General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCan't afford a smartphone? That's going to cost you.
Access to services, benefits and discounts is migrating to mobile apps and leaving the needy behind.https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/12/04/smart-phone-access-unequal/
https://archive.ph/r1VhF

The gleaming blue booths popped up this year in busy urban spaces such as Dupont Circle, Columbia Heights and downtown D.C., providing convenient, clean and free toilets for people who find themselves in urgent need. Which is a blessed relief except for those who dont carry phones, a group particularly populated by old folks, the homeless and the poor. To get into one of about a dozen freestanding Throne bathrooms in the District and certain suburbs, you need to unlock the door with either a QR code or a text sent to the company. Under the providers deal with the D.C. government, which signed a $410,000 contract for the first year of service (since extended into next year), Throne offers access for the phone-less via a free entry card available at senior centers, libraries and programs for the homeless.
But according to Jessica Heinzelman, the co-founder of Throne, only 63 cards have been distributed, which suggests that a rapidly growing problem of unequal access wont be solved with plastic. Too often now, in matters meaningful and meaningless, the good stuff is reserved for people who have smartphones or other digital tools. From parking garages to airplane movie offerings, it pays to be digitally equipped. More to the point, it hurts to be in the technological slow lane. Consider how store deals and discounts are distributed these days: Printed circulars are fading out or gone; instead, would-be customers receive offers via text or email. Nice and clean, but think about who is left out the very people who could benefit most from cheaper goods.

A public restroom in Fairfax operated by Throne Labs uses smartphones as the primary way to gain access. (Courtesy of Throne Labs)
A few weeks ago, when I pulled into the parking lot at the discount supermarket I frequent, an attendant was warning customers that henceforth, all motorists would be charged $50 if they didnt check in via QR code for free parking every time they entered. An elderly woman protested that she didnt have a smartphone and didnt know how to use a QR code. The response, to a woman who had considerable trouble moving around, was: You can go park in the neighborhood. New technologies require new tools, obviously. When the telephone replaced the telegraph, people who didnt quickly adopt the new device were at a disadvantage. When cars replaced horses as the primary means of getting around, those who couldnt afford the new technology were literally left behind.
Its hardly surprising that restaurants are moving toward easily updated QR code menus, or that airlines are forgoing seatback screens in favor of passengers streaming entertainment on their personal screens. Fully 91 percent of Americans have smartphones, up from 35 percent in 2011, according to Pew Research Center studies. The speed of near-universal adoption is astounding, rivaling previous champions of such swift success such as radio and color TV. Still, its worth lingering on just who is in that remaining 9 percent: Its overwhelmingly those who are 65 or older, poor people and particularly homeless people. When benefits and services go digital, they pay the price. (My father, despite being an early computer adopter, refused to join the ranks of the cell-phoned because he was a privacy zealot and didnt like the idea of being tethered to a tracking device)
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dawg
(10,777 posts)when their mobile site and my browser should suffice.
That being said, there are plenty of very cheap android smart phones available. We don't all have to have a $1,000 iPhone.
XanaDUer2
(15,442 posts)I won't be able to function. I want am easy life. This is horrible.
ShepKat
(453 posts)never had one, never will. I have 2 flip phones. 1 I pay 20 bucks a month for unlimited call/text, 1 I pay 20 bucks every 3 months. That's the one I use to find the first one. fuk'apps. A laptop does the rest.
Celerity
(48,184 posts)the BankID identification/verification system, you (in almost all cases) have to have a smartphone to use the app, as they have phased out almost all desktop use of the system several years ago.
Without BankID, you are likely well fucked, as SO many things require it, from simple transactions to identification-dependent access to sites, including medical and governmental ones.
Example of usage areas are Swish payments, bank login, login to e-government, and access to medical records via Vårdguiden 1177.
sagetea
(1,485 posts)The United States does not. I firmly believe the most expensive thing in the world is to be poor in the US.
sage
I've been dealing with smartphone exclusion forever. If you have an app you can do this or that. I can't and have never been able to. The list is getting longer.
hunter
(39,343 posts)Do I even want to know what a "Swish payment" is???

I'm very good at loosing or breaking personal electronics such as phones, cameras, laptops, etc., so they have to be cheap. Rugged slab type smart phones are not cheap.
My current flip phone was free, diverted from the e-waste bins. It replaced a flip phone I dropped in a fish pond. (All I had to do was transfer the sim card, which was not damaged.)
The phone previous to that, I lost. Or maybe it was stolen. Someone found it and even answered once when I called and then hung up. For whatever reason I guess they decided it would be better to throw it away than return it.
I had a slab-type smart phone before that which did not survive a long fall onto rocks.
Etc.
All my medical records before 2014 or so are apparently lost or inaccessible which actually makes me kind of happy. I feel no need to explain some of my scars to doctors, therapists, or anyone else.
Celerity
(48,184 posts)Swish is by far (around 85 per cent of Swedes use it) the largest, most widely used one here.
I love it, as I can pay anyone who has it instantly, dygnet runt (24-7, around the clock). It is far more secure than a credit card or a paper cheque (cheques are almost never used here, I have not see one in ages, most places will not accept them, for obvious reasons).
I have never written a cheque in my life, never had them, nor have I ever had a landline phone myself (my parents had one whilst I grew up in London). I also almost never use cash, mainly for security reasons, but also it just isn't convenient.
All that above is not limited to just the EU/UK. Most of my American-based friends are the same, at least the ones who are remotely near my age group (18-34, I just turned 28yo right before the US elections).
cadoman
(1,097 posts)I'm glad the apps and technology have been good to you. Please don't leave the rest of us behind because it's convenient.
Celerity
(48,184 posts)bhikkhu
(10,770 posts)I ran into that trying to visit a museum years ago. I had a smartphone, downloaded the app, linked it to my bank, etc, and rushed through the visit because I wasn't sure how much charge my phone had, and had no idea what a person would do if their phone died so they couldn't notify the app of their departure.
Generally speaking I just don't go places where I need a smartphone. I have one and I'm pretty far from being a luddite, but I don't like having to figure stuff like that out, which used to be entirely simple.
LeftInTX
(32,549 posts)I only have a credit card.
I do not have any apps that link directly to my banks account because I worry about the security. I use my credit card to pay. I have never had a problem.
There are some discount parking apps. (Save $5 if you use their app? Preregister to park?) They may use credit cards or directly to a bank. However I do not use them. I've always used my credit card. No problem. I do have to hunt ahead of time when I go downtown. But downtown is always a bit of parking nightmare for everyone in San Antonio. I often just take the park and ride. Or I park at a distance and walk.
niyad
(122,480 posts)phone was sucking up data usage when I wasn't doing anything. I don't stream, I don't download apps, dont't do anything but talk, text, and glance (barely read any) at my mail. Took it to my provider,, from whom I bought the phone. Took them nearly an hour to undo all the crap running, unasked, uninvited, in the background. The techs kept saying, androids do this (hint. hint). After the third time, I said, bluntly, I cannot afford an Iphone, and even if I could, I wouldn't spend that kind of money.
My phone is even screwier now, so I have to go back. I am not amused. I am over 65, as are many of my friends. Most of them have smart phones and use them well, but I can clearly see where there are going to be many problems for many people.
lame54
(37,537 posts)Johnny2X2X
(22,424 posts)Really is another method of dividing the haves and have nots.
My elderly father doesn't do smart phones, it's not the only way you can use tickets for some sporting and concert events. You can't order takeout without a smart phone from some restaurants or even make reservations by calling anymore.
And that's ne divide, but the poor are stuck with crappy phones with crappy plans that provide crappy service. Have a friend who's a disabled vet, he goes from crappy phone to crappy phone and from crappy provider to crappy provider unsure if they're even going to work well in his out in the middle of nowhere. He ends up with some phone that's 8 generations ago and they just fail all the time.Then they change his bill, then his service stops working. It's non stop for him. And he's always charging his phone, like people used to have to do 10 years ago. It's a pain.
Phones are finally advanced enough that they're delivering on the potential of the technology. They truly are wireless now because you only have to plug them in for a small part of the day, usually when you're sleeping for most. But the have nots are stuck with things that barely work, cost too much, and often don't provide the services they really need.
allegorical oracle
(4,202 posts)others have a powerful enough signal. And the one, depending on weather (or something), gets lost and we have to get in our vehicles and drive until we catch a signal -- sometimes all the way to a neighboring county. Even the younger, more tech-savvy young people gripe about it.
That leads me to believe the industry is focused primarily on populous areas (where the people and $$ are) and the rest of us are an afterthought.
Johnny2X2X
(22,424 posts)Government has been responsible for bringing cell phone towaers to rural areas and they're starting to do more, $9B of Biden's infrastructure Law is now dedicated to bringing 5G to rural America.
It's simply not finiancially feasible for Cellphone companies to put towers up in areas with 500 customers. Once cellphone service became a necessary part of being a citizen, Biden and the Dems stepped up to build out the infrastructure to get it to people. Of course, those rural people will never pay attention to the reason they'll have better service soon, they'll in fact still claim the government is doing too much.
allegorical oracle
(4,202 posts)Wolver
(6 posts)Lot of people do long for a simpler time. Especially if they're older. It might be reactionary, there's probably racism, sexism, underlying that sentiment for some. That doesn't change the reality that a lot of people have a nostalgia for a simpler time and are not happy where society is heading.
Pretty much think the "American Dream", "American Greatness", and the platitudes are mostly bullshit but people love their nostalgia whether it was all bullshit or not. Biden's "Fighting For The Soul Of America" and Trump's Make America Great Again both hit on that nostalgia and longing for the simpler times. Maybe one of the reasons why Biden was able to win and Harris lost. "We're Not Going Back" is not a winning message if the majority doesn't like where you're heading.
People ask me why I still use a cheap flip phone. My response is usually... I remember a time when the main use of a phone was actually phone calls. lol
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"Yesterday I read a gem of an economic paper asserting that in the emerging information, amusement, service, and experience and attention economy, it is vital that private business capture ownership and control of the publics knowledge and its attending rent streams. Apparently its not bad enough that we become a third rate gulag of impoverished nitwits. They are going to charge us for the privilege."
--the late Joe Bageant
cadoman
(1,097 posts)Rather than being prodded to supply my phone number, leave google/yelp reviews, sign up for points/marketing, and just generally being harassed, embarrassed, and excluded the whole time I'm trying to transact.
I have seen poor people treated very badly at shops that profess to be inclusive but militantly exile anyone unable to transact w/the latest tech.
PeaceWave
(1,397 posts)jaxxon20
(9 posts)You are paying for that savings not in dollars but you are paying. You are the product. That store, knows where your house is. how far you travel to get to the store. When you go to the store. When and where you go on vacation. What you drink, When you have a child, when your family is pregnant, When you are sick. Every thing you buy tells the store a little more about you and that information is packaged and sold to somebody. Same with Google, Same with Amazon. I stopped shopping at the supermarket chain I used to work at because they required an APP to get their sale items and I saw their database in action.
Response to jaxxon20 (Reply #32)
Mosby This message was self-deleted by its author.
LeftInTX
(32,549 posts)I've heard prices are about 50% lower with the app.
I don't feel like installing all those apps...sigh...
OK Shoot me...junk food...
I do have an HEB app, that I used mostly during Covid. But when I was in the store trying to bring up their digital coupon, it kept redirecting me to a store 70 miles away! Different stores have different products and the product with the coupon wasn't available at the store 70 miles away! I did get 50% off the product when I checked out, so I did get my discount.
Oh well, that's life. I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. HEB has kinda gotten away from those digital deals, or maybe they just quit advertising them in the aisles.
CoopersDad
(3,076 posts)It's a feature, not a bug, to TPTB.
canetoad
(18,666 posts)Is disability. Hands, eyes and ears - all need to be in good shape to interact with a tiny mobile computing device. That disqualifies a good slice of seniors.
Not to mention those folk who just refuse to be at everyone's beck and call at any time. I'm not contactable when I'm on the beach, in the garden, in the bush..... most of the time actually. Other peoples problems can wait until I'm ready.
soandso
(1,631 posts)and that means all financial transactions and medical history. I've known this for at least 20 years and don't have a cell phone, though it's getting harder to get along w/o one.
peregrinus
(409 posts)Need a Safeway app to buy groceries? You are now beholden to Safeway and are likely to shop only there.
cadoman
(1,097 posts)Forcing people to use credit cards or phones is about the most exclusionary policy you can imagine. Disadvantaged people do not have time for credit applications or online payments. They don't have the cash to drop $1k on a smartphone to get "apps" that are now mandated to perform basic tasks. Many of them are not even familiar with how to use these tools and services.
Even things like interviewing for jobs now exclude people without phones and credit.
This is a HUGE problem that demands legislation.
Response to cadoman (Reply #18)
Name removed Message auto-removed
GP6971
(34,158 posts)Are you interested in getting on the ground floor for investing in a DU Pizza franchise?
GP6971
(34,158 posts)Did you go someplace exciting to recharge?
mahatmakanejeeves
(63,297 posts)I have a third generation Apple iPhone SE.
https://www.tracfone.com/phone/apple-iphone-se-3rd-gen-prepaid
It runs $190, and it's about to be updated to iOS 18.2.
Oh, darn, they've got free shipping now, and the red ones are back in stock.
As you can see, there are many phones that don't cost that much.
I pay about $80 annually to keep it active with Tracfone. I regularly use it to post at DU.
And good morning.
Sympthsical
(10,411 posts)Their weekly ads haven't had paper coupons in years. Instead, it's a listing of sales (which require the usual store card) and 4U - coupons you can only get when "clipping" items in the app or scanning codes in the weekly ad with your phone. Screenshot from my phone below to show how it works.
And I always think, "So, if you don't have a smart phone, groceries are more expensive?" And they're already expensive. So wtf.
As ever, being poor will cost you.
ProfessorGAC
(71,725 posts)But, the stores have a kiosk where coupons can be clipped right near the service desk.
So, people without a phone can still do it.
Sympthsical
(10,411 posts)We don't have that kind of kiosk. I've accidentally left my phone at home on occasion, grabbed the ad at the door, and asked the cashier if they could scan something. They wouldn't do it.
I don't know if that was store policy or the cashier didn't know/feel like it. But it was irksome.
ProfessorGAC
(71,725 posts)...is an Albertsons brand. I think Acme on the east coast is, too.
Wouldn't be surprised is Safeway is too. Albertsons is huge.
Our big store here is a regional chain. 20 or 25 stores in the south & west suburbs of Chicago.
Sympthsical
(10,411 posts)Sorry. The Jewel.
Growing up in the burbs, it was always Jewel vs. Dominick's, and we were firmly a Jewel people. My family still is. Whenever I visit, gotta go to Jewel for the nostalgia.
ProfessorGAC
(71,725 posts)There was one in the town where I grew up.
They were getting smoked by Jewel, then Safeway bought them.
Safeway changed the business model (price exclusively over quality) and this market rebelled.
Market share plummeted & the store closings began. Last store closed over 10 years ago.
Whole Foods bought several of the locations.
My mom mostly shopped at Jewel because it was a shorter drive, but went to Dominicks for meat fairly often. Or, I was sent there once I got my license.
LeftInTX
(32,549 posts)aisle.
I had a problem with the app because it thought I was 70 miles aways and the store there didn't have the same product etc.
ProfessorGAC
(71,725 posts)...each have their own website, so if the inventory doesn't apply to that location, there probably won't be a digital coupon.
I've never clipped one then couldn't buy when I got there.
moonscape
(5,442 posts)thriftier places to grocery shop but not anymore! I still do the deals 4 u thing for whatever items I buy that theyre luring me in with, but the best places to shop locally are old-school, no digital savings, and cheaper.
Bye Safeway!
peregrinus
(409 posts)Welcome to the technocracy!
Clouds Passing
(3,872 posts)milestogo
(19,660 posts)I like to use my computer.
And I really really hate it when organizations ONLY post their events on Facebook and assume the whole world is on Facebook.
I was on Facebook, now I am not, and I never will be again.
LeftInTX
(32,549 posts)I have both a FB page and website. Websites are much more work. In FB you create an event and it's done and when it's over, there is no online mess to clean up. On websites, events in the past, need to be removed or have some type of archive etc.
GenThePerservering
(2,675 posts)but something like 92% of the population use smart phones, at least some of the time.
Keeping infrastructure going for 8% of the population isn't really feasible. What needs to happen is greater device accesesibility and improved signal range. Getting a simple smartphone is not expensive - I only replace mine every five years or so.
And whomever that 'expert' was that screwed up the android phone upthread - he didn't know what he was doing. Even I can root a smart phone and get rid of a lot of rubbish and I'm no expert.
Also, being 65 is no excuse - come on - that's Bill Gates's generation.
Raine1967
(11,626 posts)And were great.
https://parisjetaime.com/eng/article/public-toilets-a696
"Free since 2006, Pariss 400 public toilets are available in every part of the capital. These sanisettes, designed by Patrick Jouin, are mostly open from 6am to 10pm, except for 150 of them on main roads, which are available 24/24."
This from DC is pure Classism. I saw one in Penn quarter over Thanksgiving weekend. People who complain about how awful homelessness is should realize this is no help at all.
Those that are housed always can find a bathroom to use.