Non violent protest is the only answer

[senseandsensibility]

I have new appreciation for the movements led by Ghandi and MLK as I compare them to violent loners such as Luigi Mangione. Their efforts required extreme personal sacrifice and suffering and took decades, but you know what? They achieved many of their goals.

People like Mangione do not have the patience or the self-sacrificing nature to really affect change in the way they profess to want. That tells me that it is really about themselves or their distorted perceptions of reality.

Killing people will not bring others to your side or force change. It will turn others against you and distract from the issue at hand. And yes, it is morally wrong.

[FSogol]

1. K & R n/t

[Bluethroughu]

2. January 20th, let the General Strike begin.

Go nowhere, buy nothing, share with friends and family.

Nothing, no work, no nothing.

[tritsofme]

6. Quite an incredible privilege to be able to pull off not working over four years!

I would share with any family and friends to definitely not do that, unless of course they are ready to retire.

[Bluethroughu]

23. They are going to take everything anyway, so give them

None of our productivity. Nothing.

[tritsofme]

29. They can try to take, but I'm not giving anything away.

[berksdem]

7. I get the sentiment

but I think most folks will need to continue to work.

[Bluethroughu]

24. They are going to take everything not nailed down.

We will have nothing. Taking Social Security away from people, that paid into it is ridiculous. Medicare and medicaid from the sick will kill them!

Stealing people's property after they are deported, is THEFT.

This administration is hellbent on killing, pillaging, and stealing everything we have.

We can not fight our military, but we can all stay home. Let industry fail first or industry will wake up and push this incoming administration out. Get out! They can go live in Russia with the other dictators.

[berksdem]

47. okay then

[IzzaNuDay]

12. I'm going to burn a Trump flag instead!

it’s all ready for a nice warm fire

[uponit7771]

13. Yep, my protest is less spending during MAGA reign if you can afford it... you'll need the money

[PedroXimenez]

3. i'm more open to the pragmatic argument than the moral argument

I see these fools on TV moralizing, i want to scream f-you. Chris Cuomo comes to mind as a specific example.

[bucolic_frolic]

4. That's ridiculous.

Killing is a sign of dominance and mental acuity that has won many a day. It proves to be no less durable than victories won by peaceful and moral means, and it captures the spoils and renders the weak powerless - in the short run, when it counts to the dominants. That's why war and violence are so recurrent. I'm not advocating for war or violence here. Quite the contrary. I just want to point out the opposing view from the vantage point of the dominant, the abusive, the cruel, the malevolent and malicious. That is what we're up against.

[Jilly_in_VA]

5. What is that getting us?

Seriously. It doesn't even get noticed. I don't know what the answer is, but buying nothing and going nowhere ain't it.

[bluestarone]

8. Be ready for your non violent protest to be answered by

Violent crack down! ( i really believe this) Edit to add that i'm not against this, but be prepared for it> I'm with you.

[rampartd]

22. we learned at occupy that agents provocateur are a specialty

and in summer 2020 that boogaloo boys do not have to be on a government payroll.

i am all for peaceful protest, but troublemakers need to be identified and isolated early in the game

[TommyT139]

31. Even without "troublemakers"

Peaceful protests have been criminalized in red states during the years since the first Trump administration. Sometimes the charges are around blocking public roads; other times they seem to hinge on "marching" without permits, etc. aAd as shown by the fascist tactics in Georgia attacking peaceful protesters against Cop City, even people not present, but who simply contributed to bail funds, are being categorized as financial supporters of domestic terrorism. That was before the federal legislation (headed to the Senate?) allowing any nonprofit to be re-classed as a terrorist organization. Any nonprofit.

For a scary use-case example, this link was posted on DU yesterday. It's Heritage Fdn materials specific to fighting what they think of as anti-semitism. In the first slide set on that page, note that peaceful matches are right there with violence, vandalism, and rioting.
https://forward.com/news/680626/project-esther-heritage-jewish-conspiracy-antisemitism/
There are the same folks who gave us Project 2025, many of whom are already on the next Trump team.

If you are planning on traditional peaceful be ready to lose everything.

[rampartd]

33. thanks for that link

there are, of course hamas supporters, but most of the "pro palastinian" people that i have talked to are more concerned with humane treatment of non combatants or the extension of settlements into the west bank. not support for iran or terrorists.

i think of heritage as koch funded evangelicals obsessed with their end times delusions of moving all jews to israel where jesus can come down on a cloud and convert them to the prosperity gospel.. that does not make them less dangerous,

their cultish support for antichrist 47 is a mix of faith that he can speed up the return of jesus and kompromat of the type trump has on falwell jr

the weird politics of some of america's muslims reminds me of an astroturf group from my youth. "gays for mcgovern" were disruptors formed by roger stone to torpedo our candidate in 1972.

[ColinC]

9. I mean. Its not the only answer unfortunately.

But besides voting and running for office, it remains one of the only courses of action for change ans preserving a civil society. Unfortunately the rules are bent heavily against citizens in that regard: The disturbing fact that a regime can kill its citizens as much as they want, but the citizens must always turn the other cheek and hope the message is eventually received, heard and implemented while they increasingly risk their lives to peacefully send that message.

[Prairie Gates]

10. Half the people even on DU think that simply occupying a space is "violent"

and "endangers" constituencies with which you disagree who are, therefore, "unsafe."

So, you know, good luck with that.

[Scrivener7]

20. Wtf does that mean?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

21. I mean...

[Ocelot II]

11. Mangione is just another iteration of the Unabomber.

If you approve of what he did you must have approved of what Ted Kaczinski did (and Mangione was apparently a fan of his). Both had objections to the practices of corporate America, so they took out their anger by injuring and murdering individuals, having arrogantly assumed that their anger justified their actions and appointing themselves judge, jury and executioner. The Unabomber didn't change society and neither will Mangione. Corporations in general and health insurers in particular will continue to be soulless and predatory because their only legal obligation is to their shareholders. Unless our laws regulating these corporations change, they will continue to be parasites. And those laws will not change unless citizens vote out the legislators who gorge themselves at the lobbyists' troughs. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening any time soon.

[TommyT139]

32. "Parasites"

"Unless our laws regulating these corporations change, they will continue to be parasites."

If I recall correctly, that's the exact language used by Mangione. (It's been awhile since I read parts of Ted K's work.)
Was that intentional on your part, or are you more in agreement with them than you realize?

[Ocelot II]

35. I agree that some corporations are parasites. I don't agree with murdering their CEOs.

[Dem4life1234]

14. Hit them in their pockets

During the civil rights movement, black people refused to ride buses and the bus industry lost lots of $$$. Eventually black people were allowed to sit anywhere on the bus.

Hitting them in their wallets is where it counts.

And I don't think people should be admonished just because they don't give a damn about that CEO, people are sick of tired of folks dying because they are denied services. Where are the DU threads on that? Instead I see some threads slapping our hands because we won't shed a tear for the CEO. People go dying every single damn day, and their murderers are never caught.

[maxsolomon]

15. Hit who in their pockets?

UHC? Most of us get our Health Insurance paid for by our employers. Mine doesn't use UHC.

[Conjuay]

46. To me, that seems senseless

You're going to punish people with millions and nowadays billions of dollars by not buying their products?
These people will not ever miss the money they might lose do to a boycott, perhaps in a thousand years they might feel some inconvenience.

[atreides1]

16. I disagree.

Nonviolent protests only work if your opponents have a conscious.

Ghandi and MLK lived in a time when their opponents were forced to have a conscious...we no longer live in those times.

Remember, Trump wanted to use the military against American citizens...and given the chance he will do it!!!

[LeftInTX]

25. The Russian Revolution worked for 70 years. Now they got Putin.

[GenThePerservering]

17. Hand me some rocks

and I'll throw them, because all else is failing.

[Ping Tung]

18. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi

[Blue_Roses]

19. Well said!

[crud]

26. It has to be on a massive scale

Shutting down whole cities, Washington DC, etc. And it has to be sustained. Probably means violent crackdowns by authorities too. I don't see any of that happening, but who knows.

[BannonsLiver]

27. Tell that to the French.

[sarisataka]

37. Should we imitate the Reign of Terror

the committee {Committee of Public Safety} obtained the Law of 22 Prairial, year II (June 10, 1794), which suspended a suspect’s right to public trial and to legal assistance and left the jury a choice only of acquittal or death.

During the Reign of Terror, at least 300,000 suspects were arrested; 17,000 were officially executed, and perhaps 10,000 died in prison or without trial.

We have over ten times the population of France during the Revolution, so could add a zero to those numbers.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

38. Yes. n/t

[sarisataka]

39. Well that's definite

If nothing else I salute your bravery to be honest...

[Hellbound Hellhound]

40. I don't expect you to agree, but you asked.

And I'm certainly not the only one who would respond thusly.

My mark is clear. I don't support companies murdering hundreds of thousands, if not millions, for the sake of making profit.

Others may disagree. I respect it. Don't like it, but respect it.

[sarisataka]

41. "I'm certainly not the only one who would respond thusly."

My compliment is genuine. I disagree but respect the straightforward statement over wishy-washy "I don't..., but-"

[Hellbound Hellhound]

42. As I do your opposition. It's a part of what makes America great.

Thank you for the dialogue. We can disagree, but if we met each other face to face I'd fight to the death to honor your right to disagree with me.

See you on the other side.

[sarisataka]

43. .

[BannonsLiver]

48. You're the only one that has brought up imitation.

My point was that In the OP it was stated violence never solves anything. That’s manifestly untrue.

[DBoon]

28. We win by organizing large numbers of people

and thereby creating political power and cultural consensus about our goals. Our goals are a democratic society where people respect each other and work to improve life.

Individual acts of violence are inherently reactionary - the glamorize a "heroic" individual abandoning the constraints of morality by committing an act of violence.

[nocoincidences]

30. Non-violent protest takes more time than we have.

Four years of Trump will destroy American democracy, freedoms, especially of women, and reveal to those who haven't experienced the consequences of trying to be passive and non-violent what it feels like to have your head cracked open by a police baton.

The world will be burning up in the meantime, and the unregulated pollution will kill off half the species on earth, including the people who are poor and can't defend themselves from starvation. They will non-violently die.

I survived the Sixties, and it doesn't take a weather man to tell which way the wind blows.

You know what I mean, Boomers?

[jalan48]

34. That's not how the United States came about.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

36. Agreed. America is here because violence was necessary.

Naked violence has accomplished more than Diplomacy by orders of magnitude.

[JCMach1]

44. Won't be a popular answer here, but not always

...

Sometimes you also need to listen to Malcolm X and Thomas Paine.

[H2O Man]

45. Gandhi.