Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

EndlessWire

(7,270 posts)
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 08:52 PM 3 hrs ago

Clyburn is wrong.

I believe Biden should NOT pardon Trump. It sends the wrong message. While I believe that forgiveness is essential for the person doing the forgiving, I do not believe that a criminal the stature of Trump should get anything but a jail cell.

I was a person involved with national security during my Army days. I was a very small cog in the process, yet I went through all the requirements and received a Top Secret--Crypto clearance. I am beyond furious that Trump has been allowed to get away with what amounts to stealing our nation's biggest secrets, endangering an unknown amount of friendly operatives, and then lying about it to escape the consequences. Goodness knows what he was doing with the documents, but we can guess. If you or I had done that, we'd be serving twenty years this very day.

Pardoning Trump will NOT heal the nation. Speaking only for myself, I feel that I will forever be suspicious of magaty people and repubs. Pardoning tRump would only serve to make me feel that a terrible injustice has been done, and further reaffirm what I feel about two levels of justice being served up to the nation.

We are right now in the middle of a destruction of our country. It's like an aggressive cancer, and it's spreading. You can't say, "Kumbaya," forgive and forget, right when we might be truly facing Civil War 2. And, would you pardon, say, Hitler, in an attempt to heal a nation? No, you'd get rid of that person as soon as you could. I'd like to see ALL of the traitorous part of the Congress locked up. I'm not in the mood for watching that dyed blonde POS tRump walking around free, and continuing to rant on about how awful our country is, and how Dems did this or that.

It's amazing what we've been through. I never thought I'd live to see the day when the richest man in the world is seeking to impose austerity on those that can ill afford to misspend even one red cent. One person, not even elected by Magats. I don't know about you, but every time Musk opens his mouth, I'd like to punch Donald in the face. I do NOT want to see Donald given a pass for insurrection. I know what I saw. He needs to be in jail. I'll settle for exile, or six feet under, as long as it's natural. But, a PARDON? C'mon, that's unreal.

44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Clyburn is wrong. (Original Post) EndlessWire 3 hrs ago OP
K&R Think. Again. 3 hrs ago #1
K&R Docreed2003 3 hrs ago #2
Giving a ruthless, dangerous psychopath more power is very dangerous. Irish_Dem 3 hrs ago #3
Agree, prison for trump republianmushroom 3 hrs ago #4
I know one thing, 3 years of trying to put trump in jail didn't gain us any votes. In fact, Silent Type 3 hrs ago #5
False. W_HAMILTON 3 hrs ago #13
biden, garland, and wray proved that we are feckless and ineffective rampartd 2 hrs ago #14
We is who? KPN 1 hr ago #29
Personally, Pence should have ordered a firing squad midnight Jan 6th. I don't think anyone would have said Silent Type 1 hr ago #22
I'm going to stick with doing what's right, avoiding doing what's wrong krkaufman 2 hrs ago #21
What harm will come to trump if he is not pardoned? BOSSHOG 3 hrs ago #6
Yes it is really twilight zone worthy Meowmee 3 hrs ago #7
Agreed Mad_Machine76 3 hrs ago #8
+1 InAbLuEsTaTe 3 hrs ago #9
IMHO Timewas 3 hrs ago #10
If he had actually been punished, then you can make a case for clemency CanonRay 3 hrs ago #11
I agree. He does not deserve a pardon. Trueblue1968 1 hr ago #31
I feel that pardoning him would send a signal of weakness and submission Crunchy Frog 3 hrs ago #12
It would alienate me as well. No more interest after that, just give up stage. lostnfound 1 hr ago #25
Maybe . . . AverageOldGuy 2 hrs ago #15
It's fuckin' Lucy and the football routine! poli-junkie 2 hrs ago #16
Ford pardoning Nixon lead to tRump. . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz 2 hrs ago #17
I was dead wrong SCantiGOP 1 hr ago #24
Of Course It Did DallasNE 34 min ago #42
Trump is a criminal Jarqui 2 hrs ago #18
Totally agree vapor2 2 hrs ago #19
If he was pardoned KT2000 2 hrs ago #20
Can Biden do a conditional pardon? "I hereby pardon the MFing POS on condition he passes Democratic Silent Type 1 hr ago #23
Brian Tyler Cohen says it best; djacq 1 hr ago #26
Pardoning Trump is the worst idea I've ever heard dlk 1 hr ago #27
He SOLD our secrets to Putin. Why the fuck are these people talking about onecaliberal 1 hr ago #28
K&R UTUSN 1 hr ago #30
"Zero Tolerance" BurnDoubt 1 hr ago #32
What's in it for Clyburn? jalan48 58 min ago #33
I guess I'm behind enough to not even have heard this, but I can't even fathom the "logic" behind it JHB 53 min ago #34
Pardon the mother Fucker FHRRK 49 min ago #35
Really? IF we get to genuinely vote again. You Do want our Democracy as Imperfect as it is back, don't you? electric_blue68 44 min ago #40
Really! FHRRK 24 min ago #43
Pardoning Nixon was the undoing of the country. Hope22 49 min ago #36
I do not agree with Clyburn. LittleGirl 48 min ago #37
I respect Clyburn, and he's Wrong on This Issue!... electric_blue68 46 min ago #38
Why does he need a pardon with presidential immunity? Nt Hope22 46 min ago #39
Clyburn is 84 years old. generalbetrayus 38 min ago #41
Trump has no mercy bmichaelh 24 min ago #44

Irish_Dem

(58,803 posts)
3. Giving a ruthless, dangerous psychopath more power is very dangerous.
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 08:59 PM
3 hrs ago

It will embolden them and make their crimes worse and more numerous.

I wish people would do their homework and learn about psychopaths and their behavior.

Before they spout out dangerous ideas about how to handle them.

Silent Type

(7,133 posts)
5. I know one thing, 3 years of trying to put trump in jail didn't gain us any votes. In fact,
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 09:03 PM
3 hrs ago

one can make a case it cost us votes. Every time trump got charged and tried, his approval rating went up.

I respect Clyburn, Biden likely would not have beed elected without him. I don’t mind discussions.

W_HAMILTON

(8,535 posts)
13. False.
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 09:24 PM
3 hrs ago

(Liz Cheney)

And one could just as easily argue -- probably more so, in fact -- that our justice system treating Trump with kid gloves for four years is what cost us the election.

rampartd

(637 posts)
14. biden, garland, and wray proved that we are feckless and ineffective
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 09:31 PM
2 hrs ago

they proved that we are "soft on crime."

Silent Type

(7,133 posts)
22. Personally, Pence should have ordered a firing squad midnight Jan 6th. I don't think anyone would have said
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 10:30 PM
1 hr ago

a thing. GOPers in Congress were mad as hell, of course that changed within weeks.

Supremes were ticked to and would have called it an “official act.”

krkaufman

(13,749 posts)
21. I'm going to stick with doing what's right, avoiding doing what's wrong
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 10:20 PM
2 hrs ago

... and not worry about speculating how it might affect the vote of idiots.

BOSSHOG

(40,114 posts)
6. What harm will come to trump if he is not pardoned?
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 09:03 PM
3 hrs ago

NONE. WHATSOEVER. The potential to be held legitimately to account and punished for wrongdoing is not HARM its justice. And trump wants nothing to do with Justice. Nothing to do with fairness. Nothing to do with integrity. That’s the anthem of the Republican Party. No Justice for us. For Gods Sake No Justice for us.

Meowmee

(5,892 posts)
7. Yes it is really twilight zone worthy
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 09:05 PM
3 hrs ago

I can't believe anyone is even suggesting this to be honest. I already stopped funding d a long time ago except for candidates I like. But this will be a bridge too far for me, to say the least. It will prove to me they have no courage to fight this at all. In my opinion this is lunacy and is the worst possible thing that could be done regarding this.

Mad_Machine76

(24,780 posts)
8. Agreed
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 09:07 PM
3 hrs ago

I was aghast when I heard him talk about Biden pardoning Trump. Trump and others have already greased the wheels for him to escape accountability. Neither Biden nor anybody else should lend him a hand too.

Timewas

(2,298 posts)
10. IMHO
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 09:15 PM
3 hrs ago

It would be the biggest single mistake made by any politician anywhere any time. And would end any respect he has earned. (at least from me)

Crunchy Frog

(27,072 posts)
12. I feel that pardoning him would send a signal of weakness and submission
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 09:23 PM
3 hrs ago

on the part of the Democratic Party, and would contribute to the narrative that Dump did nothing wrong. It is genuinely the worst possible signal they could send.

It would also serve to alienate a lot of people, myself included. It would likely set the Dems up to be a permanent minority party, there to give the illusion of democracy when there is none. There to go along to get along, maintaining their comfortable positions while the country goes to shit.

This would not be an acceptable move for the party.

He doesn't even need to be pardoned as he is at no risk whatsoever of ever facing any consequences. It would do nothing but give him and his actions a degree of unearned legitimacy

SCantiGOP

(14,296 posts)
24. I was dead wrong
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 10:40 PM
1 hr ago

I thought it was probably for the best that Ford pardoned Nixon.
But if Nixon had been indicted and convicted, most of Trump’s defiant and illegal actions might never have happened, or he might have been held accountable.

DallasNE

(7,579 posts)
42. Of Course It Did
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 11:51 PM
34 min ago

And repeating a mistake means it will create a tightening spiral until the chain is broken.

Jarqui

(10,497 posts)
18. Trump is a criminal
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 10:09 PM
2 hrs ago

4 grand juries concluded Trump probably committed the crimes he was indicted for
The federal conviction rate for an indicted person is over 90%

No one should be above the law.

You can pardon for a miscarriage of justice - like Hunter got pardoned for.

You can't use the election because Elon Musk blew $250 mil and the rest of the oligarchs who controlled the media made sure Americans did not get the full accurate facts about Trump before they went to the polls.

You don't pardon someone like that.

You cannot rely on an election outcome obtained the way this one was: with massive deception.

vapor2

(1,585 posts)
19. Totally agree
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 10:09 PM
2 hrs ago

Pardoning trump would send the message that his crimes are 100% acceptable. AND he will continue to be lawless and continue to grift for the next 4 years.

KT2000

(20,907 posts)
20. If he was pardoned
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 10:17 PM
2 hrs ago

he would spend the next week bellowing how weak Biden is as well as all Democrats. He would also make up a reason it was done, such as it was all made up and they didn't want to get caught.

He is a psychopath and should not be trusted with kindness or anything actually.

I remember when he bought a casino from Merv Griffen. Griffen was ill and at the end of his life but that did not stop trump of bragging about screwing Griffen over on the price.

Silent Type

(7,133 posts)
23. Can Biden do a conditional pardon? "I hereby pardon the MFing POS on condition he passes Democratic
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 10:35 PM
1 hr ago

legislation on healthcare, childcare, gives citizenship to everyone, climate, SS, etc.”

We’d probably have to pick only a couple of those, but still

dlk

(12,454 posts)
27. Pardoning Trump is the worst idea I've ever heard
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 10:56 PM
1 hr ago

It sends a signal that the desecration of our capitol, the assault on police officers, and on our government was somehow justified.

It would give the nudge, nudge, wink, wink to fascism.

Worst idea ever!!!

PS - appeasement NEVER works!

BurnDoubt

(67 posts)
32. "Zero Tolerance"
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 11:22 PM
1 hr ago

Remember when that was a thing? I'm in 100% agreement with anyone who says these were CRIMES and those involved should be serving grievous time, long time, miserable time. The sentences meted out were less onerous than detention, and some convicted were openly arrogant at having slid-by with a slap on the wrist and augmented street-cred for being SEDITIONISTS!--- "You in a heap of trouble, there boy. We'll deal with you after the coup!"--- Without an independent Judiciary we are Fucked. Oligarchy Crime is un-prosecutable under our Constitution as long as the Right Wing can buy the Judiciary. They don't see us.

JHB

(37,447 posts)
34. I guess I'm behind enough to not even have heard this, but I can't even fathom the "logic" behind it
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 11:32 PM
53 min ago

Is Trump innocent of the many things he's been accused of? FUCK NO!

So why even suggest a pardon? What kind of donor money has Clyburn been smoking to even suggest this?

FHRRK

(975 posts)
35. Pardon the mother Fucker
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 11:36 PM
49 min ago

And I will Never vote for a Dem again!

Done with this lame ass bullshit, any Dem stating he should be pardoned has lost my vote! The leader of the Party folds then the entire party has folded!

FFS, I can’t even believe it is being discussed.

electric_blue68

(18,441 posts)
40. Really? IF we get to genuinely vote again. You Do want our Democracy as Imperfect as it is back, don't you?
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 11:40 PM
44 min ago

FHRRK

(975 posts)
43. Really!
Thu Dec 12, 2024, 12:00 AM
24 min ago

Trying to shame me into voting for those who refuse to fight!


The mother fucking Repukes tried to take away my vote on J6!

I sure as hell ain’t voting for any person who refuses to hold them responsible, Especially if Trump is pardoned.

I know my enemy.

LittleGirl

(8,463 posts)
37. I do not agree with Clyburn.
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 11:37 PM
48 min ago

Let 45 try to pardon himself next year. Let’s see how that goes over.
Pardon Reality Winner! She served nearly 5 years in prison for one effing document! 45 took thousands of government documents! Where’s is that legal? Only in maga land.

electric_blue68

(18,441 posts)
38. I respect Clyburn, and he's Wrong on This Issue!...
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 11:38 PM
46 min ago

Drumphf is a traitor inciting violence against the legitimate Election of Biden in 2020, against the Capitol Police, The Congresspeople, their staff, the Capitol staff, etc. Taking X hours to tell the people to leave, while looking like he was enjoying himself watching the terrible actions on TV.

As Endless Wire said we. all. saw. it. as it happened, or in later You Tube videos, or the Congressional Hearings replays! 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

He needs to be punished in some form, or fashion; not pardened! No way in Hell will this effin' "heal" the country!!! Are you kidding!

He's a scourge now agsinst (however imperfect!) Our Democracy, as the storm clouds of Authoritarianism ride in his wake!

( I've been doing my best to keep my worst anxiety at bay. Doing mostly well, but I expect emotional problems at times once J20 Noon happens.
Otoh, my anger comes, and goes as I read various things happening since the Election. Luckily I have a lot of interests to divert me from anxiety, or anger. But focusing on it here, now...
And, boy, I'm typing this and getting mad. Sort of "yelling" inside my mind. He's just. so. hideous. In so many ways. And he's going to be pResident... again!!!!! Gah! ) 😔

Will go stream some TV soon.

generalbetrayus

(662 posts)
41. Clyburn is 84 years old.
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 11:47 PM
38 min ago

Maybe he and other older Dems suggesting that Biden pardon tRump are trying to avoid having Kash Patel put them in jail for annoying the incoming dick-tator.

bmichaelh

(626 posts)
44. Trump has no mercy
Thu Dec 12, 2024, 12:01 AM
24 min ago

Nothing would be achieved by pardoning Trump.

Trump would not act nice if it happened.

Hillary Clinton attended his previous Presidential inauguration.

But Trump directed his DOJ to find ways to prosecute her, even though she did nothing wrong.

https://apnews.com/article/060ca2399a744b4a9554dbd2ec276a90

From Shakespeare:

MENENIUS
There is no more
mercy in him than there is milk in a male tiger.
--Shakespeare, Coriolanus 5.4.28-29

Some people should realize you should not indulge a sociopath.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Clyburn is wrong.