I am not afraid to post this:

[PCIntern]

I am a believer. I believe that there is/are civilization(s) whose technologies far exceed our own. Whether they come from other planets, the hidden core of the Earth, or the future, I do not know. But I know that something of which we are officially ignorant and officially uninformed exists.

I know this because so many individuals who are otherwise 100% reliable have testified to their witnessing of occurrences which are not of our science and not of our experience. These include airline pilots, military pilots and support staff, law enforcement personnel, and thousands of average individuals who , occasionally in groups both small and large, including one former President of these United States who is otherwise beloved on this message board.

At this point I wish to segue to those who are non-believers or posing as non-believers. Like the science of viral disease, it doesn’t not really matter what you think or assert. People have witnessed circumstances which are irrefutable and are as certain of their vision as they are of anything else in their lives. You don’t want to accept their sworn statements that is your business but it doesn’t refute the assertions that something “other-worldly” and inexplicable have been witnessed.

Many people cite the “ridiculous and absurd” stories of alien abduction and rectal probings as disproof but please allow me to ask the rhetorical question: if a maniacal hypochondriac showed up at a hospital in the depths of the Covid pandemic, claiming all sorts of Fabricated symptoms and claims of illness, do the medical personnel then state “There is no pandemic because this man or woman was mentally disturbed?” Of course not.

This was brilliantly handled in the film Contact wherein following the discovery of alien intelligence, there was a grotesque outpouring of idiocy demonstrated by a large encampment proximal to the radar telescope array where the discovery was made. This ridiculousness gave rise ultimately to the terrorist who destroyed that device whose blueprints the aliens had sent.

Now to my main point: these “drones” which have been witnessed by many have caused a great deal of alarm and anxiety. On this board, several members, myself included have posited a few apparently non-traditional ideas which are not popular with some members. My questions to the challengers of those of us who are attempting to think outside the box, put simply, “What's it to you? Why are you so angry? Why do you censor this freedom we have to express our thoughts?

For many of these critics I, in my more than twenty years here, rarely see their names until a UFO/UAP subject comes up. Why is that and by what right can you tell me what I am allowed to believe and so state? You often denigrate personally or bully some individuals into being too afraid to post. Stop it. I won’t say “please” because you have not shown the same courtesy to us.

There’s something going on, “they” have been lying to us since at least the Roswell Incident, and having had a mother and a brother who witnessed an incident in the late 1940’s, as Rhett said to Scarlett, “Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn” if you try to convince me that this one remarkable, no…incredible incident is the only outright lie either of these people ever told me in my lifetime.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

1. A long time ago, I knew someone who had close contact with Betty and Barney Hill.

I will just say this person was a high ranking military officer at the time. This person came to believe that what they said happened to them, happened to them.

[PCIntern]

2. And others...

I have a very open mind about these things, and believe that there are variety of stories which are absolutely true and clouded by those who, for whatever reason are copycat liars. I also believe the same thing happened with the assassination of President Kennedy, that the true story has been told, but it is impossible to discern because it is so confused with the fake stories that were put out.

[Timewas]

3. I also Believe

Personally I think it would be an absurdly egotistical thing to think that we are the only possible intelligent beings in the entire universe...

They are real and would not surprise me at all to find that they have been here and maybe/probably are still here.

[Delmette2.0]

72. I agree we are not alone.

1. I just hope they are peaceful.
2. I hope they are real, if not, we are the smartest beings in the galaxy or universe.

[Timewas]

73. Frightening

If in fact we are the smartest things in the universe I would be disappointed

[Delmette2.0]

75. Yep, I hope we are just to dumb to be bothered.

[hadEnuf]

120. If they land a Mar-a-lumbago they will wipe us out.

[OrangeJoe]

124. My theory FWIW

I think that any alien civilization that has conquered the problem of traveling as fast or faster than the speed of light (necessary to visit us) is a society that has learned to solve conflicts without violence or exploitation. Otherwise they would have destroyed themselves during the many millenniums it takes to develop this technology.

[Ursus Rex]

89. One of my points of reluctance is HOW they would get here.

To travel the distances involved in less than several millenia (understated) would involve a radical new interpretation of physics or even a whole system that contradicts what we already know and observe. I'm not saying it's impossible, but that seems like it would be the greatest revolution in human knowledge, ever.

[Omnipresent]

128. There is intelligent life in the Universe...

They just haven’t arrived here yet.
If they were here, they would have to wear some sort of environmental suit to cope with this bacterial soup we slurp up each time we breathe.
It wouldn’t be an easy task, for these beings to blend in.

[bluestarone]

4. Agree 100% PCinfern

There will always those that think people that see things are crazy. I could give a crap less. i'm not here to argue with them. I believe 100% in what some people witness.

[CTyankee]

5. I think this topic is of evergreen interest that crops up now and again. I don't think we can prove one way or another

that UFO's are visitors from other planets. In your case, you can cite the eyewitness accounts of your mother and brother, who you believe. I would be interested in their stories. I think it is fascinating and would like to hear more about their experiences. Perhaps you could write a bit more about it (if you haven't already). Some of here at DU would like to hear from you about it.

[PCIntern]

8. I wrote a brief synopsis in soandso's post

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219787067

[alittlelark]

6. I fully concur

And then some. I think it’s silly, vain and narcissistic to think otherwise. Of Course we are not the only life in the universe. I know religious ppl are are stuck in their dogmas, so I’ll give them a pass, but anyone else with a couple brain cells to rub together will come to the logical realization that we are not alone in this universe.

[Bonx]

7. I'm a skeptic. Waiting for irrefutable proof. Or at least something a lot better than what we've seen.

[True Dough]

61. I'm with you

Until the day that a little green creature steps onto my lawn or the second coming of Jesus Christ happens on my doorstep, I'll remain a skeptic.

I think the odds are good that there's other life in the universe, but I don't believe we've had contact yet.

[allegorical oracle]

67. Am in agreement. I'm skeptical but open-minded. Do believe that visitors would be arriving

in something snazzier than car-sized drones.

Currently think they're affiliated with our own government. Otherwise, spokespeople wouldn't be reassuring us with "there's nothing dangerous, here" comments. How would they know these crafts are not menacing?

[True Dough]

68. And in an era of AI, we have to be even more guarded

Not suggesting that the recent drone-like objects were generated by AI, but it's something else that can dupe us.

And I fully agree with you that our imaginations are quite limited when we conceive of aliens in their shape and form as well as their conveyances. We expect that they're going to somewhat resemble the human experience when they could be something that is so completely different in structure that we would be caught off guard.

[cloudbase]

9. As has been said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

What a person believes or thinks they know is immaterial, and doesn't constitute a valid argument.

[PCIntern]

10. That would include the extraordinary claim

That what thousands of people have witnessed consist of a combination of swamp gas and weather balloons. Ever see a weather balloon travel faster than an F-15 and exhibit non-ballistic motion? Now that is an extraordinary claim.

[BannonsLiver]

15. Earth is sort of the proof in my view.

What it comes down to is do we believe that earth is/was a one off? The gambler in me says the odds are against that, given the purported size of the universe. I find looking at it that way sort of takes the conversation to its most basic level without all the woo or intrigue about alien beings.

[Sympthsical]

59. Kind of speaks to Drake's equation, though

I have no doubt life is probably more profuse throughout the universe than surmised. In the next few decades, I expect us to detect something either on one of the moons in our solar system or through transmission spectroscopy on exoplanets. It may be that simple life is extremely common.

But Drake's equation is ever in my head when it comes to UFOs. You have to have life, it has to evolve into a complex form that possesses intelligence. It can't be wiped out by climate changes, astronomical events, or societal self-destruction. It then has to become capable of technology (What if they don't have something like hands? We're a dexterous species). It then has to become technological to the point that the vast distances and time considerations on a galactic or universal scale can be bridged. It has to exist in this incredibly advanced state at the same point in 13.8 billion years that we currently exist.

And with all that, it has to find us specifically - an atom on the needle in a quadrillion haystacks - and come chill. It has to do so in such a way that we never have solid verifiable evidence outside of some lights or witness statements, not even when half our planet is walking around with cameras in their pockets.

That's a lot. Not impossible - the universe is too vast to say never to many things. But I'll need a lot of evidence to believe that series of circumstances has occurred.

[cloudbase]

64. Given the numbers, I don't believe we're the only life in the universe.

It is, however, a giant leap to go from that to intra/intergalactic travel.

[Clouds Passing]

11. Conspiracy theorist...

I’m A Believer

?feature=shared

[DoBW]

12. Don't forget the Prime Directive

[usonian]

13. I'm going to go out on a limb here.

If aliens are buzzing around, they know for god damn sure that humans, with few exceptions, are self-destructive, viewing each other as unequal, somehow unworthy, and to be treated unfairly based on arbitrary privilege. These have been around through human history and threaten now to destroy the planet. What’s the value of this blue rock to anyone outside it?

Probably food supply. We are poisoning ourselves, and destroying the planet’s ability to support life. Who knows what is preventing us from making the whole planet a radioactive mess suitable for nothing? It only takes a few.

On October 27, 1962 Vasily Arkhipov, a senior Soviet Naval officer prevented a Russian submarine from launching a nuclear torpedo against ships of the United States Navy at a crucial moment in the Cuban Missile Crisis of October 1962. And averted nuclear war.

It has been touch and go since then. Knowing Trump’s firm intention to roll over when Putin launches nuclear weapons against Ukraine, the decision has been made to prevent this. Hitting Chernobyl alone could cost millions of lives and make the planet radioactive for thousands of years. And bye bye human race.

With one meal, the Aliens will secure meals for the next century or so.



And Joe (I hope and pray) is turning loose every device in Area 51 to assist in this effort. If step one is using ground-penetrating radar on drones to locate hidden documents, bodies, nuclear weapons or whatever buried in Bedminster or other places, GO JOE!

[TheRickles]

14. Thanks for going out on a limb and posting this.

I have never personally witnessed a UFO, but I am a believer because I have had first hand experiences with something just as incredible - the crop circles of southern England. There is simply no way that those were constructed by us humans, and they are beautiful, benign and awe-inspiring. For me, they are the thin end of the wedge, and I think that with each wave of Congressional hearings and "soft" disclosure, we get ever closer to learning the mind-blowing truth about what's really going on here.

[kimbutgar]

24. I was 14 and was at a Lake in Northern California camping and we all saw these lights that came down and swooped

Up. To this day I keep in touch with some of these people and they also think it was a UFO !

[Abolishinist]

44. Crop Circles Were Made by Supernatural Forces. Named Doug and Dave.

according to the NY Times and many others.

"There is simply no way that those were constructed by us humans"

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/12/style/crop-circles.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_circle#:~:text=The%20scientific%20consensus%20on%20crop,used%20to%20crush%20the%20plants.

[TheRickles]

66. Their efforts were debunked many years ago. Some major problems:

• D&D never did a public demonstration.
• The wheat stalks in their circles were crushed and broken, unlike the pristine stalks in genuine circles.
• Many formations are several hundred feet across, composed of scores of smaller circles, far beyond their planks of wood.
• Several well-documented circles were formed overnight, and one appeared during a 45-minute daytime interval.

Lots of good info (and photos) can be found here: https://www.cropcircleaccess.com/

[Abolishinist]

94. Your referenced website is a travel site established by Monique Klinkenbergh,

a self-described expert on the topic who sells tickets/tours to crop circles, scamming the farmers. She sells 'passes' to tourists, which they believe allows them access to the crops, without negotiating with the farmer - take it or leave it.

Evidence Moniques scheme isn’t working from farmers own words.

Recently a researcher we shall call P went to the Forest Hill formation near Marlborough and saw the farmer just about to cut this formation out. The researcher got the farmer to stop his tractor/mower and asked him why he was cutting it. The farmers words were thus (paraphrased)…

“We have had 20 years of these circles and at first it was manageable and we had money in the honesty boxes but now those get stolen so that doesnt work. People were a lot friendlier back then when they used to visit. Then we get people like Monique Klinkenbergh turning up with people on tours trying to bribe us with £500 to keep the circle and let people in. The crop is worth £2000 to us so we dont think £500 covers it. So we would rather cut it out to send a message to those who make them that we dont want any more. However if she wants to pay us £3000 we will let her have this circle and also you can put other circles in the field – but until then, no way!”

So there you have it. Monique turns up – insults the farmer with what they see as a low order bribe to allow the tourists in – else the farmer gets nothing.

https://www.circlemakerstv.org/?p=238

Paradoxically, and unlike almost all other modern forms of art, a crop circle’s potential to enchant is animated and energized by the anonymity of its author(s). Doug Bower now tells friends that he wishes he had kept quiet and continued his nocturnal jaunts in secret. Both circle-makers and croppies are really engaged in a kind of game, whose whole purpose is to keep the game going, to prolong the mystery. After all, who would travel thousands of miles and trek through a muddy field to see flattened wheat if it were not imbued with otherworldly mystique?

As things stand, the relationship between the circle-makers and those who interpret their work has become a curious symbiosis of art and artifice, deception and belief. All of which raises the question: Who’s hoaxing whom?

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/crop-circles-the-art-of-the-hoax-2524283/

[TheRickles]

102. Your article about Monique is from 2014. Her site now highlights the importance of obtaining farmers' permission.

https://www.cropcircleaccess.com/farmers-and-crop-circles/

And the Visitor Center is in fact a museum, with exhibits about the history of crop circles (predating Doug and Dave by several hundred years), their wide distribution (over 50 countries), the science of the circles (how next year's crop grows back in the same pattern as last year's circle - a "ghost" circle), how the wheat stalks are bent/fused but not broken (as happens with D&D's wooden planks dragged across the field), as well as measurements of a wide range of physical parameters (EMF, radioactivity, acoustics, etc.).

Worth a trip if you're in the area.

[Sugarcoated]

95. The crop circle debunkers have been thoroughly debunked

[Disaffected]

47. Huh? Crop circles (as constructed by aliens) have been thoroughly debunked.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

16. I believe humans desire for it to be true. They love to have belief in the strong probability, or absolutness of the

possibility because it is so exciting to think that it is likely true.

That which we want to believe is more believable. Similar to biased logic. The desire for it to be true clouds the judgement and makes it much more likely that the human rationalizes the belief that it is true.

The reason you likely get pushback is that many of the flaws in our human experience come from fantastical, biased and desire for exciting realities type of logic and ways of being.

The same with conspiracy type thinking. Some folks always go for the longshot explanation because it is more exciting to consider as being the situation.

[G_j]

17. Some Intelligent people have these conversations

?si=T3r8VkvQdKnftAEX

[BonnieJW]

18. I agree PC

The universe is so vast, how can we be so oblivious to think we are the only intelligent life?

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

31. "so vast", you mean the one started by the big bang and that it has a lot of suns and planets? nt

[Disaffected]

42. Again I wonder, who are all these people who claim

we are the only intelligent life??

It is worth keeping in mind that the vastness of the universe is only one-half of the equation. We know now that there are almost certainly many planets in our galaxy, let alone the universe, that are suitable habitats for the formation of life. But, the other half of the equation has to do with the probability of life, and especially for purposes of this discussion intelligent life, developing on any of these habitats. The answer is that we have no idea other than the probability lies somewhere between 0 and 1. If the actual probability is close to one, then yes, the galaxy or universe likely teems with life, OTOH if the probability is close to zero, then the possibility is very low and possibly so low that no intelligent life other than our own exists, at least at the current time, in our galaxy or, beyond.

IOWs, the probability of life other than on planet Earth remains a completely open question.

[Dave says]

46. Hey what's 13.8 billion light years amongst friends?

[Hieronymus Phact]

118. The other part of the question is time

Intelligent life in the universe is likely given its size, but also it's time frame. The most advanced civilization in our galaxy may have lived, prospered, and went extinct, or evolved away a billion years ago. Not only do they have to be in our universe, and able to locate us from wherever they are, no easy feat given the size, but they also have to exist in our time frame.

[Think. Again.]

19. Is it possible? Absolutely. Have I seen any evidence? No.

[PCIntern]

21. Point taken:

I’ve not witnessed Lincoln being shot by Booth. Did it happen…well, I didn’t see it so…maybe.

But I get it…

[Disaffected]

20. Oh well, like the poor I guess,

the gullible and credulous and, "believers", will always be with us.

BTW, I don't know of any person who considers themselves a "skeptic" who claims that no intelligent life exists other than on earth. The principle remains sound and simple - you make a claim or state a belief, you provide the (credible) evidence. Otherwise all you have is belief and speculation.

Oh, another "principle" I like to adhere to is "whether you have a slice of baloney or a mountain of baloney, it's still baloney".

[PCIntern]

22. Lotta video out there

Some of it supplied by the military. I guess it doesn’t count for anything. At all whatsoever.

[Disaffected]

25. Well then, where is it? Why not cite some of it here?

Other than lights flitting around in the night sky that is.

IOWs, where's the beef??

[PCIntern]

88. Here's one:

https://youtube.com/shorts/ylf5lYqeuCk?si=0h7Bnr8spppfLpjC

But maybe it’s swamp gas or a trash can lid being thrown up in the air. There are hundreds of videos like this, some are faked for certain. Perhaps many are: but you only need one real one.

[Disaffected]

113. Yes, which has yet to show up.

I don't know what was in that video BTW but it certainly wasn't a drone

[kimbutgar]

23. I kind of hope these drones are aliens and they are going to zap up all the evil repukes

I hope they take the orange Hitler, muskrat and all of the right wing media types. Then the billionaires like Bezos, Thiel etc.

[rubbersole]

54. Start with the billionaires.

The politicians are just employees.

[berksdem]

105. Plot twist!

Bezos is the supreme leader in human form!

[kimbutgar]

110. He does look like an alien I've seen in movies

Between the V aliens tv series and they live movie one I see a resemblance.

[slightlv]

107. Hea ive been wishing

For a democratic white knight to ride in, stand up, and save us from tfg. I'd take a savior from whatever civilization at this point.

For me, ive believed in advanced alien civilizations since I was a kid. The universe is too huge to be populated only by us. Believing in Panspermia as I do, life could be anywhere. Only advanced intelligent life would be a smaller subset of that. But I think in all the billions of years the Universe has existed, there are always greater than one advanced civilization alive at any one time. It's foolish exceptional ism to think and call ourselves the only one. The fact we hate, war against, and kill our own doesn't make us exceptional... it makes us young and dumb. I truly believe their are higher more advanced worlds than ours. The more advanced a world, the more they dream and work to achieve their dreams. Our intelligence is too low to think of all the tools and ways of a higher civilization. Im just afraid the aliens are too smart to make contact. We'll war against them the first real chance we could get. We'd be annihilated easily of course, but military and political ego would think otherwise. Save us from ourselves, please.

[Faux pas]

26. K n R

[MLAA]

27. I would be amazed to find out we were the only beings (I had to take out intelligent after recent events) in the

universe. I’m with you, PCintern.

[Callie1979]

28. The "official" explanation for Roswell has always been a joke to me

[Amaryllis]

29. CHeck out the Phoenix Lights documentary

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=phoenix+light+documentary

Celebrating the historic and still unexplained Arizona mass sighting of UFOs in 1997, including testimony from numerous eyewitnesses ranging from children, scientists, military and pilots.

I have a friend who grew up in Africa in the country and said they saw UFOs all the time. He said to me, "Why do Americans have to have their government tell them what they are? Can't they see for themselves? They are the people from the sky."

[LiberalLovinLug]

99. What amazed me at the time was how many people just dismissed it

In spite of no explanation given. i remember a concerted effort by government officials to mock anyone who believed it was some unearthly event. With the mayor even having someone dress up in an alien costume as a way to ridicule anyone who thought it might be extraterrestrial.

[Sogo]

100. You might love the film, "The Gods Must be Crazy." It's hilarious....

"The tribal people in a remote African desert live a happy life, but it is all torn to pieces when a Coca-Cola bottle falls from a plane. With the villagers fighting over the strange foreign object, tribal leader Xi (N!xau) decides to take the bottle back to the gods to restore peace. His journey to the "end of the world" eventually has him crossing paths with a bumbling scientist (Marius Weyers) and a band of guerrillas who take a schoolteacher (Sandra Prinsloo) and her class hostage."

[Amaryllis]

111. have rewatched it many times!

[Mike 03]

138. That was an exciting night.

I lived in Los Angeles at the time and was listening to the Art Bell late night talk radio show Coast To Coast AM. He was fascinated by all those taboo subjects like UFOs, Technical Remote Viewing, earth changes and prophesies of earth changes, crop configurations, cattle mutilations, skinwalkers, the "Face on Mars," chupacabras, all of that. So this event really gave him something to talk about...for months afterwards.

But my entire family was a little bit north of Phoenix, scattered around. We all go to bed early in this family so they apparently didn't see anything, though when I later looked at the alleged track of the lights, they would have passed right over at least my parents and one of my sisters.

Just thinking about it brings back the excitement of that time. There was a lot going on beside the Phoenix Lights as we made our way towards the change to the new millennium.

[bucolic_frolic]

30. This is a great time for DU to re-launch as a UFO site.

Though I do think it's a data gathering operation for a contracted company. If it were foreign, someone would make an effort to stop it.

They probably know what I'm typing right now.

[PCIntern]

32. Well, that's my point...

These deniers are often ANGRY. Why? How does our belief hurt them to the point that they become vituperative? Perhaps the question should be, for whom are they working?

[thebigidea]

104. The flat earth people say the same shit. It's a nice disrtraction I guess from not having evidence

[littlemissmartypants]

79. Why stop there? ...

Maybe we should have our own paranormal activity club. I'm not sure if I'm serious, though. 👽

[Marthe48]

33. I hope they are the cavalry

The deus ex machina that will solve the current insanity that's overcome our country. Maybe insanity tastes better than intelligence and the rwnj will get harvested.

[proud patriot]

34. this thread made me think of the old Sci Fi movie "They live"

then I thought of muskrat ..

creeped me out ..

I hope they come in peace for our planet's survival and not
the They Live scenario

[stillcool]

35. I like to look up...

I got nothing.

[Dave says]

36. Maybe it's the NJ "drone" thing

But just yesterday a friend and I discussed the same - she firmly believing something is going on, whether (eerily similar to your remarks) extra-terrestrial, maybe terrestrial but from beneath the surface of the earth, military, or just plain unknown, but things are happening and info is likely being kept from us.

She is a PhD, practicing psychologist. I have a lot of respect for her, but I wasn’t expecting to hear this. Note, however, that my respect has not diminished a bit. So I keep an open mind.

Eery. Who was that broadcaster from a few decades ago that had an overnight show where he’d discuss such things with various guests? I’d listen while driving overnight to clients’ cities. Very entertaining! No doubt he’d have a lot to say about the recent “drone” sightings!

[Delmette2.0]

74. You might be thinking of Art Bell.

His show was Coast to Coast AM.

[Dave says]

84. That's the guy and that's the show!

Thanks!

Very spooky (and fun) while driving 4 hours to get to a client (I preferred to drive instead of fly, still do, when the drive is 5 hours or less, and I’ve always been a night owl).

[Delmette2.0]

97. I use to listen to him every night.

Only once did his program scare me. I was in the safety of my home, so I eventually got to sleep.
There was not way I would drive alone and listen to him.

[osteopath6]

37. Just chiming in

To say 100% agreed. I believe it's the most important issue to face the species in its existence, and the way we react to the process of catastrophic disclosure. The evidence has been all around us, for nearly a century.

I'm proud to admit I'm there with you. I believe NHI is responsible for some of the UAP/TUO

[exmodee]

38. I try to keep an open mind

I have read the testimony from the pilots and I agree that a lot of what they have seen does not seem explainable. But the thing that holds me back from going all in is the *sheer distance* between solar systems and galaxies. I can't see how living beings would be able to traverse those distances. Now, machines maybe could - but machines also age, and particularly so with the timeframes involved. Even if the time and distance could be overcome with some kind of amazing technology, it just seems unlikely that a species would be able to zero in on our tiny planet with such precision - and go unnoticed by our own surveillance systems while doing so. I respect those who can overcome these mental obstacles for themselves. I simply can't.

[cachukis]

39. Physics rules.

[PJMcK]

40. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

The evidence of alien life interacting with humans does not exist beyond fantasy.

There is life elsewhere in the universe but the vast distances prevent any cross-polination.

We are alone in our corner of the universe and we must protect the Earth, the only planet we will ever inhabit.

[NoRethugFriends]

62. Stop making sense!

[Wiz Imp]

41. Wow

Just Wow

[Xipe Totec]

52. Yup.

And we wonder how Trump won.

[PCIntern]

76. Oh really...

I’m gonna tell you that the reason Trump won was because there are so many intellectually bereft morons in this country who dismiss fact because of what they wish to see or have happen. That’s why he won.

[Xipe Totec]

134. I can't argue with that.

So far, I haven't seen facts presented; only unsupported assertions.

[NJCher]

43. hah

My questions to the challengers of those of us who are attempting to think outside the box, put simply, “What's it to you? Why are you so angry? Why do you censor this freedom we have to express our thoughts?

I knew who you were talking about and I didn't even have to look for the user names.

I also noticed the same pattern--anger, calls for you to shut you down.

This I noticed years ago. Same old same old.

[SWBTATTReg]

123. Exactly right. There are people who shut discussions like this down, citing 'physics' and other nonsense,

thinking that that word alone is enough to stop such discussions?! Gee whiz, I didn't know that the human race knew everything about physics and all of science. Wow. We know 100% of everything. Ha ha heh. I laugh at this stupid and ridiculous excuse that claims that is why we don't see any 'aliens'. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

What is the motive of those that want to stop such discussions? I have a strong, strong opinion that it's the air force or other similar entities. When I accused some as being such, it's amazing how quickly they denied it, and how quickly they dropped off the face of the Earth. Such actions on their part leads me to believe that in fact, there is something out there, and that's besides what I've seen myself, which is not part of this discussion and won't be.

There are too many witnesses. There are too many distractors who jump in, try and besmirch others for their sightings, all w/o evidence of their own to prove otherwise. They claim the ridiculous argument that evidence should be beyond the ridiculous standard that THEY set. Don't listen to them.

In my opinion, if the damn things hit them in the head, they still wouldn't have seen anything. And in my serious opinion, some w/ entities of this Country, the Air Force and such. You have a right to what you saw. Believe in it. And, it's getting harder and harder to have others disprove it, there are more and more of us witnesses each and every day, increasing. Before long, aren't going to be able to hide anything anymore.

[NJCher]

125. tldr

I think you're trying to be satirical or funny but being an English teacher, my standards for such things are a little higher than this. Couldn't get past the second line.

[SWBTATTReg]

130. Good for you, don't read it then. But you still had to make a sarcastic remark. Nice.

[FirstLight]

45. It wouldn't surprise me if it was "something/someone" else

so I agree with you there... Maybe some advanced culture is watching out for the drastic turn we're headed toward.

Then again, that magical thinking can get us in trouble...thinking maybe we could be saved from ourselves at the last minute...

we shall see.

It's also understandable that there's always going to be people who can't wrap their heads around new worldviews...it was hard for many to "believe" in evolution, hell, many still don't. So I guess we just have to understand that's where they are coming from. and if they bash your beliefs in something bigger, that's on them.

[Swede]

48. I can't who said it "What an awesome thing if there is life out there, what an awesome thing if there isn't"

Many years ago me and a buddy went to look at a crop circle. We'd both heard rumours it was east of town. We went. And there it was. Eerie walking to the center of it. It was before cellphones so we kicked ourselves for not bringing a camera.

I was waiting for it to hit the local news, students playing a hoax. But nothing ever hit the news.

[Kid Berwyn]

71. Arthur C. Clarke...maybe...

“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.”

His great writings include the short story, “The Nine Billion Names of God.”

[lonely bird]

49. Hmmm.

Neither am I afraid.

I am afraid we have not been visited. I do think that there is intelligent life. I also think that the likely only method of travel to overcome the distances involved is manipulation of space-time. Travel at near light speed would require ships containing multi-generational populations with an extremely varied gene pool. In addition, the social/psychological impact of leaving the home planet would be enormous. We have 7+ billion here and look at the destructive nature of humanity. Compress that population down into say 10,000 people in a very small, relatively speaking, space and the odds of destruction, imo, skyrocket.

We have no way of knowing anything about other life forms. That being said we inevitably make the assumption that they are carbon-based, require oxygen to breathe, water to drink and what we consider food to eat. We humanize them because we are human.

Beyond that, technologically advanced species would, again, imo, either go out of their way to be undetected or they would think us unimportant. As beneath them as ants or insects are beneath us.

As for eye witness accounts? Unreliable. Do I think that people who claim they have seen something are lying? No. I think that they believe it. Which is not the same as having seen something. Was Fatima real? I have no idea. In the end it does not matter.

[3825-87867]

50. "The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street"

If we are being visited by beings from other worlds, other times or other dimensions, we need to understand they may not be the benevolent hope of mankind. In theory, the monsters on Maple Street may already be here. And it seems many don't want to have a legit physical! Plus, if they are here and are not friendly, shouldn't we be looking for those who don't seem to like the rest of us or want to cause trouble?

Or just maybe we're the psychology experiment of some advanced race using us as we used guinea pigs. Not sure about that one? Tell me again what does this world have to gain with the likes of putin or stump? I just hope whomever the kids are conducting the experiment, they get an "A".

[Dave Bowman]

81. "they may not be the benevolent hope of mankind"

It reminds me of the original Independence Day, the scene where a crowd of people who believe that the aliens are saviors get vaporized.

[rajuncajdim]

51. nor should you be

just look at the map on the U.N. flag, instead of thinking outer space upwards, think outer space that surrounds you, beyond the antartic ICE RING.You know, the place that since what 1959? is OFF LIMITS to the average human..That outer space.

[AllaN01Bear]

53. i have felt this way a very long time

[3825-87867]

55. From Ghostbusters.

[NewLarry]

56. From your first paragraph:

"But I know that something of which we are officially ignorant and officially uninformed exists."

The word "know". Factual knowledge requires evidence and proof. Since there's still a big U at the beginning of the descriptions (UFO/UAP), I suspect factual knowledge isn't what you mean.

The other way to interpret "know" is as "unshakable belief". This requires no proof or evidence, because it's simply faith. Much the same as belief in karma, fate, or a supreme being. No proof required, or even possible.

If you want me to take what you know as fact, provide evidence. An intact vessel or better yet an actual being would work. Until then, as far as I'm concerned, what you have is belief, not knowledge.

I don't take issue with your belief, it's yours and I'm good with that. Just as is my belief in a supreme being that I call God. I cannot prove God's existence, and I don't need to, because it's not fact-based, it's belief-based.

So until I'm presented with convincing evidence, I'll continue to consider your knowledge as a belief.

[berksdem]

106. Well said NewLarry...

Yes, I am a skeptic but people believe what they want. I don't get angry when folks have their own beliefs but they do not align to my thought processes. Until there is strong scientific evidence I will remain a skeptic. I will say though it is fun to talk about!

[Hekate]

57. KnR

[IbogaProject]

58. I beg to differ

While I would never rule that possibility out I am doubtful. I feel the whole aliens and ufo is just nazi sourced tech. Our country brought nazis here in two cohorts. The public Operation Paperclip in 47 of scientists especially rocket and nuclear. Then in 53 tge GOP brought tens of thousands of german functionary families to rebuild their party. The Nazis were working on UFO type craft. I feel they might eventually stage a "alien invasion" to have a fascist takeover.

Here is a more simple theory, government or contractor research. They have an ability to deplete civilian drone batteries rapidly without contact. https://www.app.com/story/news/local/new-jersey/2024/12/11/drones-over-new-jersey-likely-military-or-defense-contractor-expert-pramod-abichandani/76898388007/

[H2O Man]

60. Recommended.

When I worked at the mental health clinic, my supervisor was talking about how a few of his clients who lived in a rural area all had similar abduction stories. Someone questioned that, and my supervisor said it was not up to him to believe or disbelieve them.

I spent a lot of time with the Wisdom Keepers of the Iroquois Confederacy. I remember when the BCI investigators would ask the Tadodaho for help in finding "missing" children.

There are energy levels that our senses generally do not pick up on. But they are all around us.

[DET]

63. Thank You

I’m fully open to all possibilities. I don’t get why so many people here - of all places - insist on deriding people who don’t share their skepticism. Personally, I suspect that the latest ‘drones’ are part of some military operation by us or some other country, but it would be fascinating if that turned out not to be true.

I have the same issue with respect to the latest election. I and many others have been ruthlessly run down for believing that the election was stolen by a malignant narcissistic sociopathic rapist and felon who is known to have deliberately attempted to steal the last election - now aided by the richest man in the world, plus assorted billionaires foreign and domestic. And people think it’s far fetched? It’s fine to voice skepticism, but folks don’t need to be vicious.

[soandso]

65. Thank you for posting this

[OldEuropean]

69. Honestly, does it actually matter?

Even if tomorrow some people find a downed UFO and it can be proven that the material or technology must be alien or they find the pilot, it would not matter to humanity beside that the nation that can secure, reverse engineer and use the alien tech will have some advantage.
If there are aliens and they have decided to not impact humanity in any positive or negative way, it would be the same as if they wouldn't exist.
Only some religious hardcore believers would go crazy as this would likely invalidate their precious fantasy world.

So all the reports, sightings, eye witnesses, videos are interesting, for sure. But nothing more, if we don't learn about the intentions of the aliens.

[justaprogressive]

70. Childhood's End

Arthur C Clarke...


It would be an awful waste of space... ~ Jodie Foster

[bif]

77. I just started a series of paintings that are copies of cave art

When you look at some of the images, you'd swear they were of aliens.

https://markdomincreative.blogspot.com

[Abolishinist]

96. I really like your work! I checked out a few other dates, for example May 2019.

All are good, but the consevatory and the goldfish bowl paintings must be wonderful in person.

If mentioned, I missed it. Which medium(s) do you prefer, and what is the typical size of your paintings?

[bif]

115. Thanks!I mostly paint in acrylics

But I've been learning about the world of watercolors. Most of my paintings are 9" X 12" or 11" x 14".

[Rob H.]

78. "...posing as non-believers..."

Atheists are the most distrusted religious minority in the US--why on earth would someone "pose" as a non-believer?

[Croney]

82. I was just about to address the "posing as a nonbeliever"

because it made me smile. As an atheist, I sometimes try to pose as a believer, to see if I've changed my mind, but the outcome is always the same. I'm an atheist.

Where is God in the discussion of UFO's and aliens and other civilizations?

[Basso8vb]

80. Sounds just like certain theological discussions I avoid.

[CoopersDad]

83. If sentient ETs are here out of concern for the planet, maybe they're going to come out...

... to us before inauguration day.

I'm not kidding; I'm hoping.

[vanessa_ca]

85. I'm with you, but in no rush

"One day, we might receive a signal from a planet like Gliese 832 c. But we should be wary of answering back. Meeting an advanced civilization could be like Native Americans encountering Columbus. That didn't turn out so well."

Stephen Hawking in reference to potentially habitable alien planet Gliese 832c.

https://www.space.com/34184-stephen-hawking-afraid-alien-civilizations.html

Alien-like signal from 2023 has been decoded. The next step is to figure out what it means

[Mike 03]

86. I appreciate your post.

I've been in the "I want to believe" category my whole life.

What you said about highly credentialed, responsible, credible witnesses is true. In fact, I thought after the "Tic Tac" interviews and footage was made public, the skepticism would die down.

In any event, there are some very interesting books on this subject. Most of the books I've read about UFOs have not been good, but a couple stand out:

"UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go on The Record" by Leslie Kean

"Disclosure: Military and Government Witnesses Reveal The Greatest Secrets in Modern History" by Steven M. Greer

Jim Marr's book "Alien Agenda" was subject to a fair amount of ridicule but actually contains some really fascinating material.

[PCIntern]

87. Rule of thumb:

The more ridicule, the more cogent and reliable the material is if it’s coming from thoughtful competent sources.

[philly_bob]

114. PCIntern is a reliable observer, although I am skeptical on this subject. /nt

[bigtree]

91. sci-fi movies

...have produced 'drone wars' where mass attacks are carried out by hundreds of thousands of armed or weaponized drones.

I'd look for a military source, or an earthly one that may well be foreign, before I supposed aliens were penetrating our world's atmosphere to taunt and mesmerize gawd knows who on the East Coast.

Otoh, it's probably better for the public to suppose or believe there's some sort of Mystery Science Theater thing going on to tamp down panic and dread.

[Evolve Dammit]

92. The "landing strips" in South America made BC could not have been created by people on the ground. Mayans/Incas.

Only viewable from the air. Easter Island and Stonehenge are slave labor possibly? I'm open.
Oh and the remains from Roswell ended up at Wright-Patterson AFB in OH, never to see the light of day.

[Sugarcoated]

93. People shouldn't be afraid to speak out

publicly, and there's nothing wrong with discussing unexplained sightings and experiences.

[Joinfortmill]

98. Generally, I've noticed a lot more rudeness lately.

[Kid Berwyn]

101. Jimmy Carter asked CIA Director Bush to brief him on UFOs, and Bush

...said no.

This one blew a lot of fuses, if not minds...from DU 2004:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1956796

PS: Thank you for sharing, Doctor. What your mom and brother experienced is extraordinary in every way.

[Kali]

103. not necessarily specific to your current subject, but there ARE reasons to "censor" ridiculous "theories"

Last edited Fri Dec 13, 2024, 06:17 PM - Edit history (1)

because the giving of equal time to crack pots is fucking dangerous. see for example RFKJr.

allowing conspiracy theories to proliferate in a population that is uneducated and susceptible to bullshit is a really bad idea. I don't know the mechanism to make the decision to "censor" what but I sure do see reasons to do it.

[cer7711]

108. "In the absence of evidence it is a capital mistake to theorize."

Sherlock Holmes once remarked to Dr. Watson.

Wild, rootless conjectures derived from fanicul notions and "try-hard" wish-fulfillment expostulations get us nowhere.

Shoot one of these UAPs down. Examine incontrovertible physical evidence. Then we'll talk.

[PCIntern]

109. It has likely already occurred

Many scientists and former military have stated on camera that wreckage has been confiscated and studied. Many.

And by the way, I have no need to “talk”. I’ve been listening to you folks for over 60 of my 70+ years. There is no “talking”. Everything you folks say is dismissive no matter what the circumstances are. Swamp gas? Weather balloons? You ever see a weather balloon traveling at hypersonic speeds according to the military pilots who’ve witnessed them? Of course you have…they’re really trash can lids thrown very hard. 🙄

[LoveSucky]

112. I hope there are aliens and I hope they hot af too.

[Montauk6]

116. I figured they were offspring of that big pregnant white balloon that no one talks about anymore.

[HeartsCanHope]

117. The Universe is vast, far beyond our understanding inspite of all our technological advances.

I don't know much about UFOs, but I also believe that it is within the realm of possibility that people from other worlds have made contact. Who am I to tell someone else that what they believe occurred did not happen? Your questions in your post, “What's it to you? Why are you so angry? Why do you censor this freedom we have to express our thoughts?" are questions that should be asked of all those who seek to hurt others, no matter what the topic is. In my opinion that is one of the reasons we are in the mess we are in, many people in our country are not willing to listen to differing viewpoints and respect others. We don't have to always agree. The caveat, of course, is as long as that viewpoint doesn't harm or disrespect others what does it hurt to listen without judgment? Thank you for speaking up for others, PCIntern. You take care.

[Elessar Zappa]

121. Agree.

I’m a skeptic generally but I think there’s evidence that something (who knows what) is going on that we don’t yet understand.

[OldBaldy1701E]

122. Only arrogance would make someone believe that we are alone in the universe.

Just because they have not decided to bother with us idiots yet doesn't mean they are not enjoying the latest episode of 'Earth's Funniest Videos' while simultaneously laughing and screaming with fear.

A friend once showed me a 'dystopian future' script that he was working on. In it, we humans discover that dogs can actually speak (with difficulty since their mouths are not able to make the same sounds that we can), are intelligent, and telepathic. The human is shocked and starts babbling about why did the dogs never indicate that they were so and expounding on all the great things that humans and dogs could have done together. The dog sadly replies that only a fool sells himself into slavery. The human doesn't get it at first (of course), but finally sees that, from their perspective, that it would be beyond folly to throw in with the people who had historically been treating you like a disposable servant/pet class since they would just take even more advantage of you.

But, humans always do. Hell, we do it to each other, you don't think we would have turned them into the next class of 'less than us'? So, why would aliens want to get mixed up with us? I hope they have this planet flagged to avoid. If they have any sense, they should. We cannot accept people from another part of this world, what makes us think we are ready to deal with peoples from another one?

[Iggo]

126. Jeez.

[marble falls]

127. I'm not afraid for you to post this also!

[Hekate]

129. Finally caught a report on MSNBC with Katy Tur, and she was very focused, had good guests...

Nobody’s “panicking” but it sure is weird. One guest was quite sure it is the Chinese, and gave excellent reasons for thinking so. A New Jersey elected official related more info about what it is like to experience this phenomenon.

I was thinking they should just be shot down, when it turned out some are as big as a car. Shooting that down would result in fatalities on the ground, needless to say.

Someone is messing with us, and frankly I think the governmental entities who have info should share some of it.

(Katy Tur really is a good reporter when she focuses. She also did well on her segment about polio vaccines. )

[ms.pamela]

131. I am not afraid either

Pc Intern and all others yes others do reside within our universe or maybe another universe. I will tell you of 2 experiences I have had regarding things that were not from this world. About 50 years ago, my former husband and I drove from Chicago to Pennsylvania. He was stationed at the Naval Station in North Chicago and we were going to see my parents over the Labor Day weekend. While driving through Chicago my former husband noticed unusual pink lights in the skies of Chicago. Since it was a rather large city I thought there was a reasonable explanation for them. We were traveling through Michigan when he began to see them again. This time he quickly pulled over from the freeway and stopped. Hovering over our car and barely giving off a slight hum was what people call a UFO. I started to get out of the car for a better look all the while my husband was begging me to stay inside the vehicle. I told him to be quiet and I did get out of the car. I closely took a good look at this craft. Let me tell you my father was in the Air Force and I had seen jets up close. This craft was seamless, a mat silver, a metal that I had never seen in my lifetime. There was a hot pink rather large light at the bottom of the spacecraft, Small lights surrounded the top part of the spacecraft. I was not afraid; I was happy to know that other beings existed. After my thought the UFO went straight up, it zigged and zagged, and then it disappeared. The speed the craft traveled was unbelievable, there were no supersonic sounds either. I knew we did not have the technology for this.

The other night I was on Bluesky and someone posted strange objects over the Duke Nuclear power plant in North Carolina. There were three objects above the plant. The one on top was a flashing green object. The first object appeared to be disk-like, and below it were two oblong orange-colored rods. Thirty-four years ago I saw similar lights in our skies in Western Washington as the first one over the power plant. My daughters and niece watched as these flashing disks changed color and shapes, sometimes, green, red, and blue. There were three groups of them and as they changed color they changed their flight patterns, sometimes circles, triangles, rectangles, and squares. It was quite a show. Later I learned more than just us had seen these objects and many folks had called the authorities and were told there was nothing they could do about it. I heard on the news last night that our country's radar and other sensors can't pick these things up. Our military doesn't know where they come from or go. These crafts are not from our planet as this technology is light years away from any nation. Truly to believe we are the only creatures in this universe is arrogant. I think other beings have probably been watching us for thousands of years and I am embarrassed that they see all the terrible things humans do to each other and the earth. I also believe they are forbidden to interfere with our problems except if it will impact others in the universe. Maybe these beings are worried about what Trump may do, just a thought.

[EarnestPutz]

132. So long, and thanks for all the fish".

[MartyTheGreek]

133. I concur! The very tech we're using here could likely be of Alien origin...

Ref: Col Corso, The Day After Roswell

In the book and later in life at UFO conferences, Corso said when the soldiers went inside the crashed craft and peered outside the dome, they saw daylight! - night Vision! When they looked under to consul they found "glass wires" - Fiber optics! Corso was ordered by his general to take bits and parts to Bell labs and he gave them pieces of what we now call a circuit board. Their scientists were excited as they were working on something similar at the time. Corso was instructed to tell Bell Labs to make products for the country and keep the patents.

During a conference, Corso stated that when they did the alien autopsy, their skulls had crystals inside and they thought it was part of the crafts navigation system. Does Musk's neuro link sound familiar? Who needs mechanics when you can just think it?

Is it a coincidence that the Roswell crash was near the bomber group air command that dropped the nukes on Japan? Roswell included the Trinity crash site too but Roswell gets all of the attention.

So we go from the Model T Ford in 1907? Air flight in 1914? And, we're walking on the Moon 60 years later? One lifetime? UFO believers say we got help! Supposedly the TR-3B Triangle craft is reverse engineered to about 89% antigravity according to an aerospace guy who would know.

Think about it, we just defeated Germany and Japan post WWII and now Army AF is going to tell the public suddenly we have a new enemy? How the story went from crashed saucer to a weather balloon within 24 hours?

Today, Dr. Greer was on a podcast saying the drones are ours but under control of a secret cabal and it could go two ways. The cabal could fake an alien invasion event and they have tech that can plaster an image two miles wide in the sky to make it a monster or god scene or we have a coordinated disclosure and we can get the tech to use to our benefit and the alien advanced science to geoengineer the planet to restore it. Here's two related links:
TR-3B:

&t=1364s Dr. Greer: