Hilary Clinton has stated that Biden is to blame for the election of Trump and that his legacy will never recover.

[Pisces]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jun/16/hillary-clinton-joe-biden-2024-election

I know that many on this board love Hilary, maybe her take on this will free some people to admit what most of us know. It is sad and I feel for Joe who has given everything for this country, but I agree with her.

[NJCher]

1. ehhh

can we not get into the blame thing? I don't see what purpose it serves. Nobody ever agrees on it, so can we just please give it up?

[gordianot]

38. Yes and also his slow milk toast Attorney General.

On day one they should have gone after Trump!

[Vogon_Glory]

56. Indeed. Both Biden and his AG should have gone after Individual One

like he was a threat to the rule of law and constitutional law here in the US. To my dismay and to the dismay of millions of patriotic Americans, they didn’t. Instead, they treated the actions of the previous administration as something that could be handled as business-as-usual investigation and prosecution.

I’m still not sure we’re going to have free and fair elections or constitutional government this autumn or afterwards, and for that I partially fault President Joe.

[Ritabert]

2. Sorry. The election of Drumpf is due to Musk.

Last edited Wed Jun 17, 2026, 07:43 AM - Edit history (1)

They both admitted it on different occasions. Sure Biden should have declared he wasn't running after 2 years in office to allow a primary but it wouldn't have mattered.

[raccoon]

4. Thank you!

[Ritabert]

11. We should stop pretending we would have won and blame who did it.

[Callie1979]

103. Wont happen. Or the reasons that contributed to it.

Bring them up you get alerted.

[Celerity]

73. Not after one year in office. The time to announce he was going to follow his pre-election stance & state he would be a

one termer was in early 2023, after we lost control of the US House (and thus were blocked from getting any more major legislation passed).

That would have allowed a full and robust primary process.

If he had announced after only one year he would have been a lame duck for all of 2022 and we would have likely ended up with even more gutting of his agenda in 2021 and 2022. The centrist and conservative Dems in the House and the Senate gutted 84 per cent ($6.1 trillion gutted down to $987 billion in new spend, which badly hurt us in the midterms) of Biden's two superb infrastructure new spend frameworks (the BIF and then the not passed BBB, which became the vastly reduced IRA).

[Chasstev365]

3. Really not helpful, Hillary!

If Bill could have kept in his pants, Al Gore might have won in 2000 and 911 might never have happened.

And for the record, Joe Biden was handed a pile of shit and did a very good job cleaning up Trump's Covid mess.

[Buckeyeblue]

49. Bill's approval was very high in 2000. Gore's mistake was not embracing Clinton's record

[Mme. Defarge]

82. Gore could very well have won the presidency

If the recount had not been stopped.

[Buckeyeblue]

96. It shouldn't have been close. W was idiot

[StarryNite]

109. The Repubs embrace idiots. They always have.

[yellow dahlia]

155. Hear! Hear!

[questionseverything]

193. We know he did win it if votes had been counted because

Newspapers did count the votes after the fact

Florida’s solution was to make it illegal to hand count paper ballots, they only get run through a scanner

[DemocracyForever]

189. GOP controlled SCOTUS was the problem

The ugly truth is that Al Gore got the most votes in Florida as well as nationally. It was the GOP controlled SCOTUS that blocked the counting of 160,000 votes located in the largest and most heavily democratic voting counties in Florida.

[EdmondDantes_]

61. And if she didn't have that stupid email server

Then there's no Comey announcement and she almost certainly becomes president after Obama.

But in the end, there's a thousand different choices that all play into things. If Bill didn't have his affairs and they didn't have Whitewater then maybe they don't have the collective reputation that led the email server stick in a way it didn't for Powell or the rest of the Bush administration.

If Republicans had a decent enough set of values the Access Hollywood tapes or January 6th would have fully ostracized Trump.

We can what if all day long. But it's only helpful if we learn from it. What's the lesson we learn? Be more honest with ourselves about our candidates? Sure, but that alone can't be the answer because Trump's list of flaws would take several lifetimes to list and he won.

[PatSeg]

67. Exactly

And someone as experienced as Hillary should know this by now. Sounds a bit like sour grapes to me.

Lots of blame to go around, but it is important to keep our focus.

[LisaL]

72. Or she could have let Huma go before the disaster with the laptop struck.

No laptop, no Comey announcement. Why is she blaming Biden for losing when she lost to Trump first? And there were things she herself could have done differently that might have resulted in a different outcome?

[samsingh]

77. many people miss that - wiener's involvement cost Hillary the election

though i think going to the rust belt States and feeling their pain may have saved it.

[samsingh]

78. Joe Biden had one main job - in my opinion

to ensure Trump never got re-elected.

[Frasier Balzov]

141. Somebody talked Joe into clinging to the incumbency.

It was argued to him that the incumbency was too valuable to relinquish to vicissitudes.

He became persuaded that sitting tight was in fact the best way to ensure that Trump could not return.

[Chemical Bill]

79. Al Gore did win in 2000, but the supremes took it away.

2000 United States presidential election recount in Florida - Wikipedia https://share.google/XGqdQZkGZ7qMvIyP0

[DemocracyForever]

190. I totally agree with you

Having spent 15 years working on election campaigns in Florida, I can say that Wikipedia leaves out many crucial facts about what really happened in Florida in 2000.

[choie]

5. What is this? Pile on Biden month?

Really disgusting. Biden has served this country in ways Hillary and her husband never have.

[LisaL]

8. And she was the first one to lose to Trump.

So not sure why she thinks she can blame Biden for his election.
If she didn't lose her election, then Trump wouldn't have likely been elected for the second time either.

[Nixie]

55. Plus, she was damaged after her primary, all of which was totally

unnecessary. It’s possible another candidate might have been, as well.

[La Coliniere]

59. She demonstrated her lack of political intuition

Last edited Tue Jun 16, 2026, 10:18 PM - Edit history (1)

on the night orangina stalked her on the stage during that infamous debate. She might have cemented her election that night by turning around and demanding that he go back to his podium by saying “ stop stalking me and get back to your part of the stage!”. I couldn’t believe she let him get away with that; she was totally unable to take advantage of a political moment that was handed to her. There is plenty of blame to go around for the rise of Trumpism, including Hillary’s poorly executed and misguided campaign.

[mr715]

63. It wasn't the debates.

Sec. Clinton did just fine.

Her biggest miscalculation was the one that everyone in the center left had, which was that Trump was electoral poison. So, she campaigned like that. She ended up not winning Texas, Montana, Georgia, etc.

Had we known to take the clown show that is Trump seriously earlier, she would've won the 200k votes she would've needed in PA, WI, and MI.

She did get a lot more votes than Trump... She, like in the primary (2008), struggled to get the votes that count.

[Shrek]

118. +1

At the time there was a lot of smug grandstanding with people on the left openly hoping for Trump to win the nomination. You can find videos online from the likes of John Oliver and Stephen Colbert either begging him to run or utterly discounting any possibility of his candidacy.

In retrospect not the best approach.

[niyad]

89. And had she done so, the reichwing machine would have been howling

about how she couldn't handle the pressure. It was the moderator's job to tell him to knock it off.

[marble falls]

171. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Put the League of Women Voters back in charge of the debates. they did a ...

... great job for decades, until Reaganites got them kicked out,


https://www.lwv.org/blog/leagues-history-sponsoring-presidential-debates

[niyad]

180. YES for LWV!!!

[Melon]

80. Bill did a good job. He balanced the budget.....

[MichMan]

95. Congress passed it first

[Melon]

97. Of course. But it's still excellent andunder Clinton presidency. It's reflected in the rankings by Gallup and others.

[MichMan]

121. Just pointing out that congress plays an equal, if not bigger, role in the budget and deficits than the president does.

People routinely give the president way more blame (or credit) for federal deficits, while ignoring the role of congress, than they deserve. See it all the time, here and elsewhere.

[mr715]

122. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think Al Gore broke the tie

in the Senate that passed Clinton's economic plan.

[DemocracyForever]

187. One of the best economic periods in American history

The actual facts of how well the economy did after the Clinton economic plan speak for themselves.

[questionseverything]

130. He balanced the budget by making welfare nearly impossible to get, leaving more people homeless and starving

[DemocracyForever]

186. This is not accurate

The significant improvement of the economy compared to the Reagan/Bush years which resulted in some of the best job creation numbers in history shows your claim is not accurate. What's skyrocketed the cost of housing is the 2008 economic meltdown courtesy of the SCOTUS appointed W. Builders stopped building new homes back then and they've never caught up. This has resulted in a serious housing shortage which has caused the cost of housing to skyrocket. In addition, W further cut the safety net while giving big tax cuts to the wealthy while at the same time stagging his Iraq disaster. Now we have the orange creature totally destroying the safety net while giving big tax cuts to Musk, big tech bros, etc.

[questionseverything]

191. In my central Illinois county we went from over 500 cases of cash assistance

To just over 50

It played a large part in his balanced budget

[DemocracyForever]

192. The fact s that it was one of the best economic periods in history

with millions of new jobs created. That's what lowered the assistance rate.

[BannonsLiver]

135. Bill was vastly more successful than Biden as POTUS.

So was Obama. I know a few folks around here don’t want to hear it but reality doesn’t care much about your feelings, I’m afraid.

[mr715]

143. Biden did a lot fast that got erased just as quickly.

And slow walked the things urgently needed to ensure his legacy would not be... well... an interregnum

[AZProgressive]

147. The economy was good under Clinton

Last edited Wed Jun 17, 2026, 05:19 PM - Edit history (1)

I remember the 90s being the last great decade because we still had somewhat of a strong middle class which Clinton was able to do welfare reform without hurting too many people because the economy was great.

Under Obama the stock market was great but I think a lot of his austerity played a part in Trump getting elected in 2016 as enacting austerity often doesn't help center-left candidates in elections in the US or Europe.

Biden had better economic policies than Clinton or Obama but Manchin and others didn't let Biden pass most of his agenda he campaigned on in 2020. His foreign policy the last 2 years in office was terrible but the media often criticized him for good decisions like his decision to pull out of Afghanistan.

[mr715]

158. Blame for Afghanistan should go to Trump

Biden was the one that had to implement the draw down.

Hard to imagine Trump would have been better at it, but I do believe Trump wouldn't have received such pervasive and constant negative coverage. It was the "blunder" that cost Biden his popularity.

[AZProgressive]

159. I agree

I actually think it was good decision by Biden to follow through with that decision. I don't like forever wars especially in that part of the world so I think it was a good thing Biden didn't leave that mess in the hands of Presidents after him.

The way the media criticized Biden over that is one of the reasons why I rarely watch the corporate news media these days.

[LisaL]

6. Well, the first time Hillary was the one who lost to Trump.

Using her own logic, isn't she the first one to blame for election of Trump?

[Jack Valentino]

13. Yep.... and maybe if she'd spent a little more time in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan,

(instead of just clobbering us with ads), and found herself an African-American running mate to turn into a new Democratic star in the wake of the first A.A. president with the expected falloff in AA votes--- well, maybe we wouldn't have been here at ALL.

[Ponietz]

43. Bill Clinton was baggage to Hillary in 2016

She should have left him and run on her given name.

[niyad]

88. She won the popular vote by over three million. The electoral college

needs to be abolished, but it won't be.

[SocialDemocrat61]

114. Not while it benefits Republicans

As soon as a Republican wins the popular vote but loses in the electoral college, they will launch a major campaign to abolish it with the help of the corporate media.

[niyad]

116. exactly!!!

[Shrek]

119. But that's a different campaign

There's no way to know what the popular vote would have been if that was the electoral goal.

[niyad]

120. No, it is not. The stupid electoral college is not some disconnected entity

functioniing off somewhere by itself.

[msongs]

7. how many millions of biden voters stayed home on harris? one recalls hearing it was multi millions...

[Callie1979]

104. How many Biden voters voted Trump? Not a small number.

[Mister Ed]

9. My speculation is this:

I think Joe knew damn well that this country's voters were not going to elect a woman to the presidency, and especially not a woman of color. I suspect that he figured he could defeat Trump - after all, he had done it once before - and then at some point in his term, resign and make Harris our first woman president.

It's sheer speculation on my part, but everyone else, including Hilary Clinton, can only speculate.

I sure don't have much patience with Biden-bashers, after he accomplished so much with so little, and in so little time.

[RockCreek]

12. I was going on this assumption when he ran again

To me, a vote for Biden was actually vote for Harris.

[obamanut2012]

14. There was time for a full primary

Until he waited too long to drop.

[sheshe2]

45. +1 for your last paragraph.

Thank you and I agree with your post.

[Lovie777]

10. It seems like a lot of Dems are blaming President Biden...................

We are a big tent with different opinions. One thing I like about the Democratic Party is independent thought coupled with compassion and the will to help others no matter your religion, faith, race, color, sexual preference (as long it not with minors).

Gosh we are human and that's the biggest flawed.

Do I like what Clinton is saying about President Biden, no, but at this point in time, I have more respect for her than Fetterman.

[sop]

15. The 77,303,568 morons who voted for Trump in 2024 are to blame.

The fact that only 75,019,230 voters showed up for Harris is the fault of Democrats.

[sarisataka]

30. Of course you are going commando

your ass is showing

[niyad]

90. Assuming that fleon skum and company did not fuck with the election,

as they bragged that they did.

[QueerDuck]

16. This will hurt more than it helps. (Is that iodized salt, Hillary, or just plain sea salt flakes?)

But... pour away. Let's see if anyone flinches.

[stopdiggin]

20. a surprising, and rather asinine?, statement -

- from a formerly well respected Democratic voice ....

Perhaps Joe is not the only one losing a step or two .. ?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[struggle4progress]

17. Meh. It'll take a number of years before we hear a really clean analysis of the Trump era

The Republican zombie lockstep has been unsurprisingly effective against Democratic circular-firing-squads and backbiting

[Deuxcents]

33. I will agree. We won't really know for years but having said that, I will say Hillary's perspective is usually right

As we have seen many times

[Grim Chieftain]

18. And Hillary was to blame for losing to Trump.

Have some class, Hillary. Not helpful.

[Emile]

179. Exactly

[Turbineguy]

19. And 77 million idiots are off the hook.

[mr715]

21. I, too, agree with Sec. Clinton

[stopdiggin]

22. because after we had a true PRIMARY - the Democrat would have sailed on to easy victory ....

Un-huh. You betcha! Woulda' happened just like that!

Sorry, poster - a fair number of us 'KNOW' no such thing ...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[BannonsLiver]

137. What's the case to be made that having a normal primary process would have been worse than what happened?

I’d love to hear that.

[stopdiggin]

153. it needs to be worse? or is a loss still counted a loss?

And landing us - essentially ...
Enlighten us ..... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[mr715]

157. There are flavors of loss.

There is the landslide.

There is the mixed mandate, split government.

There is the no mandate trifecta.

Trump both times had no mandate, but won all 3 elected bodies.

I think it is important to remember that the House could accomplish nothing under Speaker McCarthy. Hell, it couldn't even elect him after 107 ballots. More difficult than picking a woke pope.

[stopdiggin]

160. true. but saying nothing toward the post that I addressed.

It needs to be demonstrated that we would have suffered worse .. ? (w/ Biden withdrawl ?)
I fail to see the logic. Not least the real argument ....

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[mr715]

163. It is conceivable to me...

that the outcome of 2024 could have been worse. Now, I want to be clear -- it was and is pretty bleak. In a different universe where Kamala Harris really fumbles it, we could've lost more house seats and some senate seats.

I'll freely admit that the outcome of 2024 is about the worst case scenario.

As for suffering worse, it is impossible to prove that so I'm not really attempting to make an argument, just add a perspective.

To recall my point from before, there is what happened in 2024 which was very much an institutional collapse of our party, but that left us with enough hard power in Congress to be somewhat resistant. I am of the opinion that had Biden remained on the ballot in the general, we would have lost by a lot more than VP Harris did, and we wouldn't have those (albeit meager) institutional protections.

I don't have an answer. I think a lot of mistakes were made, and a lot of people are writing books.

Sec. Clinton did the same thing... all part of the coping process for those people with power.

[stopdiggin]

164. I am (marginally) of the opinion that Biden would have probably done as well

(and perhaps even a little better?) than Harris. With the overall outcome being pretty much the same.

Also think the (endless) revisionist history - is rather pointless and futile. Is what it is. And endless masticating on it - doesn't really serve much ...

[mr715]

165. It is what makes history digestible.

You are correct it doesn't serve any real purpose here other than pathos.

However, there are powerful people that need to be thinking about what happened and I hope they understand it in a deeper way than I do. They are paid to figure this stuff out rigorously. That does have value.

If our respective intuitions are correct, all the better for us.

[stopdiggin]

173. in THAT we arrive at complete accord - - - - - - - - - -(nt)-

[MustLoveBeagles]

23. For once I disagree with Hillary

The fact is that Maga voters showed up, the Dems for whatever reason did not. That's not Bidens fault. I don't see what good bringing this up now does. It won't help us with the midterms.

[MichMan]

170. If the voters don't show up to support you, they must not be inspired by what you have to offer.

Not sure what other conclusion could be made.

[MustLoveBeagles]

172. I voted to protect democracy from a tyrant

Not enough we're inspired to do so this giving us the tyrant and one party rule.

[Raine]

25. Hillary lost first to Trump

she should take responsibility for that.

[karynnj]

26. She, of all people, should know better

As the article notes, there were many issues where the Democrats were not seen as winning. It is not possible to know what would have happened if a different path were taken.

She ignores that since before she ran, the polling on whether the country is going in the right direction has been terrible. Could this be an underlying reason for her loss, Trump's loss and Harris's loss?

Imagine like she suggested Biden said he would concentrate on being President, but not run for reelection. The big question then is whether he endorses Harris. On one hand, it would almost be a slap in the face if he didn't, but on the other that might not seem wide open.

Harris herself makes an issue of having a very short time line, but she actually had a few weeks that were incredible as everyone endorsed her. She polled best then. In a regular year, many candidates don't clinch the nomination until June and many start out less defined and well known than Harris.

So, was there some candidate that could enter a primary campaign starting feeling it out when Biden announced which is later than usual, develop their stump speech make themselves known and beat Harris for the nomination?

Then consider that some issues would be very sensitive if the candidate wanted to differentiate themselves from the President. Israel was a problem for us, but not that much for the Republicans. Biden tried publicly to get Netanyahu to stop the destruction, but it was not in Netanyahu 's interest to do do. Many Democrats would have preferred a less pro Israel position, but politically moving in that direction could have lost more votes in the center than were lost on the left.

You could just as easily conjure a future where Biden stays in and, just as Reagan recovered from a poor first debate, Biden did. It is true that when she first was running, Harris polled better than Biden did before the debate. You could blame Biden and his team for not postponing the debate as he was sick. The hit from having the flu or whatever it was couldn't have been worse than the debate.

Note that had Biden have run and won, Harris would now be President.

[DavidDvorkin]

27. The real shame is on the party for turning its back on Biden

And undermining him.

She should have said nothing. This is unacceptable.

[Grim Chieftain]

39. Agreed

And spreading division before the midterms is especially ill advised. Republicans will love this.

[Sneederbunk]

28. Some of us remember 2016.

[BannonsLiver]

139. And some of us remember the mistakes that were made after the 2022 mid terms.

Big mistakes, that were far more recent than 2016. Decisions made that proved to be FUCKIN TERRIBLE. At least Hillary knew when to call it quits.

[tman]

29. I too agree with her, strongly.

but many here still don't want to face up to it.

[Cosmocat]

34. Hill lost to him on her only try ...

Joe beat him the first time.

Simple answer is Joe is no more to blame for this country being stone cold stupid as fck than Hill and Kamala were.

[tman]

41. Ironically, I wanted Biden to run in 2016. Clinton is still correct here though.

2024 was handled in the worse way possible despite the multiple red flags that were evident for all to see.

The best you can say for Biden is that....he was being given terrible advice. And I didn't need Jake Tapper's book to tell me that.

[obamanut2012]

106. Hillary

[Midwestern Democrat]

75. I'll just say this - I have seen presidents who - immediately after they leave office - are beloved by and remain the

most powerful figures in their party - the most sought after speaker, the most coveted endorsement - and this group would include Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama. And then there have been presidents who - in the immediate aftermath of their presidency - their party essentially just wants them to completely fade away and don't want to have to talk about - and this group would include Jimmy Carter, George W. Bush, and Joe Biden. George H.W Bush - who may have been the best president to not be re-elected - was sort of in a neutral category - not loved but not scorned.

[fujiyamasan]

113. Biden's ultimate legacy is being transitional

But not in the way many democrats thought he would be. Instead he was a bridge between the two worst administrations this country has ever seen. That overwhelms his legacy in every way. There’s no getting past it.

Sadly, even if his post presidency approval improves, it’s very unlikely to be within his lifetime. Carter was understandably bitter after losing reelection, but he had decades to do other things. Of course, Biden too has a lifetime of public service and many accomplishments during that time, but for many it all ended on that debate stage.

This is why we’ll see a disconnect between how effective historians might place Biden (at least legislatively) and the general public might (including many democrats).

[karynnj]

128. Time will see if his accomplishments all ended with Trump

Not to mention, you could say that Obama's legacy was destroyed by Trump as well. Trump pulled us out of the JCPOA and the Paris climate accord, his two biggest foreign policy achievements. He also crippled ACA in his first term, through things like Rubio's elimination of the fund that covered catastrophic costs. The elimination of it meant the rates charged by all companies rose as they had more liability.

The various infrastructure projects funded by his bill are still happening - even if Trump takes credit. Biden's years also kept ACA alive, which wouldn't be the case had Trump immediately won. It also gave 4 more years for clean energy to get stronger.

[karynnj]

125. Not sure where I would place Bill Clinton

On the one hand, he was welcomed as an influential speaker in all later conventions. However, he was given a share of the blame for Gore's loss. After all, a man who had drinking problems until he was 40 could not have run on " bringing decency back to the White House". especially against Al Gore, who had a boy scout like image if it were not for Bill.

I wonder if Joe Biden will have his image improve as time passes just as Jimmy Carter's did. Of course, Biden will not have the long post presidency that Carter had, but by Carter's death he was seen as a very decent person and the view of his presidency improved.

I also think Reagan's presidency has had changing scores over time.

[PatSeg]

31. Whoa, now THAT is so disappointing

Not to mention, there we go again, blaming Democrats for what republicans and MAGA do.

Hey thanks Hillary for doing republicans' work for them.

[Cosmocat]

32. Not for nothing, I like Hill, but

She lost to DT, Joe beat him the first go round.

Joe is no more responsible for this country being stupid as fck as Hill or Kamala are.

[delisen]

35. I think Clinton's actual statement was a reasonable assessment

She was not piling on but gave her analysis about his backing off his own promise to not run for a second term. This created a division within the Democratic Party

People all over the world want to and need to know how we in the US have failed to maintain our democracy.

We are in the midst of digging ourselves out of an enormous hole . Other countries are under similar pressure. We have made some mistakes in getting here. I would rather discuss and avoid the pitfalls in the future.

Biden himself pointed out that he did not do enough to promote his accomplishments. I thought this was true. His administration was incredibly productive but it needed to be explained over and over to get the message out.

[Mysterian]

71. Biden never promised to not run for a second term

Stop spreading lies.

[fujiyamasan]

107. It was mostly implied that he would be Transitional

Even if he didn’t explicitly say it.

That’s how the electorate saw it, especially democrats.

[Mysterian]

110. So you speak for the whole electorate now?

How interesting. And "implied" is a lot different from "promised," isn't it?

[TheProle]

36. "I'm all in!"

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton joins Morning Joe to discuss criticisms of President Biden's age and why she is for Biden running for re-election in 2024.

[BlueTsunami2018]

37. Didn't she lose to him first?

I mean, let’s face it, she was beaten by the worst candidate to ever run.

[MichMan]

51. She did, but it was a completely different scenario

Only once in the last 75 years (1988) has the same party won three presidential elections in a row. Voters have shown time and time again that they are ready for a change every 8 years.

[LisaL]

65. You can come up with all kind of reasons, but she still lost.

NT

[Botany]

40. I smell deliberate misinformation behind this story designed to weaken and splinter the Democrats.

Hillary is way too smart to sell this “codswallop.”

[Sympthsical]

42. . . .

[Matthew28]

44. Biden should have

Stepped down in the fall of 2003 and gave it to Harris. Could have endorsed her and let her run in an open primary against 4-5 other democrats.

If she won she would have had the mandate of the base to run against Trump.

[ProfessorGAC]

48. I Think You Meant 2023, Right?

You have "2003". 43 was still the president then.

[kacekwl]

46. Not at all interested in

Biden bashing. Put it in your next book.

[chowder66]

47. He may have been one part of the reason but he wasn't the sole reason. The media didn't help one bit.

The article goes on to explain that we were in disarray, basically and up against the Republican owned media and machine.

Any other democratic candidate may not still have won.

People were voting for a daddy dictator and I don't know who could have overcome that psychological clusterfuck, especially when the media was neck-deep in fucking this country over.

[tavernier]

50. Not joining this circular firing squad.

Have we run out of Republicans to go after??

Not your best moment, DU.

[sarisataka]

52. After the convention the election was ours to lose

we lost and there is plenty of blame to go around.

[Midwestern Democrat]

93. People like David Axelrod were warning that Kamala had simply gotten something like the kind of temporary, unearned

popularity that a Vice President receives upon taking over after the death of a president - that was never going to last all the way to November.

[Cirsium]

53. What she actually said

“He made a terrible mistake. He made a terrible mistake for himself, his legacy, and for the country. He had said that he would not run again, and you know, counterfactual narratives are always a bit tricky, but I believe if he had kept to that plan and said in, say, the late summer of ‘23 that he wasn’t going to run, that he was going to pass, you know, the torch to the next generation, we would have had a real contest.”

“And, very sadly, I believe whoever emerged from that contest, whether it was the vice president or a governor or a senator or anybody else, would have beaten Donald Trump. So, I think it was a terrible miscalculation on the part of President Biden.”

[nilram]

154. Thanks. Lies get halfway around the world before truth has a chance to get its pants on

[Buckeyeblue]

54. Here is the thing: had Joe decided to not run the debate between him and Trump would have never happened

Biden could have been a real attack dog for whoever won the nomination. Instead, Biden lost a lot of his mojo after the debate. He wasn't the same. He was depressed and sullen and it showed. He couldn't help the vice president.

It was sad to watch.

[mr715]

58. Or, alternatively, he could aggressively prosecute Trump

and use his institutionalist cred since he was only running for 1 term. Very much a punt to Republicans - get your act together and run someone reasonable in 2024. But they didn't, so he did, so we don't.

[Buckeyeblue]

68. Agreed. That too. He could have done both.

Biden's DOJ should have been much more aggressive with prosecuting Trump. I don't think anyone can debate that.

[RockRaven]

57. She's not wrong in that. And she is also one of the last people who should be opening their mouth on the subject,

unless she really wants to go all the way down that road... to her front door too.

[Quiet Em]

60. I just watched the entire interview and this writer's take doesn't quite add up to what she exactly said

and she ends her take by saying people need to stop beating this dead horse.

Her remarks to questions on this start around the 42 minute mark

[MorbidButterflyTat]

62. Hillary did NOT say

"...his legacy will never recover."

I don't trust any article that quotes bits and pieces out of context OR disingenuous OPs.

UnRec a thousand times.

[Quiet Em]

64. This writer's take was bullshit.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

140. What really sucks is how many people just take for granted that this bullshit is accurate

and proceed to crap all over Hillary.

And the hit and run OP is in the wind.

Mission accomplished, I guess.

[Cirsium]

124. Agreed

The Guardian is usually better.

[Nixie]

174. Agreed. Luckily I only had time to skim it, but it didn't add up

right away. Out of context garbage. Thanks for confirming.

[delisen]

66. Guardian article is Sound Bite journalism. Clickbait.

If you are shocked about the Biden comment, you should listen to hrt comments on Trump, Netanyahu, Iran, Clarence Thomas and more.

She is around Trump’s age but she is razor sharp.and is saying what she thinks.Remember she was s Senator for a term, then a very hardworking Secy of State under Obama.

The interview is on You Tube and the event was on on June 15, 2026 at 97NY with David Remnick.

It is long and whether you agree with her or not, she has a very sharp political mind

[videohead5]

69. No, I will tell you who is to blame

Last edited Tue Jun 16, 2026, 11:45 PM - Edit history (1)

The dipshits that voted for Trump. We must have a bunch of stupid people that are easy to con. Not only did Trump con them once he conned them twice. They knew that he lies and was a corrupt felon, but they did not care. I told a family member that if Charles Manson had run for president, he would've had a good chance. As long as he told them lies that they wanted to hear.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

70. .

[BootinUp]

74. This is probably like regurgitated pudding. nt

[gab13by13]

76. I support Democrats (Joe) even if Hillary doesn't.

I also support Hillary.

[Diseases]

85. I've heard that pattern before

Doublethink is the mental capacity to simultaneously hold two contradictory beliefs in one's mind and accept both of them as true. Coined by George Orwell in his dystopian novel 1984, it requires individuals to deliberately construct lies while genuinely believing them, thereby altering their own perception of reality.

[Diseases]

86. If I get banned for this...

Think about what I said and that user being that way.

[niyad]

91. What flavour pizza do you like?

[Diseases]

92. Double double

Pizza pizza, political democrat 1984 orwell orwell. Always have to keep fighting that doublethought process, has to be terrible.

[Torchlight]

101. Sounds serious

Good luck

[Abolishinist]

142. An Orwellian pizza designed by the Ministry of Plenty

to look big, taste plain, and make you think you are eating a feast.

Here are the ingredients for the George Orwell Pizza:

The Crust (The Proles): A thick, heavy crust made from cheap, grey ration-card flour. It represents the working masses who do all the hard work but get no flavor.

The Sauce (Victory Gin): A thin layer of watery tomato sauce mixed with a splash of bitter Victory Gin to make your eyes water.

The Cheese (The Illusion of Choice): Synthetic, fake cheese that looks like mozzarella but tastes like nothing. The menu says it is "100% Real," and you must believe it.

The Toppings (The Big Three):

• Victory Cabbage: Shaved, bitter cabbage that has been boiled for too long.
• Saccharine Tablets: Fake sugar drops to simulate sweetness, because real honey or sugar is forbidden.
• Soy-Protein "Victory Bacon": A meat substitute that tastes like cardboard but is officially declared "the best meat in the world."👁️

The Design
The pizza is cut into four slices, but the menu says it has five slices. If Big Brother tells you there are five slices, you must eat four and believe you are full. In the exact center sits a giant, unblinking egg yolk cooked to look like an eye. It stares at you while you eat, reminding you that Big Brother is watching your diet.

Several notes. (1) This was AI generated (2) I am not taking a side on the post in 'dispute', merely curious about what AI could come up with.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

123. Welcome to DU

[Melon]

81. It was perception of her frailties just like Biden. She was basically getting carried on stairs by secret service.

Remember the clip of the secret service carrying her down some stairs, feet dragging, getting stuffed ina van. We try and elect candidates past their expiration date.

[CNYHarris]

83. Does she mean this election too

trump has a history of projection. Meaning if trump is accusing democrats of doing it, it means trump does it.

Computer scientists say they have strong evidence election was rigged against Clinton in three key states

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/wisconsin-michigan-pennsylvania-election-hillary-clinton-hacked-manipulated-donald-trump-swing-states-scientists-lawyers-a7433091.html

The US needs hand counting on election night of paper ballots as they do in G7 nations and Five Eyes Nations. Despite the US and a few other major nations that don't hand count, hand counting is the sure way to protect democracy.

[CNYHarris]

84. Joe Biden was not responsible except not exposing trump

and epstein. Biden sat on the Epstein files. Sat on the bitcoin files. Garland sat on Garland's hands.

[Unrepentant Fenian]

87. I don't care, that was rude as hell for her to say!

[FormerOstrich]

94. sigh....

If we, meaning all my crowd, was just a little more perfect then we wouldn't lose to all these extremely flawed people.

Maybe we should publicly criticize those not as perfect because how else will we achieve perfection and not lose to these extremely flawed people. Let's take it to a level much greater than constructive criticism and introspection.....and for sure let's not redirect our energy until we beat the horse to death.

[Melon]

98. At the end of the day, Americans didn't rate Biden as an affective president

That’s it. He’s an easy target. His legacy will be easily questioned.
Gallup president ranking attached.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/654878/americans-think-history-rate-biden-presidency-negatively.aspx

[fujiyamasan]

108. It will be interesting to see how this changes over time

Especially in contrast to everything that has happened under Trump. That poll you linked was at Trump’s peak approval ratings. He was still basking in his inaugural honeymoon which really didn’t last long.

The problem for Biden though is he’s ultimately sandwiched between two terms of Trump and that will unfortunately define his legacy more than anything else. Even many democrats cannot forgive him for that.

[Melon]

111. I agree that trump will move lower.

I just don’t see Biden moving higher outside of that. Especially with those who were around him continuing to attack his performance.

[fujiyamasan]

115. Sadly, even if his post presidency approval improves, it's very unlikely to be within his lifetime.

Carter was understandably bitter after losing reelection, but he had decades to do other things. Of course, Biden too has a lifetime of public service and many accomplishments during that time, but for many it all ended on that debate stage.

This is why we’ll see a disconnect between how effective historians might place Biden (at least legislatively or how he handled foreign affairs like the Russian invasion of Ukraine) and the general public might (including many democrats).

I don’t think a lot of the general public looks back at presidents with an eye on specific legislation or policies. They look at how they “felt” at and how they viewed the president at the time.

[LtTx]

132. I think you mean effective.

Affective deals with moods, emotions. Effective means successful.

[mr715]

144. Trump is an affective president.

[LtTx]

148. Yes- He absolutely is!

[mr715]

150. He's why I need pills.

[fujiyamasan]

99. Kinda stating the obvious at this point

Last edited Wed Jun 17, 2026, 09:29 AM - Edit history (1)

She is of course welcome to state her opinion on this, and I agree with it. I also agree with criticism of her own campaign.

The problem for Biden though is he’s ultimately sandwiched between two terms of Trump and that will unfortunately define his legacy more than anything else.

Even many democrats cannot forgive him for that.

[Torchlight]

100. It's a non-issue to me at this point in the game

and Sec. Clinton as well as Pres. Biden have opinions, are asked about them, and respond to them. I'm the last person to dismiss an entire swath due to a particular and benign opinion held.

Midterms and 2028 are where it's at.

[raccoon]

102. I wonder if she has been tested for cognitive abilities recently

[Easterncedar]

105. It is corporate ownership of the media

They control the narrative. Reagan was qualified? FFS

[SocialDemocrat61]

112. Hillary Clinton is entitled to her opinion

I don't agree with it. But since she is better informed that I am, I won't dismiss it completely.

[Clouds Passing]

117. N.O.

[TxGuitar]

126. Her 'generation' of Dems are why we are where we are

Not contesting the 2000 election, dragging the party to the right...She's not wrong on Biden (to my mind) but there's a lot of blame to go around on why we are where we are. I hope the leadership learns from their mistakes in the next few elections but we do have a history of snagging defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Walleye]

127. Coulda woulda shoulda! Magical thinking, trying to change the path

[mr715]

152. The Onion...

https://theonion.com/cloaked-hillary-clinton-beckons-harris-to-follow-her-into-woods/

[OC375]

129. Not productive. Not at this point...

She fucked up plenty as well. It happens. It was a group effort. Move on.

Resentments help no one, and make us look ugly.

[Martin Eden]

131. Among the factors Dems could control, I agree that Joe's decision to run for a 2nd term is the biggest reason we lost

I also agree there is no point in rehashing this now, unless we can learn something from it to help us win moving forward.

[mr715]

145. She's rehashing because Jill Biden is selling a book...

[OnionPatch]

133. I agree with her

He said he wouldn’t run again. He should have stuck to his word.

[mr715]

146. Especially when part of your appeal is humility and honesty

[BannonsLiver]

134. It's hard to disagree.

He made a terrible mistake. Some people here saw it at the time and were shouted down. In the end, they were right. I’m glad she said what she said. There are a lot of folks around here who need to hear it.

[ABC123Easy]

136. My response to HRC would be

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[markpkessinger]

138. I saw the NY Times piece about this, and found myself very disappointed with Hillary . . .

In the Times article, while she seems to be quite confident in assessment about what Biden did wrong, and why Kamala lost, she fails to show the same insight regarding her own loss in 2016.

She mostly blames factors that were beyond her control: Russian interference, Comey's decision to announce an investigation of her so close to the election, etc. She acknowledges "mistakes," but mentions only one: her decision to use personal email.

Seriously, if that's the only mistake she thinks her campaign made, then she's as clueless today as she was in 2016. The things she cited certainly played a role. But look, populist sentiment was running very high in 2016. Trump took fool advantage of that by barnstorming across the country with one huge rally after another. Meanwhile, Hillary chose to spend most of her campaign operating within her comfort zone -- i.e., confining most of her appearances to small groups of well-heeled donors. That decision only served to reinforce the claims that she was "elitist."

I believe she also made a huge blunder with regard to the speeches to Wall Street banks. When Bernie mentioned it during the primary, that would have been an opportunity to either explain herself, or at least own up to what she said and get the political hit behind her. But instead she stonewalled, which left her wide open for the Wikileaks drop that hit just a few weeks before the election.

These were entirely unforced errors.

[Initech]

149. The media sabotaged the election.

When it became apparent that Trump was going to get off scot-free for January 6th, the media began forcing him on us whether we wanted it or not, and I swear that debate was rigged.

[mr715]

151. I really though Harris ran a hell of a campaign.

Until she started trotting out Liz Cheney at the end.

The media was completely dismissive of January 6th and scared of Trump, but I don't think they were excessively critical of Harris.

[MichMan]

168. Easy to say in hindsight, but looking back there were too many unforced errors

Lots of momentum after the convention, as it was the general consensus after the debate that Biden wasn't likely to win, so Harris was a jolt of energy for the base, because there was now new hope.

Harris didn't give interviews to the press until a few weeks into the campaign, even though the timeline was short to begin with. In spite of her having an impressive resume as a VP and Senator, her ads went back three jobs ago and mainly focused on her being a successful prosecutor. Lots of missed opportunities to remind the voters the breadth of her qualifications.

They had a pretty substantial amount of money, with $1.5 billion, but IMO didn't spend it very effectively. Too many high paid consultants on the payroll, and a reliance on big glitzy rallies with paid celebrities. Trump got more PR from the McDonalds and garbage truck stunts, that were essentially free, then Harris did from any of her big rallies with Beyonce or Springsteen.

Finally, who would have expected that a softball question, on the View, no less !, would result in her saying there was nothing she would do different than Joe Biden. Knowing that his favorability wasn't polling very high, as his VP, her campaign had to know that question was going to be asked, and should have prepared her with an acceptable answer. Total failure there with her campaign staff IMO

[mr715]

169. WIth the benefit of hindsight, I agree entirely.

I was a little swept up and assumed the celebrities weren't being paid.

There was a lot of money wasted and a lot of media underperformance.

But while I was experiencing it, it felt well put together.

[ColoringFool]

156. Hello, Hillary? How Do You Account For TRUMP'S FIRST TERM?? 🤔🧐......

Gotta know when to fold'em....

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

162. And what's your excuse for 2016 Hillary?

[B.See]

166. VOTERS are to blame. For one,

NOT sticking by Biden - regardless.

That lying orange mf sleeps thru meetings, even his own staged debacles, yet it's Biden who's supposed to be "sleepy."

And can you imagine the s-storm it would've been if Biden, especially Obama, had marched ufc brawlers thru the WH, with full military honours? Being even SALUTED by services members?Wtf????

Not to mention Rump's economy. Whatever happened to 'it's the economy, stupid'? But no...

Innumerable Trump atrocities and outrages, while we balk over the kind of s--- THEY double down on.

Ridiculous.

[marble falls]

167. First time I can remember, I think Hillery is wrong. Either way that bell has been rung and we need to be moving on ...

... we have the reality of right now to deal with.

[Ohio Joe]

175. Oh good... Yet another let's blame Dems thread

[duckworth969]

177. Nobody should care what Hills thinks about Biden

Pointless, counterproductive and attention getting talk, that’s all it is.

Biden is a real patriot!

[mr715]

185. So is Hillary Clinton

[Emile]

178. It's Bash Democrats time. This time coming from Hillary.

[Grim Chieftain]

183. Exactly. What does she hope to accomplish bringing this up now?

We have extremely important midterms coming up in a few months, and she's spouting this crap now?

Hillary lost when she ran for president, and she didn't have age or supposed cognitive decline to blame. Back our candidates who are running now, Hillary. If you have nothing positive to say, shut the hell up.

BTW - Hillary had a huge problem with "likability" when she ran, so there's that.

[Buckeyeblue]

181. I wonder how awkward this made yesterday's gathering of the ex-presidents?

I'm sure outwardly it was all smiles but you have to wonder if there wasn't some tension.

[ecstatic]

182. she's absolutely correct

Not only did he insist on running despite his prior promise and the optics of his aging, but he dropped the ball on 3 massive fronts.

First and foremost, his doj failed to hold a traitor/ terrorist accountable in a timely manner.

As great of a job that he did with steering us out of covid and getting the economy on track, he didn't protect us from the biggest threat we were facing.

Also, and this is just my opinion, he didn't protect women when the "supreme court" went rogue and took away our rights. What would Abraham Lincoln have done in that situation?

Then, there's the issue that provided enough cover for the GOP to "win" the 2024 election: Gaza. Unfortunately, Biden mishandled the situation, and because of our failure to rein bibi in at that time, he's completely out of control now--I'm just now hearing that bibi literally blew up the peace deal last night.

The bottom line is that we have to be clear-eyed about what happened, otherwise it just leaves a lot of tension and bitterness in our party. The world would not be experiencing the nightmare that we're going through right now had he held tRump and bibi accountable when it mattered.

And unfortunately, I believe there's much more hell to come with the continuation of the illegally started war and more trumpandemics coming. It looks like this year might be worse than 2020.

[JustKay]

184. I think she has a point, but -

Trump earned a second term because of misogyny. Had the Democratic Party nominated a man, Trump would never have gotten a second term.

Do I like that or agree? Not at all, I'm a woman who's been struggling for equality for decades now. But sadly, I feel it's the truth.

IMHO

[DemocracyForever]

188. Bush/Florida 2000 created Trump

Bush tanked the economy that resulted in the 2008 economic meltdown that left so many non-college educated white men feeling left out and Bush created the Presidential election theft roadmap in Florida with the help of brother Jeb and the GOP controlled SCOTUS.