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TheProle

(3,081 posts)
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 06:37 PM Tuesday

Shapiro: "Hear me on this: he is no hero."

"In America, we do not kill people in cold blood to resolve policy differences or express a viewpoint. I understand people have real frustration with our healthcare system, and I have worked to address that throughout my career.

"But I have no tolerance, nor should anyone, for one man using an illegal ghost gun to murder someone because he thinks his opinion matters most. In a civil society, we are all less safe when ideologues engage in vigilante justice.

“In some dark corners, this killer is being hailed as a hero. Hear me on this: he is no hero.”

Answering follow-up questions from reporters, Shapiro added: “Violence can never be used to address political differences, or to address a substantive difference, or to try and prove some ideological point. That is not what we do in a civilized society.

“That was true in Butler, it was true in new york city, and it’s true anywhere. that is not how you make progress in this country.”


https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/luigi-mangione-arrest-pennsylvania-reaction-health-insuranc-b2661599.html
98 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Shapiro: "Hear me on this: he is no hero." (Original Post) TheProle Tuesday OP
Oh please DO scold the people who are expressing rage LearnedHand Tuesday #1
Yeah, Maybe More Productive RobinA 15 hrs ago #69
The amount of violence that health-insurance policies wreak on people's bodies is immense. WhiskeyGrinder Tuesday #2
100+ InAbLuEsTaTe Tuesday #26
"Violence can never be used to address political differences, or to address a substantive difference" Hellbound Hellhound Tuesday #3
Post removed Post removed Tuesday #8
The outpouring of anger definitely had a "French Revolution" feel to it LearnedHand Tuesday #21
Revolutions are fought by those whose bones are easily counted. BattleRow Tuesday #40
Great post. Celerity 19 hrs ago #66
Just wait for the Dead Pool list on those who pull Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid. TheBlackAdder Tuesday #4
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Tuesday #25
It appears our society is no longer civil MagickMuffin Tuesday #5
Totally wrong framing delisen Tuesday #6
Progress in this country? Baitball Blogger Tuesday #7
We deny their cancer treatment and their abortion. We deny their diabetes and heart meds. onecaliberal Tuesday #9
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Tuesday #27
Is this why they want to abolish Dept of Education? BattleRow Tuesday #41
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Tuesday #43
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Tuesday #10
This is where we learn which side people are really on. nt TBF Tuesday #11
Exactly BeerBarrelPolka Tuesday #12
Violence cannot be used to solve political differences Trenzalore Tuesday #13
There is a big difference between celibrating an act of violent vigilantism... nycbos Tuesday #14
But there are people celebrating and condoning this. LeftInTX Tuesday #38
Yes they are, or at the minimizing i JohnSJ Tuesday #46
And Yet Baron2024 Tuesday #15
Bullshit. You are justifying violence. JohnSJ Tuesday #44
Violence And Force Baron2024 Tuesday #57
There is something really twisted about your thinking. You are calling for violence period, and trying to justify it JohnSJ 23 hrs ago #63
It Is Fine Baron2024 22 hrs ago #65
Then I guess with your warped, burn it all down logic, you had no problem with the targeting killing of Dr. Tiller. JohnSJ 12 hrs ago #74
Burning It Down Baron2024 5 hrs ago #87
Twisted Thinking Baron2024 4 hrs ago #93
Fighting The Nazis Baron2024 4 hrs ago #94
I am not going to engage with you anymore on this. Have a nice day. JohnSJ 3 hrs ago #95
Good Luck Baron2024 3 hrs ago #96
The taking of a life by a private vigilante is not justified in this case LetMyPeopleVote 13 hrs ago #71
I Agree Baron2024 5 hrs ago #90
Shooting someone in the back is self defense? LOL beaglelover 9 hrs ago #82
Not in this case BeerBarrelPolka 9 hrs ago #83
Profiting Off Of Death Baron2024 5 hrs ago #88
How is shooting a guy in the back self defense? N/T lapucelle 5 hrs ago #91
It Isn't Baron2024 4 hrs ago #92
Good Article Baron2024 3 hrs ago #97
Another Brief Article Baron2024 2 hrs ago #98
He should speak to our local jihad cowboys who are arming Ford_Prefect Tuesday #16
All this motherhood about the rule of law. Klarkashton Tuesday #17
My guess is he has kairos12 Tuesday #18
Ben Shapiro is Buzz cook Tuesday #19
The story is about Gov Shapiro of Pennsylvania. TheProle Tuesday #24
I heard Ben say the same thing Buzz cook Tuesday #37
ROFL Prairie Gates 9 hrs ago #86
This message was self-deleted by its author JohnSJ Tuesday #45
Who? jimfields33 Tuesday #42
"That is not what we do in a civilized society." OldBaldy1701E Tuesday #20
Weird how he didn't mention January 6 av8rdave Tuesday #22
Why is that weird?? AkFemDem 11 hrs ago #77
K&R UTUSN Tuesday #23
K&R MustLoveBeagles Tuesday #28
For those that have seen my OP from Today angrychair Tuesday #29
So is Shapiro for single-payer healthcare, Emile Tuesday #30
Sounds like he's on the side of not shooting people in the street Mountainguy Yesterday #61
Many Americans supported bank robbers during the Great Depression, Emile 17 hrs ago #68
Violence is ok Mountainguy 11 hrs ago #79
You got nothing. Emile 10 hrs ago #81
Dark Corner Underground?? hehehehe... WarGamer Tuesday #31
What's the over/under on the time Garland appoints 3825-87867 Tuesday #32
March 2025. Autumn Tuesday #35
If you get worked up enough and long enough about a big problem Aussie105 Tuesday #33
In a civilized society we would have National healthcare, but we don't. So... Autumn Tuesday #34
Oh fuck it. I can see this is a BASH Gov Shapiro thread Cha Tuesday #36
Nor do I Lulu KC Tuesday #48
Yeah... I was thinking about that.. Gov Shapiro Cha Tuesday #49
I'm at a loss where the Gov Shapiro bashing is Ilikepurple Tuesday #50
If you didn't see any bashing then you did miss it. Cha Tuesday #52
I'm quite happy to bash anyone who doesn't preface a lecture with: Aussie105 Tuesday #53
100%. Lately bashing democrats is okay here AkFemDem 11 hrs ago #78
Post removed Post removed Tuesday #39
regarding the dark corners he refers to orleans Tuesday #47
Gov. Shapiro is correct. Nt mcar Tuesday #51
You forgot to say the important part: Aussie105 Tuesday #54
I stand by what I wrote mcar 11 hrs ago #80
Mahalo, mcar... Cha Tuesday #55
I agree in principal but man he sure DID have it coming! flying_wahini Tuesday #56
Richie Rich Historic NY Tuesday #58
I'm not sanctioning murder, particularly in cold blood...but however... Xolodno Tuesday #59
THANK YOU Skittles Yesterday #60
"Dark corners?" Really? Give me a break. Karasu Yesterday #62
Shapiro is right, and thiose trying to rationalize or justify the murder of a CEO are just as twisted as the MAGAs, JohnSJ 23 hrs ago #64
Maybe Try To Understand RobinA 12 hrs ago #72
It is no different than the zealots who justified the killing of Dr. Tiller. Same bullshit JohnSJ 12 hrs ago #73
It's cute that Shapiro thinks we still live in a "civil society" maxrandb 17 hrs ago #67
He does know that we did fight an entire war about this, right? Initech 13 hrs ago #70
Who listens to BS? ThePartyThatListens 12 hrs ago #75
Who reads OPs? TheProle 12 hrs ago #76
He's no hero and should be prosecuted fully. Elessar Zappa 9 hrs ago #84
Not to justify cold blooded murder, but seems to me B.See 9 hrs ago #85
When I saw, "Hear me", I couldn't resist Just_Vote_Dem 5 hrs ago #89

LearnedHand

(4,208 posts)
1. Oh please DO scold the people who are expressing rage
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 06:41 PM
Tuesday

Most people are NOT celebrating his death, so don't paint your entire audience with that brush. Way to miss the point completely.

RobinA

(10,175 posts)
69. Yeah, Maybe More Productive
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 08:58 AM
15 hrs ago

would be to deal with why SO MANY people aren't too broken up with this killing. Most people know walking up to someone and shooting them out of the blue is generally unacceptable and downright wrong, but..... and the "but" needs to be paid attention to.

WhiskeyGrinder

(24,018 posts)
2. The amount of violence that health-insurance policies wreak on people's bodies is immense.
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 06:41 PM
Tuesday

Decrying violence now seems a little late, to me.

3. "Violence can never be used to address political differences, or to address a substantive difference"
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 06:44 PM
Tuesday

I'm sorry, did homeboy ever read a book in his fucking life? Look at fucking slavery. Violence. Death. Bloodshed. The Civil Fucking War.

The ONLY reason we're not still using African Americans as outright slaves is because of violence.

The pandering to the billionaires is out of control.

Response to Hellbound Hellhound (Reply #3)

LearnedHand

(4,208 posts)
21. The outpouring of anger definitely had a "French Revolution" feel to it
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 07:58 PM
Tuesday

I'm guessing many of us in this country, repressed for decades by greedy corporations, billionaires, and politicians, are near a breaking point. Maybe the recent vote reflects the same thing, regardless of how asinine it seemed.

TheBlackAdder

(28,968 posts)
4. Just wait for the Dead Pool list on those who pull Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid.
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 06:48 PM
Tuesday

You'll have a lot of seniors and disabled and ill with the little they have stripped away from them and nothing else to live for, except revenge.

Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #4)

MagickMuffin

(17,171 posts)
5. It appears our society is no longer civil
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 06:52 PM
Tuesday


And it hasn’t been for a very long time. Newt Gringrich and Ronald Reagan started this demonization of Americans, mostly aimed against the left. In fact they are still doing this.

Perhaps Mr. Shapiro should reflect on Jan 6, 2021. I didn’t witness much civility there.



Nope no longer civilized.


delisen

(6,542 posts)
6. Totally wrong framing
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 06:55 PM
Tuesday

We are talking about who gets to live and who dies and who profits from the withholding of healthcare.

Too many well cared for politicians are living in a bubble.

onecaliberal

(36,203 posts)
9. We deny their cancer treatment and their abortion. We deny their diabetes and heart meds.
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 07:24 PM
Tuesday

Then they die. That’s what we do in a civil society.
The tone deafness… my fucking god.

Response to onecaliberal (Reply #9)

Response to BattleRow (Reply #41)

Response to TheProle (Original post)

nycbos

(6,381 posts)
14. There is a big difference between celibrating an act of violent vigilantism...
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 07:38 PM
Tuesday

... which I do not in any way condone, and not mourning the death of somebody who made his fortune, ensuring sick people denied medical care.

LeftInTX

(30,308 posts)
38. But there are people celebrating and condoning this.
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 09:35 PM
Tuesday

Since I don't know either Mangione or the UHC CEO, I don't have a connection to either. I really can't mourn the dead guy and the shooter doesn't seem to have a whole lot of redeeming qualities.

Baron2024

(242 posts)
15. And Yet
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 07:40 PM
Tuesday

And yet the Death Penalty is still legal in Pennsylvania. So it is OK in principle for the State to kill someone but not OK for a private citizen to kill someone in what may be arguably a form of self defense. I believe in peaceful politics but at a certain point the violence inherent in the system provokes some to act out in what might be considered a form of self defense.

Baron2024

(242 posts)
57. Violence And Force
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 11:34 PM
Tuesday

The Continental Army used force and violence to overthrow the tyranny of the British. The Union Army used force to defeat the Confederates. The Allies used force to defeat the Nazis. I would prefer peace but in some cases oppression is so heavy it motivates people to act out when they have no other recourse. For-Profit Health Insurance is a racket and in some cases causes injury or death in the name of profits. Health care is a right, not a commercial product. When people are deprived of their rights in a way that threatens their life and health or the life and the health of their loved ones, there may be an argument for self defense. It may be no sin to use force against tyrants that threaten our rights to health and well being and the rights of our loved ones.

JohnSJ

(96,757 posts)
63. There is something really twisted about your thinking. You are calling for violence period, and trying to justify it
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 01:00 AM
23 hrs ago

as fighting it as comparable to "fighting the nazis"

If this is what DU has become, than we are no better than the MAGAs, if the consensus in this place is for advocating violence , I for one will not be part of that bullshit.

Baron2024

(242 posts)
65. It Is Fine
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 02:34 AM
22 hrs ago

It is fine if you don't want to take part in it, but this country is being taken over corporate criminals who kill people by denying them their Healthcare, which is a human right. These Corporatists are allied with MAGA Fascists and Far Right Christian Nationalists. These people are not playing softball and I do not think that principled pacifism is going to stop them. These people have already stated that they intend to mobilize the military to round up millions of people and put them in camps. Once that fascist project is rolling, do not expect them to stop. Trump and his MAGA Fascists have already hinted that they will arrest and try their political enemies, including members of the media and regular citizens. If anyone resists they can expect the police and the military to be mobilized to suppress them. Passive denial of these possibilities will not be any sort of defense. We are different from MAGA in that they are the ones instigating a fascist regime. We did not start this. We have a right to self defense. Violence is the illegal or unjustified use of force. Sometimes the use of force is justified. The use of force to defend against the implementation of a Fascist takeover may well be justified. The justified use of force in self defense against a violent fascist regime.

JohnSJ

(96,757 posts)
74. Then I guess with your warped, burn it all down logic, you had no problem with the targeting killing of Dr. Tiller.
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 12:41 PM
12 hrs ago

Which also begs the question, who did you vote for?

Because enough people refused to Harris, even though the choice has never been clearer.

Your rhetoric sure sounds like antifa. I wonder how many you will con.


Baron2024

(242 posts)
87. Burning It Down
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 06:50 PM
5 hrs ago

Last edited Wed Dec 11, 2024, 09:00 PM - Edit history (1)

I am not interested in burning anything down. I would love to see a peaceful solution to these problems. Part of the problem is we have an incoming Federal Administration that is fascistic. They are the ones threatening to burn everything down. I am proposing self defense as a last resort. Hopefully there will be peaceful political solutions to these conflicts and problems. I am skeptical though.

I am not interested in "conning" anyone. I am just speaking the truth as I know it. Your views may differ. People can read my posts and judge for themselves. I am not antifa but I am anti-fascist. They are not necessarily the same thing. I believe in a mixed economy with both a healthy private sector and a strong safety net and a good public sector. Most antifa are strictly anti-capitalist. I am not. I am against corporate corruption though, and there is a lot of it. Part of the solution is good government that checks corporate power. With this incoming administration, the corporate fat cats and billionaires are now explicitly running the show. So we are going to be at the mercy of these MAGA Fascists and the corrupt Corporatists for at least a while. I am proposing self defense and political resistance.

In regards to the original issue- Health Insurance should not be a private business. Health care is a right, not a privilege or a commodity to be used as a profit center. We need Medicare for All. Tens of thousands of people die every year explicitly because they have no health insurance. These are real human beings suffering and dying because our politicians oppose basic Health Care and propose profiteering off of people's suffering. These deaths are criminal. People die and their families suffer.

God knows how many die every year because their Private Health Insurance will not cover necessary and life saving treatments. The people who run these operations are white collar criminals. People are literally dying for lack of health care in this country. Why are these criminals allowed to get away with killing people? Because too many people in this country worship the dollar and do not care about their fellow human beings.

If there were a political solution like Medicare for All there would be less incentives for extremists like Mangione to take the matter in their own hands. White collar criminals are literally getting away with murder and profiting off of the killings. Why are they permitted to kill innocent people? What should be done about it?

As far as the Tiller case goes- I would appreciate it if you did not put words in my mouth. That is a Straw Man Argument, a basic failure of logic- misrepresent your opponent's position and then refute the misrepresentation.

Also, I voted for Kamala Harris. Who would you expect me to vote for? This site is strictly for Democrats, Liberals, and the people that support them. I consider myself a Progressive. I find your response to me to be rather disingenuous.

Baron2024

(242 posts)
93. Twisted Thinking
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 08:42 PM
4 hrs ago

I think a better example of twisted thinking is a corporate millionaire making money off of people's health insurance premiums and then denying them the coverage that they have paid for. People are dying in this system and other people are profiting off of their deaths. That is some real twisted thinking.

Baron2024

(242 posts)
94. Fighting The Nazis
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 08:48 PM
4 hrs ago

In case you did not notice, we are actually fighting the new Nazis. The new American term for Nazi is MAGA. MAGA Fascists are planning to round millions of people up and will put them in deportation camps. That is some Nazi and Fascist behavior. If they get away with that, they will not stop. They have already made it clear that they intend to turn the military and the police against any American citizens that disagree with them or oppose them, including media figures, politicians, and normal citizens. These MAGA People are the new American Nazis. Appeasing them will not work. We must oppose them and resist them with every tool available to us. Meek pacifism unfortunately will not work.

Baron2024

(242 posts)
96. Good Luck
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 09:10 PM
3 hrs ago

If your position is too weak and you have to retreat rather than engage in a real discussion, that is fine. I prefer vigorous and healthy discussion. If you are not up for it, that is on you, not me. Good luck to you in your future endeavors. I suspect that you might need it.

Baron2024

(242 posts)
90. I Agree
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 07:45 PM
5 hrs ago

My point is that people are being driven to extreme behaviors because they are made desperate by a system which profits off of their suffering and death. Maybe if we had Medicare for All there would be less incentive for extreme behaviors like Mangione's. People's health and lives are being threatened by a corrupt system. When people's lives are threatened, they may act out in some way as a form of self defense. When I say self defense, I mean self defense against a system that is criminal and corrupt. I am not endorsing Mangione's behavior. I am trying to explain it. When a person's life and health are threatened by a corrupt system, we should not be surprised when such a person lashes out rather than suffering in silence.

Baron2024

(242 posts)
88. Profiting Off Of Death
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 07:38 PM
5 hrs ago

Profiting off of the deaths of innocent people is criminal. Admittedly Mangione's act was extreme, but people are dying from the lack of health care in this country. You have people like this CEO that are making obscene multi-million dollar salaries off of the suffering and deaths of people. Health care should be a right, not a source of profits for corporatists. Tens of thousands of people die in this country every year due to lack of health insurance. God knows how many die because their treatment is denied by Private For-Profit Health Insurance Companies like the one in this case. This should be considered a form of white collar crime. Maybe if this sort of corporate corruption was illegal there would be less incentive for extremists like Mangione to act out and commit a crime.

Baron2024

(242 posts)
92. It Isn't
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 08:30 PM
4 hrs ago

We still don't fully know what Mangione's motive was. When I talk about self defense, I mean defense against a corrupt system that profits off of denying sick and dying people urgent medical care. The For Profit Health Insurance industry is corrupt and profits off of the suffering and death of human beings. I suspect that something like that motivated Mangione to take an extreme action. So I condemn his action, but I think that I might understand his motivation.

Health Care is a right and should not be used as a profit center for corporatists. Literally tens of thousands of people suffer and die every year due to a lack of health care coverage. The number that die due to denials by private insurers is unknown. So now we hear about this murder but why do we not hear of the tens of thousands that die every year due to a lack of coverage? This is a white washed mass murder. And it continues.

Am I sorry that the CEO was killed? Yes. But I understand that some people might be upset about the tens of thousands of people that die every year due to a lack of health insurance coverage. Why is that not in the news? Why are we not upset over all of those people dying and the suffering of their loved ones? Can you answer me that?

Baron2024

(242 posts)
98. Another Brief Article
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 09:56 PM
2 hrs ago

This is a brief and older article that shows data on the number of deaths due to a lack of health insurance. I am looking for more current data but have not turned up any of it yet with a quick search. I would imagine that the number of people dying from a lack of health insurance coverage may remain high. In this article it was tens of thousands. So a pretty large number.

https://www.citizen.org/news/nobody-should-die-because-they-cant-afford-health-care/

Ford_Prefect

(8,208 posts)
16. He should speak to our local jihad cowboys who are arming
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 07:42 PM
Tuesday

And recruiting in anticipation of the great scouring of libs, gays, and Dems, once the Mango Menace gives them the word.

Klarkashton

(2,229 posts)
17. All this motherhood about the rule of law.
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 07:47 PM
Tuesday

We live in a country where the cops have "qualified" immunity, and convicted felon president who boasted about shooting someone on 5th Ave.

As long as it's a nobody getting snuffed it's thoughts and prayers, otherwise if it's a rich guy we get these goddamn sermons.

kairos12

(13,269 posts)
18. My guess is he has
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 07:48 PM
Tuesday

Cadillac, gold plated HS.

So, Shapiro go fuck yourself dude. BTW, if you injure yourself, it’s no doubt covered.

Buzz cook

(2,597 posts)
19. Ben Shapiro is
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 07:51 PM
Tuesday

Selective in his outrage. Strangling a black person with a mental disorder good. Shooting a CEO for whatever reason bad. BLM protests bad, Jan. 6th good.

Response to TheProle (Reply #24)

OldBaldy1701E

(6,477 posts)
20. "That is not what we do in a civilized society."
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 07:51 PM
Tuesday

Nope. In a civilized society, one rigs everything so that only those who worship the powerful can survive. Not thrive, just survive. They may think they are thriving, but they have no clue just how little they are being rewarded for making a few people obscenely rich. Then, those who the establishment does not like will just wither away and die in poverty and sickness. Slowly. Painfully.

But, we don't use violence to address political differences.



Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

av8rdave

(10,614 posts)
22. Weird how he didn't mention January 6
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 08:35 PM
Tuesday

And yeah, I get it. Murder is wrong, as is vigilante justice.

OTOH, how much sleep do any of us lose when a mafia don is whacked?

Personally, none.

AkFemDem

(2,189 posts)
77. Why is that weird??
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 01:08 PM
11 hrs ago

He's addressing the issue of a murderer caught in his state that killed an insurance CEO, not Jan 6. Are you suggesting Governor Shapiro never condemned January 6th political violence?? where have you been the last 4 years?

angrychair

(9,811 posts)
29. For those that have seen my OP from Today
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 09:14 PM
Tuesday

Last edited Tue Dec 10, 2024, 09:52 PM - Edit history (1)

It was this statement from Shapiro that was my inspiration for my OP. I read these comments and I about popped with righteous fury.
The arrogance and privilege of this statement in particular:

“Violence can never be used to address political differences, or to address a substantive difference, or to try and prove some ideological point. That is not what we do in a civilized society.

I once truly believed that with all my heart. I was all in on the possibilities and hope in America. I want a world where this is true. I want it so desperately I can taste it. I dream about.

The problem with that line from Shapiro is that it completely ignores reality. History has shown us that, repeatedly, that violence has been used by a disaffected population to redress its grievances.
It's literally the core message in the Declaration of Independence. But Jefferson goes much further. He states in the Declaration that it is the duty of citizens to do this when the call is so extreme and all other avenues of reasoning it have been tried.
Jefferson and Franklin say here:
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.

To be clear I am not saying anyone should do violence against anyone. What I am saying is that a nation that values oligarchs and power more than it's people is a nation built on a foundation of matchsticks waiting for a spark.
We are desperate for the rhetorical prose of those leaders we have listened to for decades to have as much meaningful intent as it does heartfelt hope that made us believe in that better future.
Because if those words were just a walk through the garden then people will look for leaders in which their actions will follow their words. That isn't necessarily good for anyone.

Mountainguy

(1,007 posts)
61. Sounds like he's on the side of not shooting people in the street
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 12:17 AM
Yesterday

And frankly it's weird that people here are upset about it.

Emile

(30,322 posts)
68. Many Americans supported bank robbers during the Great Depression,
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 06:58 AM
17 hrs ago

viewing them as heroes who stole from the corrupt system.

I still haven't found where Shapiro stands on Single-Payer vs Healthcare for Profit.

3825-87867

(1,129 posts)
32. What's the over/under on the time Garland appoints
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 09:20 PM
Tuesday

a prosecutor, gets the trial date set quickly and Luigi goes to jail?
Before Jan 20th?
By Feb 1st?
or by Dec 2027?

Aussie105

(6,368 posts)
33. If you get worked up enough and long enough about a big problem
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 09:21 PM
Tuesday

the use of deadly violence can appear to become a viable resolution.
Smells of desperation; not seeking hero status.

But you got to hand it to people like Shapiro, this is just a spin on the 'Think of the Children' lament.
But these are not innocent children gunned down by the numbers, these are CEOs of corrupt businesses.

No, I do not condone what happened.
But I do understand it.

As always - be wary of crocodile tears and those who tell you what to think and what to feel.

Autumn

(46,508 posts)
34. In a civilized society we would have National healthcare, but we don't. So...
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 09:27 PM
Tuesday

Maybe you politicians should understand the anger Americans are feeling. We have tried voting, we have protested, we have called and written letters, we have begged and shared our healthcare nightmare stories with you. What have any of those thing done?

Cha

(305,693 posts)
49. Yeah... I was thinking about that.. Gov Shapiro
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 10:29 PM
Tuesday

is a Good guy & Gov... he doesn't deserve this.

Mahalo Lulu..

Ilikepurple

(144 posts)
50. I'm at a loss where the Gov Shapiro bashing is
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 10:42 PM
Tuesday

I may have missed a reply or two or they got taken down? Gov. Shapiro is an adult and a politician. I’m sure he can handle someone disagreeing with him. I’m not even saying he’s wrong here, but the response to the murder is phenomenon to be explained in a not so facile fashion.

Aussie105

(6,368 posts)
53. I'm quite happy to bash anyone who doesn't preface a lecture with:
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 11:07 PM
Tuesday

"In my opinion" or "You may not agree with me."

Without those conditionals, it just becomes someone telling you what to think, what to feel, and how you should react.

But if Shapiro was a good guy yesterday so you don't want him to be criticised today, feel free.

AkFemDem

(2,189 posts)
78. 100%. Lately bashing democrats is okay here
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 01:11 PM
11 hrs ago

Since the election it's been a free-fall into Democrat bashing, be it Kamala, Fetterman, Shapiro, Pelosi, the President himself.... folks here bashing democrats harder than they're criticizing republicans.

Response to TheProle (Original post)

orleans

(35,129 posts)
47. regarding the dark corners he refers to
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 10:08 PM
Tuesday

isn't that the place where the basement keyboard trumpists and steve bannon and the Q gods and the gun nuts and the vigilante freaks hang out/lurk?

Xolodno

(6,737 posts)
59. I'm not sanctioning murder, particularly in cold blood...but however...
Tue Dec 10, 2024, 11:55 PM
Tuesday

....history has shown that cold blooded murderers get released during revolts and sometimes become leaders. Sometimes its for the better, most of the time for the worst. And either way, they are considered hero's, go figure.

Both my wife and I are products of exiles and when a felon can get elected, we take notice. No empire lasts forever.

Skittles

(159,936 posts)
60. THANK YOU
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 12:10 AM
Yesterday

I never thought I'd see the day when so-called progressives were happy about GUN VIOLENCE and VIGILANTISM....do they approve of shooting abortion doctors too? WHAT THE FUCK.

JohnSJ

(96,757 posts)
64. Shapiro is right, and thiose trying to rationalize or justify the murder of a CEO are just as twisted as the MAGAs,
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 01:10 AM
23 hrs ago

As for me I will be spending less and less time here because if the consensus in this place is for advocating violence , I for one will not be part of that bullshit.

RobinA

(10,175 posts)
72. Maybe Try To Understand
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 12:10 PM
12 hrs ago

why this incident has created the response it did. Far more interesting in the long run.

maxrandb

(15,941 posts)
67. It's cute that Shapiro thinks we still live in a "civil society"
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 06:56 AM
17 hrs ago

That FUCKING lie died on January 6, 2021, and America dug that FUCKING lie up out of its grave on November 5, 2024 just to kill it again and salt the fucking ground.

Elessar Zappa

(16,037 posts)
84. He's no hero and should be prosecuted fully.
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 02:56 PM
9 hrs ago

But I won’t lose a wink of sleep that the greedy asshole is currently taking a dirt nap.

B.See

(3,750 posts)
85. Not to justify cold blooded murder, but seems to me
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 03:42 PM
9 hrs ago

there are "dark corners" aplenty in America.

Hell, in some dark corners, nearly half of the electorate turned out to empower an adjudicated rapist and convicted felon who lied to America about a deadly pandemic, incited an armed insurrection to overthrow the results of a free and fair election, and promised to be a dictator, from day ONE.

A Hitler praising 'patriot' who accused immigrants of eating the cats and the dogs, and poisoning the blood.

In some dark corners, they are planning on replacing government employees with loyalists and sycophants, militarizing the police, deploying the military against Americans, and building concentration camps.

In some dark corners they are working to trash Social security, Medicare, and yes, HEALTHCARE.

Working to undermine consumer protections, and offering billion dollar promises (correction... BRIBES) to industry and corporations to TRASH all regulations.

In some dark corners, they are covering up the increases in female deaths due to denied emergency prenatal care, planning on wiping out Medicaid,

and privatizing education, replacing public schools with schools teaching fundamental Christian based, right winged ideology, all funded at taxpayer's expense.

In some dark corners, they've sought to criminalize homelessness and have refused free lunch programs for CHILDREN.

Dark corners aplenty.

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