General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJust Sit There Passively
And don't get too angry at CEOs and billionaires and millionaires when they keep grinding you into the dust and they keep getting wealthier. It's a lot easier to take that type of position when you are ridiculously wealthy and/or a political elite living a life of privilege.
Billionaires and millionaires never have to worry about being denied healthcare. Or going broke because of medical bills.
Or having your neighborhood poisoned with forever chemicals. Or only eating heavily processed cheap food using ingredients banned anywhere else in the world because that's all you can afford.
Those moral choices are easier when you are on the right side of income disparity and you never have any concerns and your voice is always heard.
I don't care what they say or do, billionaires and robber baron CEOs are not our friends. While I personally have no been pushed past my point of no return, I'm cognizant that some are being pushed way paste their breaking point. While I don't endorse violence, I understand the frustration and sense of hopelessness in these situations. Im not losing any sleep over it.
Attilatheblond
(4,411 posts)are the people pushing policies that will make Americans a 'ramen nation' because all real food will be beyond the family budget soon.
FirstLight
(14,270 posts)My son and his girlfriend just drove their RV halfway across the country to park it in front of my house because they were in such a bad situation living and parking lots with a 2 yr old...
My son just told me that being here with me for the last 2 days has been the first time in months that they have actually eaten three meals a day. That normally they would feed the baby morning and evening and each of them would have one can of food to eat for the entire day. My son would some days just eat green beans because that's all they had.
We may not have a race war coming, I believe it's going to be a class war. And honestly I'm mad as hell and I don't want to take it anymore so fuck those assholes...
They better watch out for the rage of a million people or more coming directly at their millionaire asses.
Attilatheblond
(4,411 posts)I am truly sorry your son and his family are so bad off. I fear the economy will get worse with GOP in charge, and so the 'economic draft' will likely swell the ranks of the military the rich will depend on to protect their asses from the masses.
Maybe the Elon Musk-i-vites don't recall how the Soviet Army refused to shoot their mothers and grandmothers no so long ago.
Much as I miss my husband, I am glad he did not live beyond the first 3 months of Trump's first administration. Pretty sure I am unlikely to make it thru TCF's second. Also pretty sure TCF won't either.
MadameButterfly
(1,854 posts)economic freedom. And then he gets pushback for focussing on poor and working class without prioritizing race. Suddenly we are waking up and everyone is parroting his message as if they made it up.
Not accusing you, Attila, I am agreeing.
Attilatheblond
(4,411 posts)I know you are agreeing and phrasing it a bit differently. That is a good practice as it is a way to get more consensus. Different people will see things from different viewpoints, so offering such views is key to getting the message across.
SalamanderSleeps
(677 posts)The pot is boiling.
MadameButterfly
(1,854 posts)just voted for Trump. The people who are really down on average don't know who to blame.
How do we communicate so the pot boiling over favors Dems.
Silent Type
(7,140 posts)You think health insurance is bad, check out nursing homes.
Bobstandard
(1,688 posts)Tweedy
(1,198 posts)For an injury to his back
Or his treatment was delayed.
You have to be very rich indeed to self insure.
Silent Type
(7,140 posts)besides maybe he should have blamed the doctors.
Not to mention, he apparently could have paid if there were, in fact, denials. Think his unabomereque manifesto would have said something if that were a reason.
Tweedy
(1,198 posts)Maybe his treatment was delayed. Idk. Maybe it was the experience of navigating the finance industry known as health insurance. Maybe he met others truly screwed.
Whatever his reasons, he is off to jail for life in nearly every scenario I can imagine.
TommyT139
(731 posts)I can easily see some idealistic person (as he clearly is) who was able to get needed healthcare, but who sees or knew someone not so fortunate -- being outraged at the unfairness of the system. Not necessarily from guilt, but from empathy.
Silent Type
(7,140 posts)Probably should have just burned down his family's nursing home business if you ask me (after evacuating patients).
You think insurance is bad, walk through a Medicaid nursing home.
LeftInTX
(30,314 posts)If you have a spinal issue (unless it's an emergency type fracture, spinal cord issues etc) conservative treatment is the first option. Surgery sucks and there are NO guarantees that it will work or decrease pain. In fact, in many cases the surgery makes it worse. Taking the time to plan out a surgery is time well spent.
I waited nine months to have my knee fixed.
I waited one year for my back and guess what?
I regret having it done on my back.
I was better off before.
Too many people are sold on "You need surgery" The overwhelming majority of spinal fusions are for "pain", when the actual cause of the pain is often small nerve fibers
In this case, he very likely needed surgery because it appears he has spondylolisthesis.
Here is what is recommended in the UK National Health Service where they have universal health care:
Common treatments include:
avoiding activities that make symptoms worse, such as bending, lifting, athletics and gymnastics
taking anti-inflammatory painkillers such as ibuprofen or stronger painkillers on prescription
steroid injections in your back to relieve pain, numbness and tingling in your leg
physiotherapy to strengthen and stretch the muscles in your lower back, tummy and legs
The GP may refer you to a physiotherapist, or you can refer yourself in some areas.
Waiting times for physiotherapy on the NHS can be long. You can also get it privately.
Surgery for spondylolisthesis
The GP may refer you to a specialist for back surgery if other treatments do not work.
Types of surgery include:
spinal fusion the slipped bone (vertebra) is joined to the bone below with metal rods, screws and a bone graft
lumbar decompression a procedure to relieve pressure on the compressed spinal nerves
The operation is done under general anaesthetic, which means you will not be awake.
Recovery from surgery can take several weeks, but if often improves many of the symptoms of spondylolisthesis.
Talk to your surgeon about the risks and benefits of spinal surgery
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/spondylolisthesis/#:~:text=Spondylolisthesis%20is%20where%20one%20of,common%20in%20the%20lower%20back.
I'm surprised there are waits for physical therapy in the UK. I can get an appointment the next day!
From the American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons
Reduce pain
Allow a recent pars fracture to heal
Return the patient to sports and other daily activities
Nonsurgical Treatment
For most patients with spondylolysis and low-grade spondylolisthesis, back pain and other symptoms will improve with nonsurgical treatment.
Nonsurgical treatment may include:
Rest. Avoiding sports and other activities that place excessive stress on the lower back for a period of time can often help improve back pain and other symptoms.
Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs). NSAIDs such as ibuprofen and naproxen can help reduce swelling and relieve back pain.
Physical therapy. Specific exercises can help improve flexibility, stretch tight hamstring muscles, and strengthen muscles in the back and abdomen.
Bracing. Some patients may need to wear a back brace for a period of time to limit movement in the spine and allow a recent pars fracture the opportunity to heal. Although athletes wtih sudden or acute onset of pain are candidates for brace treatment, patients with longer-term pain are not. In these patients, the stress fracture will have a low chance of healing, even after several months in a brace.
Over the course of treatment, your child's doctor will take periodic X-rays to determine whether the vertebra is changing position.
Surgical Treatment
Surgery may be recommended for spondylolisthesis patients who have:
Severe or high-grade slippage
Slippage that is progressively worsening
Back pain that has not improved after a period of nonsurgical treatment
Spinal fusion between the fifth lumbar vertebra and the sacrum is the surgical procedure most often used to treat patients with spondylolisthesis.
The goals of spinal fusion are to:
Prevent further progression of the slip
Stabilize the spine
Alleviate significant back pain
Surgical Procedure
Spinal fusion is essentially a welding process. The basic idea is to fuse together the affected vertebrae so that they heal into a single, solid bone. Fusion eliminates motion between the damaged vertebrae and takes away some spinal flexibility. The theory is that if the painful spine segment does not move, it should not hurt.
During the procedure, the doctor will first realign the vertebrae in the lumbar spine. Small pieces of bone called bone graft are then placed into the spaces between the vertebrae to be fused. Over time, the bones grow together similar to how a broken bone heals.
Prior to placing the bone graft, your doctor may use metal screws and rods to further stabilize the spine and improve the chances of successful fusion.
In some cases, patients with high-grade slippage will also have compression of the spinal nerve roots. If this is the case, your doctor may perform a procedure to open up the spinal canal and relieve pressure on the nerves before performing the spinal fusion.
https://orthoinfo.aaos.org/en/diseases--conditions/spondylolysis-and-spondylolisthesis/
His sister is a doctor.
His family owns nursing homes.
I'm sure health insurance was not an issue.
Chronic pain. I bet he never sought counseling for his pain. Unfortunately men rarely do.
MadameButterfly
(1,854 posts)Medical treatment for back pain has a bad record. I've been through it all and seen people who came out of it less lucky than me.
LeftInTX
(30,314 posts)His insurance carrier was Blue Cross Blue Shield, not UHC. He did not have problems with his insurance.
I just found this out tonight. Someone screenshot his reddit posts which were removed. However, how one feels a month or so after surgery, may not be how they feel 6 months. Mainly because they're on self imposed rest for a significant time.
Sarno's books won't do much good for spondylolisthesis.
dawg
(10,769 posts)In my work, I encounter lots of people who think they are rich but are actually just a misfortune or two away from poverty.
lostnfound
(16,688 posts)No man is an island, unless he works hard to harden his heart.
TheProle
(3,081 posts)to pretend there is nothing between "sitting there passively" and extrajudicial execution...
Maru Kitteh
(29,192 posts)the writer was speaking not of the very common act of gun violence itiself, but the moral finger-wagging directed at those not sufficiently mournful when a deadly parasite is shed.
TheProle
(3,081 posts)your generous spin (and rude tone) on it notwithstanding.
Bobstandard
(1,688 posts)Generosity or simply a different point being made? The latter I think. And well said.
Bonx
(2,213 posts)Keepthesoulalive
(723 posts)Legal and?
angrychair
(9,811 posts)Not advocating violence of any kind but I can absolutely sympathize with the mindset.
Everyone has a breaking point. Even societies.
Cirsium
(1,021 posts)Quite to the contrary, the OP suggests a wide rage of possible responses between those two extremes.
Skittles
(159,940 posts)JFC!!!!
brush
(57,939 posts)Maru Kitteh
(29,192 posts)that new feature of DU.
Celerity
(46,541 posts)This:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219807158
And add some text to your Bluesky post as to what it is about.
Maru Kitteh
(29,192 posts)Linda ladeewolf
(455 posts)Note on ramen noodles. To make them more healthy for consumption, use only a tiny portion of the flavor packet. Its the huge amount of sodium in it that makes it so bad. Add fresh veggies or frozen to it with some good meat and it is not bad. I learned that years ago. Also keep some sauces handy. Soy, teriyaki, sweet n sour, all make it better. Low sodium bullion helps too.
KPN
(16,151 posts)Aside from your attention being captured by the ramen -- pragmatism! Gotta love it.
Linda ladeewolf
(455 posts)Want to know what I think about what is going on. The anger in me reaches violent levels. I could do a lot of things if I allowed myself to. So I remain pragmatic in an effort to not do those things which I feel may become necessary in the very near future. If it becomes necessary, I will do what is called for.
niyad
(120,398 posts)said. I have a great many sauces, flavourings, spices, etc, and do it many different ways, including poaching eggs in as it cooks, or scrambling them in. The fact that one can microwave them quickly is great when one wants something quick and hot is also a plus.
I rinse the noodles after boiling. A lot of brands deep fry the noodles.
canuckledragger
(1,973 posts)And use raman noodles as the pasta, on account of how quick they are to cook.
Not much nutrition or anything at all to the noodles... that's what the stew and sauce is for
exoskeleton
(54 posts)But it should not be taken off of the table.
My Father always told me "S**t in your bed and you lay in it." Meaning take responsibility for your actions. The shooter and the victim both s**t in their beds.
Sorry, I'm not a wordsmith and I'm not subtle but I am responsible.
Bonx
(2,213 posts)Not approval but understanding. As a person that has spent most of their life desperately poor and at one point homeless and eating from a dumpster and as someone that had a very sick child have the insurance claim for the only care plan that had a chance of helping them denied, I have experienced that sense of hopelessness and helplessness, so I understand it. I've been pushed pretty far but never far enough but as I said, everyone has that of "point of no return" line and it's different for everyone.
So no "tacit approval". Just empathy and a unique understanding that only comes from walking a mile in the shoes of a desperate and frustrated and angry and sad person that feels like they've run out of fucks to give.
SunImp
(2,359 posts)Some self righteous people in this thread don't
eppur_se_muova
(37,565 posts)JFK -- hardly a bloodthirsty warmonger, or fan of violence otherwise -- uttered those words at a time when smaller countries around the world were falling to Communist insurrections, or in danger of doing so. I'm sure he didn't mean it as a threat, but a warning -- advice which was sincerely intended to be heeded. Those in power must meet the demands of their people, or their people will depose them; the more violently they try to hold on to power, the more violence will be brought against them. That doesn't guarantee by any means that their successors will be white knights or angels of mercy, only that they will get their chance to hold the levers of power. If they fall back on the methods of the departed oppressor, they, the new oppressors, are likely to meet the same fate.
Currently, we're not talking about just countries and popular revolutions -- but those who benefit/profit from the current system, directly or indirectly, without ever having been elected, must be able to examine the consequences of their actions for the public and consider what resentments they may have engendered in the process of pursuing their personal rise to the top, or their corporation's business model to which they attribute their success. The recent killing of a greedy CEO whose business model was to deny (often life-saving) medical care to millions -- a perversion of traditional models where profits depend on providing something of value, not denying it -- should lead to some genuine soul-searching on the part of business "leaders" and organizations to whatever extent they are capable of it. Unfortunately, for many that may be no great extent at all, or even zero. Corporations, of course, despite putative claims that they "are people too", lack souls utterly. Morally, they are much less than the sum of their parts. So I wouldn't expect much change there, even if there are more examples of such killings, which will only confirm their ultimate futility (at least in a practical sense).
Only regulation can force proper behavior on corps whose self-declared sole purpose is profit at anyone else's cost. And until we can find politicians who won't sell out for a cut of those profits, we won't see change.
Health insurance, of course, is a uniquely dreadful example, because it differs from other forms of insurance in that it does not insure concrete, replaceable objects for the cost of replacement, but claims to insure an intangible, almost indefinable abstract condition of "good health", whose meaning is time- and context-dependent, and for which there is no off-the-shelf plug-in replacement. Such ambiguity allows those drawing up the contracts to determine whether they have or have not delivered what customers paid for -- an inherently bad design in very principle, which no amount of patching will ever render fully functional.
FirstLight
(14,270 posts)nt
OldBaldy1701E
(6,477 posts)Yeah, we have some serious deprogramming to do before we can hope to find more than one or two non greed-driven American. I am not saying that there are none. I am saying that those folks would never get the chance to be in a position like that because Big Business would never allow them to hold the position of Dog Catcher, much less get into a position where they would oppose those same greedy animals. And, we are a defacto oligarchy, so Big Business always gets their way in the end.
If you want to change the world, you have to change the people on it first. We did not get to where we are socially and politically because of greedy and soulless trees. No evil deity suddenly appeared and made us evil like him. We did this to ourselves. And, because it has not changed yet, we can see that there is a massive amount of deprogramming to do.
Either that, or we like things like they are. Which tells me more about us as a nation than any propaganda could hope to obfuscate.
live love laugh
(14,495 posts)Blue Full Moon
(1,259 posts)I do think that letting these companies kill people and destroying lives is definitely a mental illness. All they get is a little fine or in the case of insurance companies a huge profit. By the way CEOs profile as serial killers.
intheflow
(28,998 posts)Dude was a businessman, and his biz is legal. However, legal isnt a synonym of innocent, it just means we as a society have decided immoral acts are good as long as theyre done by corporations.
Linda ladeewolf
(455 posts)But it shouldnt be. Laws are made to protect the mass criminals i.e. corporations. They steal millions in wages, time and get away with it. A man robbing a bank for $10,000 will wind up in prison for years. Or someone steals a cd player and spends years in prison or jail. The justice system is skewed in favor of the wealthy, he who has money is not guilty by virtue of all that money. The poor are guilty because of poverty. It needs to change.
Autumn
(46,508 posts)had asked the Securities and Exchange Commission to investigate UnitedHealth for the CEO's stock sales
malaise
(278,461 posts)Rec
Hellbound Hellhound
(229 posts)LeftInTX
(30,314 posts)Hellbound Hellhound
(229 posts)The kind of people who would blame a rape victim for "Deserving it", if it meant a few dollars in their pathetic pockets.
Fak 'em. Let them reap what they sow.
Response to angrychair (Original post)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Initech
(102,261 posts)And guess what? It's not the government. It's the billionaire criminal class. It's the shareholder and executive class. They are not our friends. They continue to screw us over in the name of profit and greed. This shit hasn't worked for 50 years. It's time to change course on that despite that Fuckface is going to be president in January.
Autumn
(46,508 posts)talking about cutting SS, cutting back on healthcare. Doing away with disability for adults and programs for children who need safety nets for neurological or heath issues People who have been selected to be in charge are talking about making cutbacks on everything. We are told that the cuts they want are going to cause us pain but it will be better in the long run. For who? Women are facing threats daily, women are dying because they can't get life saving healthcare and the list goes on and on and the fucking threats from these fucking smug ass billionaires just fucking go on and on. Revenge, retribution. Fuck
I don't need these fucking politicians telling me that some poor rat fucking CEO rates more concern and sympathy than the people who have voted for them do and we should STFU and be nice.
I'm past that bullshit. Maybe they ought to pay attention to what we are fucking going through before they decide to take us to task.
I don't have one fuck to give because some asshole got killed. Fuck him.