Would you move to Europe now (Putin)?

[not fooled]

Would concerns about the possibility of a European land war expanding beyond Ukraine keep you from leaving the U.S. and moving to a European country, e.g. France?

I planned to move to France a year ago but moved to another house in the U.S. instead. Now I'm regretting not getting out but the possibility of war spreading in Europe seems greater now. My understanding is that within a couple of years the extent of Russian aggression and capacity for invasion should become apparent. So, I could stay put (uggh), move now (early 2025), or wait a couple of years to see how things play out.

What do you think? Are worries overblown that I might be moving into a near-term possible war zone?

[NoRethugFriends]

1. The answer is obvious!

Nobody knows. You can't predict insanity. In this country or elsewhere

[elleng]

4. Right.

[walkingman]

2. Let's see France vs Texas - not a hard choice (if I could) ☮

[True Dough]

3. I don't understand how Putin (or his successor)

can believe Russia stands a chance in a war against Europe. It is taking practically everything the Russians have to gain small increments in Ukraine, which has a huge disadvantage in the number of combat troops and supply of munitions.

It would be insanity (something Russian leaders could be accused of) to think they would have any success against NATO.

[Lonestarblue]

5. I would move now if I could. The US is not particularly safe, nor is likely to change much.

It will only get worse if Trump wins. I do not believe that Putin us likely to attack European countries because he doesn’t want a war with multiple NATO countries. If Trump wins, he will pull the US out of NATO to aid Putin, but member countries have beefed up their defenses somewhat and together they would be a lot for Putin to tackle.

Do you have someplace in France in mind? My personal favorite is the Bordeaux area.

[not fooled]

10. Normandy, Pays de la Loire, or Brittany

The more horse-friendly regions. But, I'm open to other areas, except the hotter, drier south.

[Laurelin]

6. Already moved to Europe

I worry about war here. I'm not leaving, but if Putin makes it to Germany I'll give up my long- held pacifistl beliefs and fight. Technically I guess I already gave up pacifism; I came to the conclusion that some people really need to be stopped. I'm not going to Ukraine because I'd be worthless in any kind of fight and would just get in the way.

[Jim__]

7. The Russian invasion of Ukraine pretty much exposed the weakness of the Russian military.

Seems like that invasion was about the stupidest move Putin could have made.

[greatauntoftriplets]

8. In a minute.

It would be Western Europe because that's where I have family who would welcome me. I'm sadly unable to do it for a variety of reasons (including money), but that doesn't mean the will isn't there.

[Srkdqltr]

9. No

Maybe for fun and excitement when I was younger.

But you all go. I'm sure things are better In Europe.
Don't let the door hit your backside as you leave.

[58Sunliner]

11. Do you speak the language and have you been there before?

I am contemplating that very same move, also the same areas. I used to live in Paris and it's easy to be anonymous in a big city. I think I would like to be near a larger city, just not sure which one. I struggle with feeling like I'm abandoning the US but I'm going to follow my heart if I can arrange it.

[not fooled]

12. Visited, yes. French speaker, no.

Visited briefly a long time ago and have worked in the U.S. with many people from France. Studying French online; definitely not fluent but every little bit helps, and the northern regions I'm interested in have a fair number of British expats and hence more English spoken. Going over in the fall, after the Olympics and tourist season are over, to visit areas I might want to move to and to meet real estate agents.

[58Sunliner]

13. Great. If you feel up to it, let me know what you find for a real estate agent.

I've looked at sites online, but don't know how the finances for upkeep are applied if you buy a house with shared walls. Possible issues and liability has scared me from considering anything but a stand alone house.

[DFW]

14. Even the guy who runs one of my Paris offices is getting out of Paris

During the Olympics, that is. Demonstrations by everyone, carte blanche for thieves, organized and free lance, and violence from every “cause,” both real and imagined.

He says, “non, merci!” and is heading for his parents’ place near Cannes with his wife and daughter.

[DFW]

15. No bigger Russian threat now than the socialist era

Russia can’t feed a half billion people, and if he is to conquer western Europe by force, he’ll be Tsar of a wasteland by the time he makes it to the coast of La Rochelle, Bristol and Lisbon. Besides, France and England have their own nukes.

He’ll try to interfere in their elections like he does with ours, but I don’t see a land invasion.

That said, be REALLY sure you know what you’re getting into if you move here. The slow bureaucracy and the paperwork are crushing, and just don’t even contemplate it if you don’t speak the language of where you’re going. Consider how easy life would be in Dallas, Boston or Chicago if the ONLY language you know is French or German. Bring $5 million with you, and sure, the USA will be quick to grant you a green card, but what’s your quality of life if you can’t communicate with anyone?

It can be done, but there’s more involved than packing up and buying a one way ticket. And do NOT give up your US nationality. If things DO get hairy here, the USA can’t deny you entry if ever you want to come back, even for visits.

[Laurelin]

16. I'm not sure you need to speak the language before you go

I didn't speak Dutch before i moved here. Granted we moved for husband's job so we had relocation help. I know nothing about France, but there are many expat groups in the Netherlands so i had an instant social life, and language classes are easy to find.

I'm not saying it's easy just that it's doable, with a lot of work.

[DFW]

17. With a lot of work--exactly

And in a country like NL, there will be plenty of expat groups because foreigners are so often reluctant to learn the language. When it was clear that we were going to open an office in NL, I asked our first guy there to speak to me slowly in Dutch until I could grasp his meaning. Since he was from the far north, his native language wasn’t standard Dutch, so he spoke it clearly and distinctly, which helped me greatly. Now, I don’t speak anything BUT Dutch when I’m there, and the only foreigners I see regularly are our accountant, who is from Peru (she married a Dutch guy, speaks fluent NL) and a trainee from Romania who has to speak English to everyone, as he hasn’t learned any NL at all. I’m accepted by everyone as a sort-of foreigner, but “almost” one of them.

[Laurelin]

18. My expat friends aren't reluctant to learn the language

Most of us put a lot of effort into it. A number of people I know in the international expat group are Dutch people who have lived abroad; a number in the American expat group are married to Dutch people. Everyone I know is taking Dutch classes.

I didn't say it was easy to move abroad if you don't speak the local language, just that it's possible if you're willing to work hard. I do think it's probably harder to move to France than to the Netherlands. I hear French people don't want to speak English. I have real trouble getting people to speak Dutch with me because they're all so fluent in English; they hear my accent and switch immediately to English. My husband has a German accent when he speaks Dutch so everyone speaks Dutch with him. It's frustrating.

[DFW]

19. It's not that the French don't want to learn English

Their TV and film industry, like in Spain and Germany, dubs all American and British films and TV shows into the local language. Smaller countries, such as Belgium, the Scandinavian countries and NL, show the films and series in the original, and so the whole population is used to hearing English from their media from childhood on. People in the larger European countries don’t get that kind of constant exposure.

I’m in a different country every day for my work, so I am under constant time pressure to get stuff done quickly and efficiently. Having to request English would slow me down to the point where I would need a twelve day week to do my job. Since at least 75% of my work is in Germany, France, Spain, Netherlands, Switzerland and Belgium, NOT knowing French, Catalan, Spanish, Dutch, German and Schwyzerdütsch, besides making me an idiot, would require more work hours in a week that a week has to offer.

[Laurelin]

20. I really admire your language skills.

Wish I shared them.

[DFW]

21. If you had my job and lived where I do, I'm sure you WOULD share them

Don't forget, I'm in a different country almost every day when I'm working, and I mostly work with Europeans. I'd have to be some kind of idiot--and a selfish idiot at that--if I were to show up in some country between two and four times a month, and not learn the languages of people with whom I have been working for decades.

When we opened our office in the Netherlands in 1990, we had only one guy there, and he understood English quite well. However, every time I met him in his own country, he spoke Dutch with everyone BUT me. I felt like an outsider, and a nuisance outsider at that. I wasn't a tourist, but someone who was there on a regular basis. I said, this can't be impossible to learn. I asked him to speak to me in Dutch slowly, explaining to me as we went along, so I could get used to it. He was a native of the Netherlands, but his native language was not Dutch, but Dréents, a language spoken in the far north of the Netherlands. He therefore spoke standard Dutch with the clear pronunciation of a person fluent, but speaking a second language. I learned quickly.

When necessity and convenience coincide, it gets a lot easier, because motivation and instant gratification go side by side.