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Emrys

(8,583 posts)
Tue Apr 8, 2025, 06:37 PM Apr 8

Updated history: Trump signs rare earth minerals deal

(Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Vlodymyr Zelensky on Thursday backed having companies from the United States develop Ukraine's reserves of rare earth minerals, despite formidable obstacles to industrial mining in the country.

The comments, at a meeting in New York, were the latest in a series in which both U.S. officials and the Ukrainian government have emphasized the potential strategic value of Ukraine's vast and largely untapped mineral reserves.
...
"They agreed that such initiatives would help American companies develop materials critical to national security while growing Ukraine's economy and creating new jobs in both countries, therefore defraying some of the costs of United States assistance as Ukrainians become more self-reliant," the White House said.


History rhymes.

Original (and true) article from 2017:

Trump, Ghani agree U.S. can help develop Afghanistan's rare earth minerals

(Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump and Afghan President Ashraf Ghani on Thursday backed having companies from the United States develop Afghanistan's reserves of rare earth minerals, despite formidable obstacles to industrial mining in the country.

The comments, at a meeting in New York, were the latest in a series in which both U.S. officials and the Afghan government have emphasized the potential strategic value of Afghanistan's vast and largely untapped mineral reserves.

Both leaders also reiterated their commitment to Trump's new South Asia strategy to defeat terrorism.

But after 16 years in Afghanistan, the U.S. is looking for ways to offset the billions of dollars spent every year in propping up the government in Kabul and mining is increasingly being seen as a way to do that.

"They agreed that such initiatives would help American companies develop materials critical to national security while growing Afghanistan's economy and creating new jobs in both countries, therefore defraying some of the costs of United States assistance as Afghans become more self-reliant," the White House said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/trump-ghani-agree-us-can-help-develop-afghanistans-rare-earth-minerals-idUSKCN1BX067/


Well, it would, except Trump's "deal" with Afghanistan, even though doomed as it turned out, was much more generous that anything he's proposed to the Ukrainians so far.

How Trump has already signed rare earth deals and how it ended

On September 22, 2017, Trump received the approval of the President of Afghanistan to enter into a “mineral deal,” the reserves of which in Afghanistan were then estimated at $1 trillion.

After reaching such an agreement with the Afghan government, Trump began secret negotiations with the enemies of the Afghan government – the Taliban.

The negotiations were canceled several times.

After another Taliban terrorist attack, Trump even called off the talks, writing on his Twitter:“They thought they needed to kill people to put themselves in a slightly better negotiating position. When they did this, they killed 12 people… This cannot be done. You cannot do this with me… Over the past four days, we hit the Taliban harder than in the last 10 years. That’s the situation.”

But nothing! When Trump needs it, he easily rewinds everything and pretends that this was the plan all along!

Eventually, negotiations with the Taliban ended in the signing of the “peace agreement with the U.S.” – an agreement of betrayal of the government and the transfer of Afghanistan’s governance to the Taliban movement.

Trump needed at least eight rounds of secret talks with the Taliban to sign the deal, under which the U.S. would withdraw from Afghanistan, leaving the country to the Taliban.

https://ukrainefrontlines.com/news/ukraine/how-trump-has-already-signed-rare-earths-deals-and-how-it-ended/
10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Tickle

(4,025 posts)
1. What?
Tue Apr 8, 2025, 06:42 PM
Apr 8

Didn’t I just read that China is restricting mineral exports to the U.S.?

It’s been one of those days... I’m honestly not sure how much more I can take.

I know you mentioned Ukraine, and I hear you—but I’m feeling overwhelmed right now.

Emrys

(8,583 posts)
2. Apologies
Tue Apr 8, 2025, 06:46 PM
Apr 8

The first extract is "rewritten" to refer to Ukraine, closely based on the 2017 Reuters story that follows it, about a rare earth minerals deal between Trump and Afghanistan that didn't work out well. Hope that helps.

The last thing I'd want to do is add to anyone's sense of being overwhelmed at the moment.

EndlessWire

(7,732 posts)
9. No. I thought you were saying
Wed Apr 9, 2025, 05:03 PM
Apr 9

that Zel had signed. I hate trump with the heat of a thousand suns. I don't want Ukraine to sign their independence away to the likes of trump. Of course, when we get rid of trump--and we WILL--we could always revisit any "deal" the Orange Hellbeast made. I trust Zel to do what he sees as necessary to protect Ukraine, as long as he recognizes that trump is a lying, cheating bastard who will sell Ukraine out to Russia in a heartbeat for a few flattering words.

I didn't mean to upset you.

Emrys

(8,583 posts)
10. No no, you didn't upset me
Wed Apr 9, 2025, 05:15 PM
Apr 9

I was concerned I might have upset you!

If Zelensky had signed, I'd have included that clearly in the title and provided a URL. As it was, I post stuff about Ukraine quite regularly, and it sometimes sinks like a stone with a simple, factual title or text. I felt like trying something different, and when I came across the story from Ukraine Front Lines about Trump trying this schtick before and conniving with the Taliban, it seems too ironic to miss, given many of us are on tenterhooks about what's going to happen with the "deal".

Thing is, if I now know about what happened with Trump and the Taliban and an Ukrainian blogger does, it's a cert that Zelensky and his team do too. I don't know what they'll decide to do, but whatever, I hope it's for the best.

Nictuku

(4,168 posts)
5. I really hope this is not true (re: Ukraine)
Tue Apr 8, 2025, 07:50 PM
Apr 8

The first 'deal' for rare earth materials was not good for Ukraine.

The next version of it, was still not good, but it was not so bad. This was the deal Ukraine had agreed to sign.

But THEN the US re-wrote it, and the latest 'deal' is really very very bad for Ukraine, and I hope that Zelensky won't sign it. (I don't think he would, but that is what had my eyes pop out when I read the OP here)

The latest deal basically gives the US profits from ALL FUTURE Ukrainian mining, but also all their other resources (oil revenues, etc), with ZERO Security for Ukraine. It also includes the US gain profits from PRIVATE companies in Ukraine. Additionally, instead of the account being located in Ukraine, it would be in the US, where the US had to approve of any use of the funds, where the US could appoint 3 people and Ukraine only 2 (i.e. so US will always get approval for what it wants to do with the funds and Ukraine would not have enough votes to overrule). It was a TERRIBLE deal, and as far as I know, that is the last one up on the table.

Again, I hope Ukraine does not sign it.

Emrys

(8,583 posts)
6. There's a lack of information about the latest version of the "deal" to be discussed later this week
Tue Apr 8, 2025, 08:44 PM
Apr 8

Zelensky had indicated that the last version made public was a non-starter, for a few reasons, most of which you've ably outlined. We'll have to wait and see whether the negotiators (including a specialist international law firm the Ukrainians have engaged) will be able to come up with a less insane version later this week.

When these rounds of talks started, they were billed as "talks about talks", preliminaries to more concrete discussions, and anything signed would just mean that negotiations would continue. Whether that's still the case isn't clear. But any agreement will need to pass through Ukraine's parliament for ratification, not least because any agreements about Ukraine's subsurface resources are governed by the Ukrainian constitution and can't be signed lightly. Even in a time of war and with Trump's attempted coercion, there's no guarantee the parliament would vote for acceptance, though I suppose Zelensky could tell Trump he'd given it his best shot, but no go (which might even be his plan).

Nictuku

(4,168 posts)
7. It seems inevitable to me
Tue Apr 8, 2025, 09:33 PM
Apr 8

It seems inevitable to me that TSF will use anything he can to stop all support of Ukraine. I think the Military Industrial Complex might have something to say about that, (sick as that thought is).

What I think is going to happen is not good. It is why my head aches (one of a million reasons lately). Calgon, Take me Away!

Here is my current take: In the middle of all this tariff crisis, and his failure to 'stop the war' in his first day (let alone 100 days), and the stock market crashing..... he will need a distraction. (Squirrel!!! Look over here!) He tried the Third Term Baloon, didn't fly.

Did you know that many Spirit B2 Bombers (that can do deep bunker bombing) are recently gathered at Diego Garcia? That combined with the Open Threats of Bombing Iran if they Don't Make a Nuclear deal (there is a nuclear deal???)

In light of all the above, I actually do think TSF is going to attack Iran (this throws us into he being a 'War Time President' and grant him even more powers). Russia/Ukraine will be on the back burner -- and both sides will take advantage of it. Ukraine will keep killing Russians on the front line, while bombing more Oil refineries/storage, Russia will keep bombing Civilians and trying to take more Ukraine land.

If TSF attacks Iran, Putin will not take this very well (maybe? who knows the mind of mad men), but Iran is assisting Russia (mostly with drones) in its attacks on Ukraine. North Korea has troops fighting Ukrainians, but they have not been used on Ukraine land so far, only in Kursk (which is Russia land).

But now I'm hearing that the Chinese ARE attacking Ukrainians on Ukrainian land. Only 2 that I've heard of, but I think Zelensky has more intel on the actual numbers.

So, Russia, Iran, China, North Korea all fighting Ukraine.

The US backs out and says: Please Proceed

It sickens me. Especially when TSF first took office, he actually had a chance to BEAT PUTIN. I really believe this. Russia's economy was getting close to collapse (mostly from sanctions and Ukraine bombing their oil refineries) . Putin was forcing Banks to give um-secured loans to the Military. If the US supplied Ukraine with some of the more modern and Awesome weapons, I think it could have broken Russia, and like Afghanistan and Syria, they would claim victory and depart.

Instead, TSF has given Putin a Lifeline. He is considering lifting sanctions. He is doing EVERYTHING that is on Putin's Wish List to weaken the West and NATO.

I imagine Putin, TSF, Chi conspiring to cut up the globe between the three. They will throw Iran and North Korea a bone of some kind.

Now it is time for me to get outside of my head, because all this really hurts my brain.

I sound like a War-Hawk, but I really am a Peace-Nic(kutu)

Emrys

(8,583 posts)
8. There have been rumours for a while (how much credence to give them, I don't know) that Trump's getting bored of Ukraine
Tue Apr 8, 2025, 10:16 PM
Apr 8

Last edited Wed Apr 9, 2025, 05:53 PM - Edit history (1)

He was obviously stupid to make his claim of resolving it with one phone call/overnight, and even tried to dismiss it not long ago by saying he was being "sarcastic". The reality of the politics involved, very predictably, is a lot more complicated than he or his inexperienced negotiators could have grasped, so he's fallen back on what he knows - everything's a "deal", talk about future deals with the Russians, try to screw Ukraine in a typically Trumpish extortion racket - and the ceasefires etc. are a sideshow and a tedious distraction from his real interests. Meanwhile, he's caused utter chaos at home and elsewhere. No matter how much he seems to be relishing it, it has to be taking some sort of toll.

And as you say, Ukraine isn't Putin's only focus, and nor is it Trump The Peacemaker's.

In some ways, the best thing that could happen at the moment is if Trump and the US just abandoned UKraine and left the European alliance and other willing parties with a clear field to figure out the next steps. The resources the US could supply would be missed, but they're not forthcoming now anyway, and it would be a terminal optimist who imagined signing any agreement with Trump would mean it would be honoured any more than a ceasefire with Putin.

Zelensky's not given me reasons to second-guess his judgement before now, so I hope he continues in that vein in the next few days, but it is a bit nervewracking, hence why I posted this OP. I don't know if the way I framed it confused more people than it's given food for thought, but it's done now - I'd forgotten Trump tried a similar trick with "raw earths" with the Afghani government, then double-crossed it.

Last I heard, from what's been publicly discussed, the Ukrainians have encountered six Chinese citizens in combat for Russia, and have captured two of them. It seems a fair bet they're mercenaries or volunteers, though they likely needed some state permission to join the fray, given how China's run. Certainly key Chinese parts have found they ways into some Russian drones, whether just through normal or black market trade routes or at the Chinese government's behest, there's no way of knowing.

It was indeed sickening when Trump started dabbling and putting his selfish trade interests before those of Ukraine, not least because persistent predictions from various economists and military strategists reckoned that this was going to be the year when Russia's economy finally hit the end stops, and then in gallops Trump like the cavalry with a possible lifeline, though nothing's come of the negotiations with Russia yet.

Ukraine and Russia were capable of negotiating without the Big Orange Buffoon sticking his nose in at an earlier stage in the most recent invasion. Those talks also came to nothing in the end, but they were different times and Ukraine was less strongly armed than it is now.

It feels like now is not the right time to try to resume negotiations anyway, because of the state of things on the ground, and it's Trump's rash bragging and impatience that are pushing the pace, while making next to no headway - Putin's intent on taking more territory no matter how many troops it costs him, Ukraine's drone firepower goes from strength to strength, it's addressed some of its personnel shortages and improved how recruits are trained and deployed, and in partnership with some allies it's producing a fair proportion of its own armamaments and vehicles, and that will increase. The Europeans etc. are coming through with more aid, most of the disagreements among them have concerned how to police any border or buffer zone if hostilities did cease. There's not much appetite for committing troops for a possibly indefinite period in harm's way waiting for Putin to kick off again. A more decisive outcome would obviously be a lot better all round.

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