocrat61]

62. No it's not 1/3, it's only 32%

[Genevra]

65. where are your citations/references that prove they don't deny claims at that rate?

NT

[paleotn]

94. Hey! Are you with the parasitic insurance industry? Just curious.

Haven't seen them around here since the ACH was being debated.

Can we get stickers with Thompson's face on it saying..."I helped do that!"....for the chart below? Sure we can!

Stands to reason someone somewhere might have a legitimate beef with the guy.

[Phoenix61]

117. Would you please provide the source citing what percent they deny? nt

[The Grand Illuminist]

120. War is hell.

Back, front, all fair game.

[Blue Full Moon]

157. You are wrong.

He was even on his way to an investors meeting to pitch some more cost savings for them to profit over. They even made racketeering companies that sole purpose is to deny claims. Destroy people's lives and yes cause their deaths. I don't give a damn that a serial mass murderer was killed. Those insurance companies have been fighting to keep universal health care from American people. Even though they are just fine in countries that do. The republicans have known for some time that most Americans don't live to retire and the main reason is lack of health care. Rob Portman made a plan during Bush jr to lower payments for companies for pensions because those people are going to die anyway. Still hurting over my nephew's death which is a direct result of republicans and businesses blocking health care.

[33taw]

161. Here is a link. If you want more, do your own research.

https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/payer/unitedhealthcare-denies-most-claims-any-major-health-insurer-data-show#:~:text=The%20company%20dismissed%20about%20one,network%20claims%20data%20from%20CMS.

[Silent Type]

2. It's bad enough when trumpsters were the goons, it's another when Democrats join in.

[SamuelTheThird]

49. Anyone not totally broken up a psychopathic ceo dies is a goon.

[Silent Type]

50. Probably not, but they darn sure aren't what I expect from fellow Democrats. YMMV

[paleotn]

97. I bet you would have said....

Those Bastille stormers, they should have been happy with their damn cake!

[hlthe2b]

3. I don't visit some of the internet areas that supposedly are so "horrific" on the comments. That said,

I do think it is quite possible and understandable that some would want to express outrage at the violent act, while likewise not wanting him to be painted as a "Saint"... I get the impression there is a concerted effort to conflate this and that smacks of a pretty repulsive tactic as well.

[Prairie Gates]

8. Just a "hard-working family man" the article says

Like Tony Soprano.

[Think. Again.]

22. .

(No trolls, I'm not laughing at his death, I'm laughing at him being called "a hard-working family man" )

[Autumn]

76. Just a "hard-working family man"? Must be whey he used AI to deny claims.

Also? to you. You killed it.

Too soon?

[xmas74]

113. Tony Soprano had more class nt

[misanthrope]

118. Just like so many other average white collar schlubs

scraping and clawing to bring home their meager $10 million a year.

[atreides1]

5. Boo, fucking hoo

I wonder why the New Yorker isn't talking about the migrant teen who was murdered because he couldn't speak English?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/migrant-teens-stabbed-nyc-1-fatally-after-asked/story?id=116523495

[paleotn]

98. Guess the New Yorker caters to the NYC blue bloods.

They're apparently all in a tizz that at least one of the proles might not be taking their shit anymore and calling it good.

[Voltaire2]

127. The New Yorker has done substantial reporting on

immigration issues.

[ColinC]

6. Laughing at evil people dying is generally normal. Pretending an evil man was good or deserving of sympathy, is not.

When a violent or deranged criminal/ serial killer is murdered by the cops (or anybody) in cold blood, there is little sympathy for the criminal or killer. This situation carries little difference. Just because the mass killings he committed were legal, doesn't make him much better than nearly any other mass murderer.

[Think. Again.]

11. Well said.

[mike_c]

12. indeed

Well said.

[Crunchy Frog]

33. I freely confess that I sometimes watch videos

of russian soldiers getting snuffed in Ukraine, purely for entertainment.

I'm a bad person.

[whathehell]

92. Um, maybe in the movies...

In real life, those charged with "evil" are entitled to this thing known as "due process". Even then, I've never heard anyone actually "laugh" about the death of another, and I'm grateful for that.

[ColinC]

101. No? Saddam Hussein, Chris Dorner, Charles Manson, Hitler?

There was definitely a decent amount of laughing when those folks died...

And no: not everybody gets due process. I would say ask all the folks whose claims were denied, but most of them are dead (or the 3/4 I listed).

[Attilatheblond]

13. When huge insurance companies engage in causing economic disaster and even widescale deaths for profit

it's astounding they didn't figure what goes around comes around.

Haven't seen anybody laughing about this execution, but plenty who understand why, and nodding that sometimes, justice might prevail whether the courts or personal action brings it about. When real regulation and/or the courts continually fail, personal action becomes more likely.

There is a point at which a population rendered helpless by a system will rise up to deal directly with that system. Not a laughing matter at all. More a situation where the societal 'winners' forget the logical result of over exploiting/abusing, and start learning the hard way what they should have learned the easy way from history.

Isn't it a reality that wealthy corporate types are aware of danger in nations where the exploitation has been the worst for a long time? Did they never consider their greed and cruelty would eventually push Americans into fury and desperate actions too?

"Lord, what fools these mortals be!" indeed.

[Timewas]

91. Yes

The real surprise here is that it took so long before it happened.

[Arazi]

16. A *mass murderer* was killed in cold blood

And while we may or may not be laughing, make no mistake that most find the rough justice entirely understandable

[City Lights]

26. I'm not laughing.

I just don't think his life is worth more than any other life taken in cold blood by the gun crisis in the US.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

30. I'm not laughing but I am thinking about Karma.

This guy did get his message out and people are discussing what he wanted people to discuss.

[Dem4life1234]

32. Where

Where are all the tears for people who died being denied vital medical services?

I'm not shedding a damn tear for any of these CEOS.


Looks like certain powers that be are shook because the common folks aren't boohooing his death.

People die every day, people are fucking murdered every single damn day in this country and what?

[Xoan]

34. HARD WORKING AT GETTING RICH ...

BY MURDERING PATIENTS,

[RockRaven]

35. From what I've seen most people are laughing at the BS demands for sympathy

and civility, not the murder itself.

And entitled demands for civility and sympathy for a person who enriched himself off of the suffering of others -- and the more rich the more the suffering -- are worthy of scoffing if not derision.

[OilemFirchen]

39. Perhaps this sadistic trend could be ended by lining up all of the chortling trolls and shooting them in the back.

Just spitballing, mind you.

[Meowmee]

40. My concern is reserved for the people that died or suffered/ were bankrupted etc.

Due to his and other health insurer policies. It’s sad that nobody cares about those people very much. There is usually someone to come along and defend the health insurance agencies, they are suspect. There’s no justifiable reason for them to be for profit and making huge profits in billions by denying claims, the jump in claim denial happened at uhc when he became ceo in about 2-3 years.

He was obviously no angel… in addition He was being investigated for insider, trading and other fraud related to the health insurance. Aside from denying valid claims by using AI.

[Aussie105]

51. Laughing? Gloating?

No, not really.

A shrug of the shoulders, maybe.

Someone getting gunned down on those streets for whatever reason gets a shrug mostly, too many (42 on the same day?) to really get wound up over.
Insanity awaits if you do.

It has brought to the surface of peoples' attention the bad state of health insurance in America, and I applaud that.

As always . . . don't let others tell you how to feel about this one incident.
Too many other shootings where indignant rage was justified and affirmative preventative action should have followed, but . . . crickets!

Will they catch the shooter and will he divulge his reasons? Probably not.

Will he get to a safe place and ring the media and explain? Probably not.

For all we know this may have been a carefully planned shoot-for-thrills, with the target picked at random, being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Attilatheblond]

96. Considering the messages inscribed on those bullets

it is pretty safe to assume it was not random or for thrills. It was personal and pointed.

[sakabatou]

52. I'm not laughing, but I just don't feel pity for the person killed

[Aussie105]

55. We have become desensitised to the violent death of others.

Any violent death is lamentable, but our emotions are on hold if it isn't someone we knew, and we simply step over the corpses and carry on as if nothing is wrong.

Add that to the list of all the things that are wrong with America.
It's a long list.

[sakabatou]

68. So let's say someone was murdered.

I personally knew the victim. However, said victim was an asshole towards me and others. Should I feel sorry for the victim?

[Aussie105]

75. Yes. No. Maybe.

Entirely up to you.

[hatrack]

54. Jia, you don't know me or anything about me - so how do you know if I'm laughing?

Behold, the omniscient New Yorker!!

[sarisataka]

59. I am against murder.

[delisen]

60. Applaud that we can still laugh

even though
It may be gallows humor

[ShazzieB]

108. I'm a fan of gallows humor myself.

I think it provides a valuable outlet for people's frustrations, and God knows a lot of Americans have a TON of frustrations regarding medical care costs and the roadblocks thrown up by the insurance industry between people and the medical care they need.

Even those of us who are lucky enough not to have had a really bad experience getting needed care covered (YET) have heard a million horror stories about people getting screwed over by insurance companies and dying unnecessarily, going bankrupt trying to pay for it themselves, etc., and we're sick of living with the constant fear of it happening to us.

That is why so many of us lack both the ability and the desire to shed a tear over this man's fate. Unfortunately for him, this obscenely rich CEO literally symbolizes everything about the American health care system that we're all fed up with, so of course a lot of us are going to react accordingly.

Furthermore, no one has the right to tell another person how to feel, period, full stop. We all have the right to feel however we feel about this, without being scolded or judged. That is all.

[delisen]

112. Well said

[Jilly_in_VA]

67. Who says it was in cold blood?

The shooter may have had a PERSONAL reason for shooting him. The words engraved on the bullet casings MEAN something, and they may mean something very personal. Think about that for a minute!

[SCantiGOP]

88. Using that logic

You could justify killing your financial advisor if their advice caused you to lose your life savings.
Murder is not justifiable.

[Linda ladeewolf]

69. Other articles I have read say that this ceo

Started out in the Medicare division of UHC and worked his way up by denying a lot of Medicare claims. That’s how you make the big bucks. By making lots of money for those shareholders. I cat be sympathetic to him.

[Aussie105]

79. We can't help it.

On the death of anyone, we tailor our response to the way they lived their lives.
How would you react hearing about the deaths of:
Jimmy Carter.
Donald Trump.

Human nature. Doesn't need to be logical or rational.

[Linda ladeewolf]

140. Very true!

It’s usually a gut reaction to start with. My gut says this ceo was a selfish bastard who saw dollar signs instead of human beings.

[MayReasonRule]

78. Less Than Zero Tears... Less Than Zero...

[SnoopDog]

81. A Mark Twain quote appropriate here

“I never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure”

[C0RI0LANUS]

144. SnoopDog: Concur. FYI (unless Mr. Darrow borrowed it from Mr. Clemens)

[SnoopDog]

149. It's a good saying no matter who said it...

I didn’t know about the Darrow version. thanks.

[C0RI0LANUS]

150. You're welcome and I follow that philosophy myself.

[W T F]

82. Knowing what Brian Thompson is infamous for, I honestly can't say that I have anymore sympathy for him than I had

with the death of Jeffry Epstein.

[DJ Synikus Makisimus]

83. I sent tots and pears,

just like they do when there's a school shooting or some other form of murder not involving a rich asshole. What more do they want?

[SunSeeker]

85. Yes, at this:

UnitedHealthcare CEO Shooting Suspect Lookalike Contest Held In New York City

A shooting suspect "lookalike contest" took place in New York City's Washington Square Park on Saturday — likely a comedic reference to the Timothée Chalamet lookalike contest held in the same location in October.

After New York police released a photo of a "person of interest" in the killing of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson on Thursday, many people on social media remarked on the individual's apparent physical resemblance to the actor.

When independent reporter Talia Jane asked the handful of contestants at Saturday's event about who organized the contest, one man joked, "The FBI."

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/unitedhealthcare-ceo-shooting-live-updates_n_675253c9e4b0a7189dd8c624/liveblog_6754b9bde4b0a7dedf083e75

[yaesu]

86. We just witnessed the final nail in the coffin of democracy and the elite's are surprised we don't give a flying fuck

about them?, imma just playing a fiddle while Rome burns.

[Swede]

87. Out loud?

[paleotn]

95. Depends on the man, really.

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind so to speak.

[orangecrush]

103. Fuck that guy

EOM

[claudette]

106. What has

happened to America? I am appalled

[hay rick]

107. Thompson murdered thousands of people- he just didn't leave fingerprints.

Last edited Sat Dec 7, 2024, 09:43 PM - Edit history (1)

One of the "advantages" of corporate organization is the avoidance of personal liability. People understand that when a huge insurance company can implement coverage policies that deny critical care for patients, literally thousands of people can be condemned to avoidable death. People also understand that withholding care reduces costs and increases profits for insurance companies. Top executives at those companies approve corporate policies that deny care, increase profits...and maim and kill patients. Top executives are compensated for increased profits and immunized from legal consequences. Their argument is that their company and policies don't kill anyone- they just refuse to help cure or save them.

In a corporate culture, these deaths are not murder, they are collateral damage. The more often top executives are able to "pull the trigger," the higher their pay and bonuses. Empathy is often viewed as a defect. The people who rise to these lofty corporate positions are driven by ambition and greed. They accept the costs of avoidable misery and death of others as rungs in the ladder of success. The avoidance of criminal responsibility for this kind of killing is a failing of our legal system. Killing a CEO is a vigilante act that addresses that failure. In the absence of sufficient legal restraints on predatory behavior, fear of sudden, violent death may have a salubrious effect.

[LuvLoogie]

109. TL;DR

Pffft....

[delisen]

110. You have not reported on the murders we haven't laughed st

Why not ?.Are they not worthy of your attention and concern?

[niyad]

115. WTAFH, new yorker??? The COMMENTS are more lawless than the actual

shooting??? He was merely a "hardworking family man"??? And the "biden crime family" dig??? which is where I quit reading.

I used to get the New Yorker magazine years ago, when it had interesting, well-written articles. When did that change?

[lees1975]

116. A plurality of Americans helped elect a convict to the Presidency.

I think that explains the confusion about what is right and wrong. After all, he did say once that he could shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue and get away with it. Well, I guess someone took him seriously. And they've gotten away with it so far.

[NJCher]

143. and if that 40%

who couldn't get off their duffs and vote would have done so, we might not have this situation.

[Patton French]

121. Unfortunately, many are rejoicing at murder.

It makes me very sad at we have become.

[Midwestern Democrat]

123. It's despicable - anyone applauding or condoning the murder of someone operating within the bounds of the law had better

NEVER try to claim they are a humanist. I wonder just how far could this murderer go before he'd lose his cheering section? If he blew up the headquarters of United Healthcare on a workday, would that be too far? Or are all those women with high school educations working in the policyowner services department answering insureds' claim and policy questions fair game because they're collaborators with the evil empire?

[LoveSucky]

122. Well...

Are we really so divided

This is the most united the left and the right have been all year.

[DiverDave]

125. There IS

Evil in this world.
I have no problem with putting it down.

[alarimer]

126. Nobody is laughing.

We are just pointing out how many people CEOs of insurance companies are responsible for killing through denial of care. It's not justified; it's just understandable.

One death is a tragedy; thousands are a statistic.

Others have pointed out that a 17-year old murdered on the same day has received far less attention and no reward for the capture of the suspect. So some lives are definitely worth more than others. This case just puts that in our faces.

[Patton French]

128. It's very sad.

Time to take a break.

[Botany]

129. "UnitedHealth Group, a health-insurance conglomerate valued at five hundred and sixty billion dollars."

And how did United Health Care make that $560,000,000,000.00? By not paying the money
they promised to sick and hurt people.

[Emile]

135. Predatory Capitalism kills people everywhere everyday.

Garland and Trump proved there is no justice anymore.

Maybe this killing of a Predatory Capitalist is our only justice.

[NJCher]

141. yeah, I'm wondering where justice is coming from

and then drones start flying around NJ, and around Bedminster, too.

[Patton French]

136. I'm old enough to remember when we were opposed to the death penalty.

Oh how times have changed.

[Emile]

138. I'm still opposed to Predatory Capitalists killing people!

[EllieBC]

139. Indifference is met with indifference.

That man’s fortunes were made via bonuses for a job well done of making money for shareholders by denying people care.

He and his ilk were indifferent to people who were suffering and needed treatment.

And now people are supposed to feel empathy for him?

The middle class, working poor, and poor always have to do everything for the wealthy I guess. Now we even have to provide feelings for them.

[NJCher]

142. didn't he do

insider trading, too?

[EllieBC]

158. Yes I believe he was being investigated?

Not exactly a great person.

[Autumn]

147. I'm starting to LMAO every time it's mentioned The angst over this asshole being shot compared to the

thoughts and prayers bullshit when children are slaughtered is a fucking joke.

[C0RI0LANUS]

148. Justice, Vengeance, Karma, or a Combination of all Three?

On 29 April 1945, Soldiers of the “Greatest Generation” were so incensed and outraged after seeing the horrors of the Dachau Concentration Camp, some of them summarily executed unarmed SS guards before the commanders could stop them, a direct violation of the Geneva Convention.


US soldiers execute SS camp guards lined up against a wall during the liberation of Dachau concentration camp. (Photo: Wikimedia Commons)

FTA:

“It wasn’t just the American soldiers who reportedly took revenge on the SS guards. It was the inmates too.

One of the prisoners, Walenty Lenarczyk, said that immediately following the liberation the prisoners gained a newfound sense of courage. They caught the SS men “and knocked them down and nobody could see whether they were stomped or what, but they were killed.” As Lenarczyk put it, “We were, all these years, animals to them and it was our birthday.”

There’s a reporting of two liberated prisoners beating a German guard to death with a shovel and another witnessed account of a liberated prisoner stomping repeatedly on the face of a guard.

One vivid memory Jack Goldman recalled from the liberation was the American troops taking their names. He said, “For the first time, we were no longer numbers.”

No US Army Soldiers nor prisoners were prosecuted.

Was this justice, vengeance, or karma?

Source:

https://allthatsinteresting.com/dachau-reprisals

[Ping Tung]

151. No man is an island, Entire of itself,

No man is an island,
Entire of itself,
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thy friend's
Or of thine own were:
Any man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind,
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.

John Donne

[Oneear]

152. People Need to Shop for Bullet Proof Baseball Caps and Bullet Proof Clothes with Gloves Socks

Come with the understanding that people want instant street justice and do not want to wait for the rule of law. They want to take matters into their own hands, just like in the Wild West of the 1880s. Keep Us Safe.

[BannonsLiver]

154. Oh fuck off Jia. Elitist clown.

[LexVegas]

156. ...

[Jack Valentino]

160. I've heard of another 'New Yorker'----- "former" New Yorker I guess

for whom my laughs are reserved