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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(115,966 posts)
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 12:55 PM Nov 24

There's a reason so many Americans trust RFK Jr. and Dr. Oz

Neither Robert F. Kennedy Jr., President-elect Donald Trump’s pick to lead the Department of Health and Human Services, nor Dr. Mehmet Oz, his pick to lead the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, is a stranger to scandal. But it’s their connection to “wellness” ideology, which includes the belief that health is holistic and that individuals are the most qualified experts on their own experience — that should command our attention.

Kennedy and Oz are dangerous choices to lead major federal agencies because they amplify the worst aspects of that sprawling wellness culture: conspiracy theories, cheap hucksterism and an anti-institutionalism that undermines the very agencies they’ve been slated to run. But we must separate our justified outrage at Trump choosing them from two key truths: The health issues they discuss pose legitimate problems for many Americans — that’s how each became so popular — and the wellness movement in which they participate has positively contributed to our understanding of health and well-being in the United States.

Kennedy made his name as an environmentalist legal crusader, but his passion for protecting all that is “natural” has led him to make arguments far outside accepted scientific opinion, most infamously in his championing the discredited theory that vaccines cause autism, but also that contaminated water can make people transgender, that 5G cell towers “control our behavior” and that raw milk is safe for consumption.

Oz, trained as a cardiothoracic surgeon, was affiliated with Columbia University (until it cut ties with him in 2022) but rose to celebrity as the host of “The Dr. Oz Show” (a spinoff of “The Oprah Winfrey Show”), where he offered mainstream diet, nutrition and sexual health tips interspersed with recommendations for unverified cures and supplements. It was those recommendations that landed him in a Senate hearing, where he admitted much of his advice doesn’t “have the scientific muster to present as fact.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/opinion-rfk-jr-dr-oz-115959705.html

Not sure how many people trust these two. They're both a little bizarre to me.

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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There's a reason so many Americans trust RFK Jr. and Dr. Oz (Original Post) Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 24 OP
Both are Snake Oil Peddlers MrWowWow Nov 24 #1
that's wholistic, as in the whole body WhiteTara Nov 24 #2
dictionary.com dpibel Nov 24 #21
thanks WhiteTara Nov 24 #24
No they do not trust the wackos..... Lovie777 Nov 24 #3
Who is "they"? ShazzieB Nov 24 #28
Quackery spewed by quacks. Not a good thing in government. n/t valleyrogue Nov 24 #4
Until we understand why clowns like this have so much influence... nycbos Nov 24 #5
Because they're stupid? rsdsharp Nov 24 #6
Yes! Starlight27 Nov 24 #10
+1000. Paladin Nov 24 #25
We have become a celebrity driven culture. They are the royalty that we all bow down to. Biophilic Nov 24 #7
"....individuals are the most qualified experts on their own experience..." paleotn Nov 24 #8
It's the conman's technique-- pull the marks in with one thing that makes sense, in this case LymphocyteLover Nov 24 #9
Trust? Those two...never PortTack Nov 24 #11
If you trust those two, you are stupid. alarimer Nov 24 #12
There's a reason so many Americans trust RFK Jr. and Dr. Oz.........BECAUSE? usaf-vet Nov 24 #13
They make artificial but persuaive arguments. Klarkashton Nov 24 #14
Full of what Stephen Colbert calls "truthiness." Beartracks Nov 24 #16
Kennedy was never "an environmental crusader." His environmental views were as stupid as his quack medical views. n/t NNadir Nov 24 #15
He was a headliner for NRDC for many years. bucolic_frolic Nov 24 #19
My opinion is that he, and perhaps the NRDC in general, was clueless about the environment. NNadir Nov 24 #20
"A nuke in every garage" dpibel Nov 24 #23
I don't trust anything/anyone Oprah-related and RFK, Jr. is certifiable. LoisB Nov 24 #17
I'm skeptical of medicine. Second opinions are warranted almost half the time. bucolic_frolic Nov 24 #18
We can have both. Mblaze Nov 24 #22
They tell people what some want to hear. WestMichRad Nov 24 #26
"Because they're stupid?" J_William_Ryan Nov 24 #27
The same reason they think Trump is a great businessman CanonRay Nov 24 #29
Religion. Abolishinist Nov 25 #30

dpibel

(3,393 posts)
21. dictionary.com
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 03:32 PM
Nov 24
holistic

[ hoh-lis-tik ]
Phonetic (Standard)
IPA
adjective

incorporating the concept of holism, or the idea that the whole is more than merely the sum of its parts, in theory or practice:

holistic psychology.
Medicine/Medical. of or relating to a form of medicine, such as chiropractic or naturopathy, concerned with the care of the entire person in all aspects of well-being, including the physical, psychological, and social, rather than with diseases and symptoms in isolation, and often using natural or traditional remedies: Her holistic practitioner prescribed dietary changes and some relaxation exercises to reduce the frequency of her migraines.


In your defense, "wholistic" has a separate entry in which it is defined as a variant of the standard "holistic."

ShazzieB

(18,850 posts)
28. Who is "they"?
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 05:40 PM
Nov 24

I'm curious about who you are referring to. Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin referred to "many Americans" believing them, and you replied "No they do not trust the wackos." Who is "they"?

I shudder to think of either of those guys being appointed to the positions TSF has nominated them to, but I can easily believe there are "many Americans" who do trust them. Dr. Oz's show being a big hit is a case in point, and RFK Jr has his own following as well. If quite a few people didn't trust them, they wouldn't be nearly so dangerous.

nycbos

(6,381 posts)
5. Until we understand why clowns like this have so much influence...
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 01:15 PM
Nov 24

… we won’t be able to develop effective strategy on how to push back.

In the case of Dr. Oz, we underestimate the power of TV. We made the same mistake with Trump. People associate a TV show with credibility.


Biophilic

(4,902 posts)
7. We have become a celebrity driven culture. They are the royalty that we all bow down to.
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 02:05 PM
Nov 24

It makes as much sense as the royalty and nobility status used to make. What is in our make up that we think we need people to look up with or at least be above us? I don't watch TV and I don't follow any so called influencers and yet I notice I stop to read about some and I'm aware who most of them are even if I don't have a clue why they are considered important.

paleotn

(19,374 posts)
8. "....individuals are the most qualified experts on their own experience..."
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 02:29 PM
Nov 24

BAWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Look. This isn't Lake Woebegone. Whether you like it or not, there's a region of the bell curve, beginning not all that far to the left of the mean, where people's ability to tie their own shoes declines drastically. Much less having a fucking clue about what's going on with them medically. Oh, but they can diagnose and heal themselves. Do what they think feels right. Someone queue Darwin.

And don't even get me started on allowing these loons to vote. OK, so R's don't think voting is a right? Fine. Let's limit it to only those with the cognitive abilities, education and training necessary to do it rationally and in an informed manner. Oh, R's don't like that? Tough.

LymphocyteLover

(6,880 posts)
9. It's the conman's technique-- pull the marks in with one thing that makes sense, in this case
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 02:36 PM
Nov 24

holistic medicine-- then sell them a bill of goods

alarimer

(16,624 posts)
12. If you trust those two, you are stupid.
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 02:50 PM
Nov 24

And pretty much, if you follow all their advice, you may die. So much fucking ignorance on display in this country.

It's Oprah's fault. She foisted Dr. Oz on us, along with much other bullshit like "the Secret". She is just another scam artist.

usaf-vet

(6,979 posts)
13. There's a reason so many Americans trust RFK Jr. and Dr. Oz.........BECAUSE?
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 02:51 PM
Nov 24

Those who trust are one MAGA cult member and two; by definition, they are mentally challenged!

Then, of course, they are seen on right-wing TV stations, which makes them cult bright.

Klarkashton

(2,231 posts)
14. They make artificial but persuaive arguments.
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 02:51 PM
Nov 24

Of you aren't aware that they a frauds it might be easy to buy their shit.

Beartracks

(13,606 posts)
16. Full of what Stephen Colbert calls "truthiness."
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 03:03 PM
Nov 24

It sounds truth-y, and is spoken by someone with "Dr." or "Kennedy" in his name, so it must be true!

==================

NNadir

(34,752 posts)
15. Kennedy was never "an environmental crusader." His environmental views were as stupid as his quack medical views. n/t
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 03:00 PM
Nov 24

bucolic_frolic

(47,309 posts)
19. He was a headliner for NRDC for many years.
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 03:26 PM
Nov 24

I think he did some litigation work for them. This was before he went anti-vax, which I understood at the time to be related to mercury based preservatives before vaccines were refrigerated.

dpibel

(3,393 posts)
23. "A nuke in every garage"
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 03:40 PM
Nov 24

I'm thinking your critique of Kennedy has some connection to your belief that nuclear power is the only way to save the world.

I'm not in a position to say you're wrong about that. Your credentials are impressive, as is your origin story.

Nonetheless, I think in this particular case you are depending on people not knowing the story of the Hudson Riverkeepers and Indian Point.

bucolic_frolic

(47,309 posts)
18. I'm skeptical of medicine. Second opinions are warranted almost half the time.
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 03:24 PM
Nov 24

But snake oil is not a treatment. A tiny percent of people read their own symptoms well enough to self-medicate.

"Standard care" protects them all, and they all hang together. Medical care is a legal license. You can't fight it.

These two are a clown show. Irrelevant except for the time and resources they will waste as the Titanic sinks.

WestMichRad

(1,855 posts)
26. They tell people what some want to hear.
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 04:49 PM
Nov 24

Snake oil salesmen have been perfecting the art of bamboozlement for at least a couple hundred years. These guys are just modern day incarnations of the same type of BS. It’s apparently quite profitable for them.

J_William_Ryan

(2,215 posts)
27. "Because they're stupid?"
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 05:09 PM
Nov 24

Stupid, willfully ignorant, intellectually lazy.

Add to that an unwarranted suspicion or contempt for authority, being told facts and the truth that they don’t like and they don’t want to hear.

Vice President Harris pledging to listen to experts as president likely cost her these votes.

Abolishinist

(2,037 posts)
30. Religion.
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 01:57 AM
Nov 25

The more one believes in a creator god vs. science, the less they are able to have rational discussions about anything.

Tell me I'm wrong.

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