Daniel Penny beams, crowd breaks out in applause as Marine vet is acquitted in subway chokehold death of Jordan Neely

[4th]

Daniel Penny beams, crowd breaks out in applause as Marine vet is acquitted in subway chokehold death of Jordan Neely
https://nypost.com/2024/12/09/us-news/daniel-penny-cleared-of-all-charges-in-jordan-neelys-death/

A Manhattan jury has cleared Daniel Penny of criminal wrongdoing in the chokehold death of Jordan Neely on a crowded subway — a caught-on-video killing that sparked fierce debate over the city’s mental health system and crime underground.

The courtroom erupted in applause as the panelists acquitted Penny of criminally negligent homicide — which could have put him behind bars for up to four years — in Neely’s chokehold death aboard a crowded uptown F train in May 2023.

“We the jury have come to a unanimous decision on county two,” the foreperson on the jury told the courtroom.

Penny immediately broke out a huge smile and turned to hug defense attorney Thomas Kenniff — even as Neely’s father, Andre Zachary, was escorted from the courtroom.

“Racist f—ing country,” one Black Lives Matter supporter yelled as she left the room. Another Neely supporter, turning to Penney, screamed, “It’s a small world, buddy,” before leaving the room.

...

[niyad]

1. May all involved receive everything they deserve.

[yagotme]

2. Perhaps some already have... nt

[Phoenix61]

3. Who do you think that is? nt

[yagotme]

4. Perhaps it's a vague reply to a vague reply... nt

[niyad]

5. Nothing vague about it. Most people have no difficulty understanding it.

[yagotme]

7. You were not specific about all those involved. Therefore, vague.

I was not specific in my reply. Therefore, vague. The other poster requested specifics on my vague post, and I gave him my answer.

[niyad]

9. Do keep trying. This is most amusing.

[yagotme]

10. I'm glad that I could entertain you in this manner.

Some entertainment is needed after the bleak past month.

[brush]

6. Come on, people. Have some lost their fucking minds?

This is white, male privilege. That's the huge elephant in the room everyone is ignoring.

Penny caused the death of an unarmed person who had touched no one. He should not get away with no punishment at all.

Lesser charges, ok, but no punishment as some are advocating. NOT OK.

What are we,in the jungle now and you can just kill some one?

We all know if the races of the two men was reversed, they'd throw the book at the Black guy.

[yagotme]

8. At least one of the individuals that assisted Penny in the videos I have seen

appeared to be a POC. Were they charged??? No. Neely was still technically alive when the 1st responders took over, and if Penny had him in a true "choke hold", and was actually trying to kill him, he was doing a pretty lousy job of it. Neely was threatening other passengers, and had allegedly thrown trash at them (Not touching anyone?), and passengers testified that they were fearful of Neely.

As far as the book, Penny faced 2 separate charges for 1 incident, and a jury of his peers basically threw them out. That's how our system is supposed to work. What SHOULD have happened to Penny, other than what did?

[brush]

11. As I said, Penny caused the death of an unarmed person who had touched no one.

Do I have to repeat that again? He caused Neely's death with a six minute choke hole.

There should be some punishment for that. I don't care who assisted him or anything else. We're not in the jungle. A person who caused another person's death should not go unpunished.

That should be plain as day to everyone.

[yagotme]

12. You and I will have to disagree, then.

A person who caused another person's death should not go unpunished.

I believe in a person's right to self defense. Apparently, you do not. Not without punishing the defender. But, what if it's a traffic accident? An unavoidable one? Should the driver of a vehicle be imprisoned for something they did not have any control over? Absolutes are, well, absolute.

[brush]

13. Ridiculous. A right of self-defense does not include choking someone who has not touched you and is unarmed...

until the person is nearly dead, and in fact did die...have you lost your humanity entirely?

I'll put it bluntly again, if the races of the choker and the dead guy were reversed, the Black guy would've had the book thrown at him.

Penny should be charged and convicted for causing the death of another human being..l.whatever lesser charge that is.

It smacks of racism strongly if he is not.

[yagotme]

16. Your statement was an absolute...

A person who caused another person's death should not go unpunished.

You didn't address my questions about this sooo...

A right of self-defense does not include choking someone who has not touched you and is unarmed

Self defense, and the defense of others. You must have missed the part about other passengers being fearful of Neely. And being unarmed, and being detained without arms, would be an equivalent force.

I'll put it bluntly again, if the races of the choker and the dead guy were reversed, the Black guy would've had the book thrown at him.

We don't know that for sure, guesses don't count, and I'll put it bluntly again, Penny was charged two offences for one incident. The prosecutor was TRYING to convict him, on anything.

Penny should be charged and convicted for causing the death of another human being..l.whatever lesser charge that is.

Sounds like you have already viewed all the evidence, conducted the trial, found him guilty, and are waiting to sentence him. What sentence do you wish to impose on him?

It smacks of racism strongly if he is not

So, if a case doesn't go the way YOU feel it should go, it's racism. OK.

[brush]

23. I don't think you've lived in NYC. If did you'd know the rules upon encountring a crazy person on the subway.

First of all, never make eye contact with them so they don't zero in on you. Second, move to the far end of the subway car because they usually smell. All NYers who ride the subway know that unwashed smell as soon as they get in subway car, and you also notice that everyone else has moved to the opposite end of the car.

You mind your own business, even move to the next car through the rear door if you want to.

One does not engage with them, especially touching someone who has not touched you. Apparently ex-Marine Penny, obviously not a NYer, did not know the rules. And apparently many others on this thread don't either.

[yagotme]

26. I like the Will Smith rule:

"Don't START nothin, won't BE nothin'"

Perhaps your subway rules need revision, if it's OK to verbally and (on occasion) physically assault individuals you are locked in a metal tube with. Just my 2 cents.

[brush]

31. Ya just don't know do ya? Too many people are packin' nowadays. Best mind you business and/or move to the next car.

Obviously not a NYer right?

[yagotme]

32. No, I'm not from NY.

That doesn't mean I have to throw common decency and civility out the window if I happen to visit. Perhaps a list of these rules needs to be posted on the NY visitor's website. I'm sure that will certainly help tourism.

Best mind you business and/or move to the next car.

And, if that doesn't work, and you're followed???

[brush]

34. Pls. common sense tells you not to choke someone for six minutes who hasn't touched you.

Ya don't have to be from NY to know that.

[MichMan]

140. Got it. Just walk away as it's not your problem.

See an elderly person being robbed and brutalized or a woman sexually assaulted ? Too bad for them.

No reason to get involved right?

[BeerBarrelPolka]

35. +1,000

I cannot comment further for risk of being barred.

[Cirsium]

128. That is no justification for murder

"People were afraid" is no justification for the murder of an unarmed man who had touched no one.

[yagotme]

142. Read the whole thread.

I posted a paragraph from NY law, several times. "Touching" isn't a prerequisite.

[Cirsium]

146. So what?

I am not talking about NY law.

[yagotme]

150. If you want to arrest, charge, prosecute, and mete out punishment to someone in NY,

you'd BETTER be talking about NY law.

[Cirsium]

164. irrelevant

I don't want to "arrest, charge, prosecute, and mete out punishment to someone in NY." I want to engage people's humanity right here in this discussion.

[brush]

133. Give it a rest. Read posts 127 and 131. You have no idea how racist some in NY are.

[yagotme]

143. "Some" doesn't equal "all".

Show me, SPECIFICALLY, where racism was involved. Show me how Penny restraining Neely with a neck hold is racist, and in the same breath, protecting POC is racist, also.

[brush]

145. Stop defending racism. White male privileged Penny caused the death of a Black man...

yet was found innocent of all charges. There's a dead body but he walks free while getting applauded. No charges at all.

Racism pure and simple. You know nothing about NY. We POCs who live/lived there know, as cited in the many examples in the posts I told you to look at. This case is just another example. There should've been some charges.

Why do so many whites defend obvious racism?

[yagotme]

148. There WERE charges. 2, total. He was found innocent by a jury of his peers.

How many witnesses were POC? How many jurors were POC? Are POC racism supporters? Is the POC that assisted in holding Neely down a racist, also?

[brush]

153. Eyes open please. It's obvious racism. Wake up.

[yagotme]

154. Again, I ask, show me where it is patently, obvious racism.

Just because one is white, the other a POC, doesn't mean racism is involved. I need more proof than just that.

[brush]

155. No matter what is shown, posted or referred to you, you come back with the same stuff.

Live with who you are. It's you. Be happy.

[yagotme]

156. You have NEVER come back with anything solid about this being racist, other than the color difference.

Just your opinion that it is.

Live with who you are. It's you. Be happy.

Same for you.

[brush]

157. Be who you are. Watch this video. Hear how the cops treated Penn buddy-buddy.

but I don't expect anything different from you.

One more question. Did you vote for trump?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/132136828

[yagotme]

158. I guess the POC witnesses were racist, too.

Along with the POC guy that helped restrain Neely. I've covered this already, but, as to some of our earlier back and forths, I seem to need to keep pointing out the same facts than you seem to want to ignore.

[brush]

159. Be who you are. Did you vote for trump?

[yagotme]

160. Should I even answer?

You seem to ignore my direct questions, and view anything I say with incredulity, so I am of the belief that no matter what I say, you're going to believe what you believe. As far as the video goes, the interviewer got a few facts wrong, so I'm not sure of her overall effectiveness, and having a family member opine about Penny's treatment, when he wasn't actually present, isn't high on the case winning scale. Tell me, if Neely had received the time in prison that he SHOULD have (like you believe Penny should), would he be alive today?

[brush]

161. I noticed you didn't answer if you voted for trump.

[yagotme]

162. I did, in a way, if you were paying attention. nt

[brush]

167. I suspected as much, so hardcore defending obvious racism.

[Keepthesoulalive]

127. It is New York

Which has never been a beacon of justice for black or Hispanic people. Think of the past mayors and the draconian policies they enacted. Please don’t get me started on NYPD.

[brush]

131. I know exactly what you're talking about. I remember "Guiliani Time" and the racist cop/...

assaulting and raping Abner Louiema with a broomstick, Patrick Dorisman getting beat up and Amadiu Diallo getting shot up 40 some times in his doorway and killed reach for his key. Some of these naive people on this thread have no idea how racist some are in NY.

Imagine, applauding the guy who caused another man's death and getting off Scott free.

[Keepthesoulalive]

134. Stop and frisk

The central park 5. Gentrification , the village and Harlem could be any street in any city . They have no soul.

[brush]

135. Yep, all of that. And we could go on and on and on.

[DenaliDemocrat]

14. So you're not allowed to respond if threatened?

The man was threatening everyone. I feel bad because mentally ill people do not get the care they desperately need. I reject the premise that threatening someone does not allow reprisals.

[brush]

18. Do ya understand plain English? Penny was not touched. The guy was unarmed.

Last edited Mon Dec 9, 2024, 02:42 PM - Edit history (1)

If Penny had been touched/attacked, ok, then he should protect himself. Is everyone forgetting what assault is? You can't just choke hold someone within and inch of life without being charged.

That's what Penny did.

See post 23.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

80. He was charged

And he was found not guilty.

[brush]

81. I heard. So it's open season on disoriented, unarmed people...

who yell that they are hungry? One can have good intentions but go too far and accidentally kill a person but you get off Scott free. Nothing, not even a couple of months in jail, or at least probation?

Something is wrong with that.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

84. We'll have to agree to disagree

He was doing much more than just yelling that he was hungry. He was threatening people verbally, and acting in a very aggressive manner, and a number of people on the train felt threatened by him.

[brush]

95. You're correct. Bit the dead guy's family feels great about i...

the guy who didn't have enough sense to not choke someone for six minutes goes Scott free.

[BeerBarrelPolka]

97. Why

Why didn't the "dead guys family" have enough sense to get him the mental help he needed to keep him off the streets and prevent more harm than he already committed?

[brush]

99. Oh please. Blame others but not the guy who caused the death.

The guy had people helping him hold the guy down. Just stop choking for God's sake.

[BeerBarrelPolka]

102. You're

You're the one who brought up the dead guy's family, not me.

[brush]

103. And you're the one who blamed them instead of the guy who caused Neely's death.

[BeerBarrelPolka]

104. Maybe

Maybe they are to blame? If they knew what a proven threat he was and did nothing about it, they are culpable. I have no idea his relationship with his family though, so it's speculation.

[electric_blue68]

121. Since we know Nothing about what his family has, has not done don't go judging them...

Sometimes people with mental illness hate the side effects of some the meds, and stop taking them. A family can't monitor everything.

[DenaliDemocrat]

85. I understand verbal threats can result in actions

And they are legal.

[brush]

86. The man is dead, for God's sake. Penny didn't have enough sense to know choking someone for...

six minutes is not good for a person's life. In fact if not for that choking the man could still be alive. He was unarmed, didn't attack anyone, kept yelling he was hungry...not a cause to be nearly choked to death. In fact, the man did die.

Wouldn't want to be that choker's wife or girlfriend as he might lose control again.

That seems to be a foreign concept to many here.

[DenaliDemocrat]

89. Whatever

You can’t go around threatening violence and throwing stuff at people. I had a guy road rage at me and rushed my vehicle. I was scared. If I had been armed, I probably would have shot him.

[brush]

90. You would have shot him? Guess who's in the same boat you're in?

[DenaliDemocrat]

100. If you come screaming at my car

Waving your arms and slamming the hood- yeah. I am prepare to defend myself. I’m old and have a disability.

[brush]

101. Your car was not able to move?

[DenaliDemocrat]

105. My state has No Duty to Retreat

You should Google that term. You seem to espouse a belief that you have to be struck or actually in the middle of being assaulted before you have a right to defend yourself. That’s wrong. I suggest you take a CCW course. They explain it in great detail.

BLUF. If you approve aggressively, screaming, threatening, and throwing things making me fear for my life - I am allowed to defend with deadly force.

You may not like it - but that’s the law.

[brush]

107. It's might be just me but I'd rather move instead of blasting away at someone.

Sounds like you prefer the other option.

[DenaliDemocrat]

109. I can't move

You should be thankful you can. Not all of us are so blessed. You seem to think what is right for you works for everyone. Healthy person privilege. Be thankful you aren’t disabled.

[brush]

111. I meant move in your car.

[DenaliDemocrat]

113. You have an excuse for everything

Admit it. You don’t acknowledge your own privilege

[brush]

114. Sorry, we're not on the same wave length. I don't want complexities in life involving shooting someone.

[DenaliDemocrat]

115. Yeah - you don't HAVE to stand in harm's way

I DO! And you think you have a right to judge even though you don’t walk in my shoes.

We are on different wavelengths and there could have been people on that subway just like me.

Quit being so sanctimonious. You’re truth isn’t everyone’s.

[brush]

116. Dude, I'm not judging you. I just asked if you could move away by driving away.

Nothing more.

[DenaliDemocrat]

117. Uh huh

Suuuuure

[brush]

118. What are you so angry and bitter about? I don't know you...

never did anything to you or corresponded with you before just asking if you could get away from a situation by driving away.

I don't get it.

[electric_blue68]

124. Why are you casting negative motives on this poster? IF you were in a car even if disabled could you move? Maybe you...

could not. That could make you feel vunerable.
But you're seemingly not clear about whether you were inside your car or not unless I misread your posts. Obviously a scary experience if someone's screaming and pounding on your car while you're inside.

And while not permanently disabled I have been in the processes of recovering from several sprained ankles w cane in hand gingerly making my way through the subway. Kind of nervous, not able to move fast, or turn fast at all.

[brush]

94. Word to the wise, unwise really. Have enough sense to not choke someone for 6 minutes.

That's just dumb.

We should've all learned that from watching the cop who killed George Floyd by choking him with a knee on the neck.

[Cirsium]

129. Thanks

Thanks for your patience on this. The posts on this thread justify the murder are horrifying.

[brush]

132. Thank you. I have to push back. The guy getting applauded and getting off Scott free is just too much.

[Cirsium]

149. I appreciate what you are doing

I am too disgusted to engage in the "debate."

[brush]

152. Thank you. Glad there are some who know injustice when it stares them in the face.

[FBaggins]

92. "Touched" is not the standard

There are no crimes that can someone to jail for life that are not threats to the other passengers. And, of course, we now know that he had assaulted multiple people in the subway in recent years.

It was not at all unreasonable to treat him as a threat (since he was). That doesn’t mean that it’s ok to cause his death - but it means it isn’t a crime.

[brush]

93. Have enough sense to not choke someone for 6 minutes.

That's not rocket science for God's sake. There were others helping to restraint the guy. Just hold him down, don't keep choking.

[FBaggins]

96. Sounds like reasonable advice

But he isn’t a trained law-enforcement officer. Anyone is free to criticize his decisions - but not free to imagine that their criticism standard carries the same weight as the standards for which a violation is a criminal offense.

He should have done better - but he isn’t guilty of a crime for failing to do so.

[brush]

98. Not being guilty of a crime? He caused the death of another human being.

Something is wrong with him going Scott free.

No jail time, no house arrest, not probation even?

IMO that's not justice.

[brush]

27. See post 23. There are subway rules NYers know.

[yagotme]

33. So, violation of unwritten subway rules by non-NY'ers should lead to imprisonment.

Gotcha.

[brush]

36. You're not making sense. If you kill someone who has not touched you...

and is unarmed, of course there should be punishment.

[yagotme]

40. You're missing the point.

It's lawful to restrain someone if they are being aggressive towards others, whether they touched you or not. Only matters if the others are in fear of death or harm. It's not like Penny took a gun out and started blazing away. If he had been intent on killing Neely, he was doing a bad job of it, as I stated earlier. Could have killed him a lot quicker if that had been the true motive. And, for arguments sake, in case you missed it, Neely was still technically alive when Penny released him.

[brush]

42. Ok, Ms/Mr/Miss/Mrs police officer, show me that law in the books where that's Ok.

You might find it under assault, because that's what non-policeman Penny did. No one was touched...but the guy he caused the death of. No way was it his duty to protect others, not being a cop.

I understand the jury is now considering a lesser charge.

IMO they'll come down with some form of punishment.

[yagotme]

45. Here ya go, Art 35 NY Penal Law.

https://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article35.php
S 35.10 Justification; use of physical force generally.
6. A person may, pursuant to the ensuing provisions of this article,
use physical force upon another person in self-defense or defense of a
third person, or in defense of premises, or in order to prevent larceny
of or criminal mischief to property, or in order to effect an arrest or
prevent an escape from custody.

One of several paragraphs that would possibly cover this situation. Perhaps a perusal of your own state's criminal laws would be enlightening for you.

No one said "duty" until you just did. And, if your post is correct, they are still trying to throw "the book" at him.

[brush]

47. Nope,no one was touched. Guy was unarmed.

Penny committed assault on an unarmed person. Soon as Neely touched someone, then ok. Macho, ex-Marine had no call to touch him until he assaulted someone.

[yagotme]

51. Here's the paragraph again, since it appears you didn't read it.

6. A person may, pursuant to the ensuing provisions of this article,
use physical force upon another person in self-defense or defense of a
third person, or in defense of premises, or in order to prevent larceny
of or criminal mischief to property, or in order to effect an arrest or
prevent an escape from custody

Show me in this paragraph where "touch" is a prerequisite. I'll wait.

[brush]

57. A-h-h-h-h-h sorry. Neely was not trying to commit larceny.

..."in order to prevent larceny
of or criminal mischief to property, or in order to effect an arrest or
prevent an escape from custody."

Wrong again.

He'll be convicted of some lesser charge. The jury is convening now.

[yagotme]

59. Is reading the bottom half of a paragraph the way you make opinions?

There's a whole top half of that paragraph that knocks your argument out of the water, but I guess that's too much to comment on...

[brush]

63. Be clear, what knocks my argument out of the water?

Never mind really as it's water under the bridge now. The jury I understand has found him not guilty of anything.

Apparently you can choke a person to within an inch of death, death really, and go free if you have white, male privilege.

Only in America. He got away with killing the guy.

[yagotme]

65. Or if the person you are detaining is threatening bodily harm to other individuals, that may not be

able to quickly or readily escape.

Be clear, what knocks my argument out of the water?

The top half of the paragraph, which you have failed to address several times now. Here is the top part trimmed, might make it easier for you:

6. A person may, pursuant to the ensuing provisions of this article,
use physical force upon another person in self-defense or defense of a
third person

Trimmed, highlighted, for your reading enjoyment...

[brush]

67. The case is over. Penny got away with killing him.

But Neely was just crying out he was hungry, not threatening to assault someone.

White, male privilege, and it smacks of racism to me.

[yagotme]

68. Yes, I'm aware you see racism everywhere.

But Neely was just crying out he was hungry, not threatening to assault someone.

Not according to the multiple witnesses that were actually present. Were you there? Have some unknown insight to the motive? Maybe you should have let the prosecutor know of your witness testimony, to make a better case...

[brush]

71. Ok. Yelling you're hungry is threatening bodily harm now?

The macho guy got carried away and choke a guy to death. That's really the bottom line.

[yagotme]

72. You must have missed the part about witnesses claiming that he was THREATENING them.

I kind of alluded to that in my previous posts. Again, your eyewitness testimony might have done wonders for the prosecution...

[brush]

73. I'd like to know what was said besides yelling he was hungry? Do you that?

But it's really beside the point, Penny got away with murder. A man is dead from his actions and he walks away.

Smacks of racism.

[yagotme]

74. Here's some: (watch video)

https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/daniel-penny-trial-jordan-neely-witness-testimony-day-4/

She demonstrated for the jury how she saw Neely lunging at people. The witness said when Penny took Neely to the ground, "I felt very relieved because I was scared for my son."

[brush]

75. It's like the prosecutor said, his intentions were good but he went too far.

Too far.

It's as simple as that. The only diffence between Penny, Kyle Rittenhouse and George Zimmerman is that he's viewed as a sympathetic figure, not menacing like the other two.

He chokd a man half to death, who died because of his actions, an got off.

Argue all you want, IMO he's no diff than Zimmerman and Rittenhouse except some see him as a sympathetic figure...mostly white I'd say.

He cause the death of another human, good intentions or not.

[yagotme]

76. So, do you agree now that my statements were correct?

You're switching to the statements of the prosecutor, the person that is trying to get him locked up, so it seems you're switching tack. Not sure she has his best defense rights in mind.

And, I guess he's a sympathetic character, because it seems his intent was to protect the innocent.

[brush]

77. I'm not switching anything. I've been very clear that there should be some form or...

punishment for Penny.

[yagotme]

78. Even if he's not found guilty of anything???

That's really strange...

[BeerBarrelPolka]

43. Yes

Brush (who I enjoy reading) is way off on what they're writing. Totally.

I've been a bodyguard, boxer, wrestler, martial artist, taught self defense to all sorts of agencies and civilians, trained amateur and professional fighters. I have trained World Champions. In all honesty, no one on this site has my knowledge on this subject. You are correct in stating he did not have a "choke hold" on for 6 minutes. He had him in a restraint and at times was strangling him. A proper strangle (universally miscalled a choke hold) will render someone unconscious in seconds and death usually in 60-120 seconds.

Again for Brush, no one needs to touch you for you to defend yourself, up to and including deadly force. If the threats make you or someone else fear for your life, you can enact appropriate counter measures.

And for the record, the owners of this site have my name since I'm a star member. They can google who I am and see exactly what I do and my accomplishments.

[brush]

52. I disagree. NYers know to not engage with crazy passengers on the subway.

Not make eye contact, move to the other end of the car, or move to the next car thru the rear door. Ex-Marine Penny, not a NYer, committed assault in an unarmed man who had not touched anyone.

The jury is convening and IMO they'll convict him of a lesser charge.

What he did resulted in a man dying. If not for what he did, Neely would not have died.

[MichMan]

56. The jury acquitted him on the lessor charge; the case is over

[brush]

60. That's foul. Open season on unarmed and disoriented and apparenty insane people.

IMO he should not have gotten off Scott free. White male privilege. Smacks of racism to me too.

[yagotme]

53. Well, after posting a paragraph from the law, and posting it again,

they just don't seem to get it. TY for your post.

[Quiet Em]

44. Why do you think the faint pulse detected has any relevance?

Neely died.

The chokehold caused the death. If you are attempting to blame drugs, like some did for George Floyd's death, you are wrong. In both cases these men died from asphyxiation.

This is not a happy ending. A man died.

[yagotme]

46. Because, if the true intent had been to kill Neely, Penny was doing a horrible job.

Being in a hold like that causes stress on the body, and adding illegal drugs to the mix makes it even worse. A neck restraint hold on a healthy person for several minutes may just end with a certain level of discomfort, but chronic drug use/current high will just make things a lot worse.

[Quiet Em]

49. Penny was successful in killing him.

Jordan Neely is dead.

[yagotme]

54. Technically, he was alive when Penny walked away.

He died while under the care of the 1st responders. I guess we should charge them, too. They COULD be racists...

[Quiet Em]

61. What?

Where the heck is that comment coming from?

Anyway, Neely died from asphyxiation.

[yagotme]

62. Fact: 1st responders detected a faint pulse upon arrival, administered

Norcan and CPR. Pronounced dead at hospital. Between 1st responders' arrival, and arrival at hospital, he died. Penny was not detained at that time.

[Quiet Em]

64. I was questioning you calling the paramedics racist.

Race absolutely played a role in his death, and is obviously happening in the reaction to this verdict. But the paramedics have not been accused of racism that I'm aware of.

He would not have died if his oxygen was not cut off for over five minutes. The medical examiner was quite clear on that.

[yagotme]

66. If "race absolutely played a role in his death", and he died in the care of the

1st responders, well, I guess you may see where I'm coming from, as he was "still alive" on their arrival. (I'm being facetious, by the way, I don't believe they were racist. Nor do I believe Penny was, either.)

He would not have died if his oxygen was not cut off for over five minutes.

He would have died if his oxygen had been cut off for TWO minutes. Penny was doing a poor job of killing him, as I have stated several times, if that was his TRUE intent. 5 minutes of TRUE oxygen deprivation, in Neely's condition, would have resulted in NO pulse upon arrival.

[Quiet Em]

70. Penny succeeded in killing him.

Jordan Neely is dead.

[electric_blue68]

123. As a NCY'r who Has been in a Subway Car with some loud people w mental illness feeling very uncomfortable...

...and while allegedly throwing garbage at people (ick!!!) still not touching anyone, esp Penny - Penny should have been sentenced to some time. Bad verdict!

[yagotme]

141. Read post #45. NY law.

"Touching" isn't listed as a requirement. Ask the witnesses how THEY feel about Penny's actions. (You don't have to. It's in their testimony. They approved. Even the POC.)

[ForgedCrank]

58. They already

have gotten everything they deserve. Found not guilty by a jury if his peers and released.

[niyad]

83. Sighhhh

[Sundance1220]

15. I knew, from the beginning,

12 NYers would not convict him. And frankly, unless you've been stuck underground in a metal tube with an insane person who is threatening people and throwing stuff at people, you really have no idea what you're talking about. I feel for the man who died who should have been getting professional help but unless you've been on a subway in this kind of situation, you really shouldn't be commenting on what should and shouldn't be done when passengers already testified they felt threatened (which is why he wasn't convicted).

[comradebillyboy]

19. 100% agree.

From everything I have read about this case I would have voted to acquit if I were on the jury. Being non white or mentally ill is not a license to threaten and terrorize other passengers on the subway.

[BeerBarrelPolka]

38. Spot on

[BeerBarrelPolka]

37. Totally agree

[electric_blue68]

125. I HAVE been in that Situation; several times. Very Uncomfortable!!! B&b NYC'r...

riding the subway steadily for about 57 yrs.

Icky that Neely was throwing garbage. Yes, scary if he was lunging at passengers!

Still, a 6 min chokehold? Wrong. Penny should have received some kind of punishment.

[Sundance1220]

139. They overcharged

Battery wasn't "sexy" enough but he likely would have been convicted.

[Elessar Zappa]

17. Not surprised at this verdict or the reaction.

[tenderfoot]

20. So murder is okay now?

[sarisataka]

21. It is very victim dependent nt

[Emile]

22. If I ever see Kyle Rittenhouse I'll ask him.

[Bonx]

24. Who was charged with murder?

[tenderfoot]

25. Found one of the cheerers

[Bonx]

28. Found a person that doesn't understand our legal system

[tenderfoot]

29. Am I raining on your celebration?

eom

[DBoon]

30. open season on the homeless

It's OK to strangle a homeless person if someone thinks they are a threat.

In fact you will become a hero for killing a mentally disturbed homeless person.

[brush]

39. Thank you. Why are so few on this thread who don't seem to get that...

it's not OK to choke hold someone to an inch of their death, in fact he did die.

I'm losing faith in people, and of all places here on DU. Isn't this supposed to be a progressive, enlightened site?

It's smacking of racism to me, that big elephant in the room, because we all know it the choker was Black and the dead man White, most would be rooting for the book being thrown at the Black guy.

That's America for you, and apparently DU too. What have we become?

[Keepthesoulalive]

136. What we have always been

Fear and color makes for a deadly combination. They elected Koch and Giuliani because they wanted law and order. They had no intention of fixing the cause of New Yorks problems they just papered over them and made the tourist areas safe. For people of color it was intimidation and watch your step. There is nothing for people with mental health issues and affordable housing barely exists. Fear sells and some people believe safety justifies anything, just ask trump voters.

[brush]

137. Yeah, it goes way back in NY. "Giuliani Time", trump and the Central Park Five.

Many on this thread have no idea.

[yagotme]

41. What if SEVERAL someone's thought he was a threat?

Does that change the parameters?

[DBoon]

48. yes, then it becomes a lynch mob

and if the mobs succeeds in killing the threatening person, they will all become heros

[yagotme]

50. I think your definition of that term, and mine, are quite different.

Especially in that scenario.

[mountain grammy]

87. I'm very afraid that's true.

a man was sentenced to life in prison yesterday for open firing at panhandlers in Lakewood CO last year. killing one of them.

[electric_blue68]

126. Oh, dear.

[JohnSJ]

79. I won't weigh in on this, but I find it ironic how some had no problem rationalizing the killing of the UHC executive a

few days ago.

[PeaceWave]

88. Bingo. Total double standard.

[Raine]

138. Exactly nt

[Elessar Zappa]

163. I didn't see a lot of people rationalizing the CEO's death.

What I did see is that the murderer should be held accountable while at the same time not giving one single fuck that the sociopathic greedy asshole is now taking a dirt nap. That’s the position that I hold.

[Skittles]

82. six minute choke hold

about as heroic as shooting someone in the back

[PeaceWave]

91. The court of public opinion doesn't matter. He was acquitted by a jury...

And a Manhattan jury at that. We can't be hypocrites and praise the work of a Manhattan jury that found Donald Trump guilty on 34 counts but then claim conspiracy or racism regarding another Manhattan jury that acquitted Daniel Penny of murder/manslaughter. Case closed.

[Ilikepurple]

122. The word hypocrite sure has become popular around here.

We can’t accept the theories of special and general relativity by Einstein but then claim Alex Jones’s theories are suspect. They were both created by humans. Case closed. I’m guessing those last two words are some sort of magic performative utterance to end discussion.

[Kilgore]

106. Perspective from CNN

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/06/us/jordan-neely-subway-death-saturday/index.html

"Prior to his killing, Neely had a lengthy arrest record with New York police, a law enforcement source told CNN’s John Miller, including 42 arrests on charges including petty larceny, jumping subway turnstiles, theft, and three unprovoked assaults on women in the subway between 2019 and 2021."

The above is not a justification for what happened. But there seems to be a view that he was an average guy which isn't correct either.

[Quiet Em]

108. Jordan Neely suffered with mental illness and went into deep despair when his mother

was choked to death by her boyfriend while Jordan was sleeping in his bedroom.

[Kilgore]

112. Misdirected anger

The anger needs to be directed at local/state government for not passing laws and providing a way to get Neely off the streets and into a mental facility.

If that had happened, then none or this would have occurred. It's not like there wasn't precedent based on his history.

[Quiet Em]

119. Misdirected anger from who?

It's very difficult to get someone mental health help if they are reluctant. There used to be a man who used to come to the kid's bus stop and yell and complain when he was off his medicine but we parents never felt the need to choke him to death.

[Kilgore]

120. Exactly my point

You shouldn't have to. Ideally there would be some sort of mechanism in place to get that person help and off the streets. It's above my pay grade, maybe a squad of guys in white coats with butterfly nets, really have no idea how. Just know what we now have is F-up and has to change.

[Cirsium]

130. He is a murder victim

It doesn't matter what kind of guy he is.

[yagotme]

144. Would your opinion be different if he was actually committing assault against a mother and her child?

And the only way to stop him was to restrain him like that? Or do you just let him "go about his business" until someone else is severely hurt, or dies. Neely had been arrested numerous times, some for assault with injury. HE received no punishment for his crimes. Who's fault is that? Perhaps, if he had been locked up, he could have received some treatment for his addictions. He would have at least had the opportunity to "dry out".

[Cirsium]

147. No idea what is going on in your mind

Seriously.

[yagotme]

151. I'm asking if your opinion still stands, with different scenarios in play.

Sorry if you didn't comprehend that.

[Cirsium]

165. It is not clear

It is not clear what you are trying to say, sorry. I'll do my best.

You are talking about a couple of things in your post. It is not clear what the connection or relevance might be of those things. One is a hypothetical where someone was being assaulted. Of course in that case intervention by a third party is warranted. But even then murder, if it can be avoided, is not justified.

Then you go on to say "Neely had been arrested numerous times, some for assault with injury." That may be, but is irrelevant. It does not justify killing him.

Next we get "HE received no punishment for his crimes. Who's fault is that?" So what then, should we kill the prosecutor or whomever put him back on the street? You know, to protect people from violent fenders. I mean what the hell is your point? The law didn't work so it's time for extrajudicial killings?

Lastly, we get this: "Perhaps, if he had been locked up, he could have received some treatment for his addictions. He would have at least had the opportunity to 'dry out.'"

So lieu of that, kill him?

[Blue_Tires]

110. Why are people surprised?

Were they really expecting something different?

[Cirsium]

166. Ahhhhhhhhhhh

I hadn't followed this case. I didn't follow the OJ case either, back in the day, and like with this case I initially could not understand why there was such an uproar and so much interest about the case. I didn't know then that his wife was white. I witnessed white crowds gathered around TV sets in bars, restaurants and coffee houses cheering and booing at every little twist and turn in the trial. It was grotesque.

I just discovered that the victim in this case, Jordan Neely, was Black. Who here is naive enough to believe that racism does not play a powerful role in the discussions about this, as it does in just about every discussion in the US about crime, politics and justice? Not I.

Today, still, in the year 2024, it goes on, the same ugly mob mentality. It is shameful.

I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice.

Martin Luther King Jr.

Now, it could well be that the choke hold was a last resort and was the only way to protect the other passengers from harm. I wasn't there and I was not on the jury. I am not addressing that. I am addressing the ghoulish commentary by people right here, and elsewhere around the country. I find it despicable.