Labour's refusal to oppose Brexit is becoming a historic error

[Soph0571]

The attitude of Corbyn loyalists is that Remainers have nowhere else to go besides Labour. If Labour enable Brexit, this will have no noticeable impact on how Remainers vote in any general election. They dismiss a poll that suggests Labour could lose a large number of votes by attacking the poll: it was funded by the People’s Vote campaign, and “who believes polls?” A more thoughtful criticism is that you are bound to get a large number in any question who highlight Brexit, but general elections will be fought over many issues. In short, Remainers on the left will always vote Labour.

I would agree that one poll tells you little about any future general election, but what it does reveal is the intensity of feeling over the Brexit issue. I think many among the Labour leadership and Corbyn loyalists fail to understand this. They prefer instead to misplace Remainers as the centrist enemy, and see attacks on Corbyn over Brexit as just one more means by which the centre and right of Labour attack Labour. This is a serious mistake.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/12/labour-s-refusal-oppose-brexit-becoming-historic-error

They are assuming that young remainers won't vote Tory, they are not wrong. However if they assume that they will turn out for Labour they are taking a big risk

[Denzil_DC]

1. "The attitude of Corbyn loyalists is that Remainers have nowhere else to go besides Labour."

The Labour Party played the same game in Scotland, pre-Corbyn.

Many Scottish Labour voters found somewhere else to go, me included.

[T_i_B]

2. They also played the same game over Iraq

Different faction in charge now. Same shitty attitude.

[Denzil_DC]

3. Yeah. They'd more or less lost me by then anyway.

I became a floating voter UNLESS it meant risking letting a Tory getting elected in any of our local seats (my floating vote later meant I voted for a Lib Dem who empowered the Tory coalition government, so that worked out well).

My early disillusion did mean I was a whole lot less conflicted when Iraq came around. Luckily, the issue of a Tory being a serious threat in our seats doesn't come up very often.

[T_i_B]

4. I was in my early 20's at the time of Iraq

And living in a tribally Conservative part of the home counties. Where people did support the invasion of Iraq, they were invariably Tory supporters who would never have considered voting Labour even with Blair at the helm.

If Blair felt his massive majority in the commons gave him the freedom to get away with Iraq, Corbyn's bad EU policies have been strongly emboldened by the second leadership contest and the knowledge that the moderate wing of the party cannot topple him due to Labour's internal politics.

And I should also point out that with the Tories having sewn up the OAP block vote, and with Corbyn & co scaring off many voters from turning to Labour the Conservatives are also taking a lot of their own supporters, especially in business for granted.

I suppose the moral of the story here is that politicians are at their worst when they feel comfortable in their position as that's when they start taking people for granted.

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. Worth posting the results of the poll that came out shortly after, and back this up

Peter Kellner, top pollster:

If Corbyn backs Brexit, he faces electoral catastrophe

have seldom seen a poll on a subject dividing the nation for which the lessons are so clear. The biggest survey yet conducted on Brexit shows that Remain would comfortably win a referendum held today – and that Labour would crash to a landslide election defeat if it helped Brexit go ahead.

YouGov questioned more than 25,000 people between 21 December and last Friday. It tested two referendum scenarios. If the choice is Remain versus the government’s withdrawal agreement, Remain leads by 26 points: 63% to 37%. If the choice is Remain versus leaving the EU without a deal, Remain wins by 16 points: 58% to 42%.

The difference is explained by the views of those who voted Leave in 2016. Many of them want a clean break with Brussels, but back away from an agreement that fails to redeem the promise in 2016 to “take back control”. Among all voters, only 22% support the government’s deal. Among Leave voters the figure is not much higher: 28%.

The larger point is that the nature of the choice has changed since 2016 – 52% voted Leave when it was a general aspiration with little apparent downside. Today support for Brexit is significantly lower when Leave is more clearly defined.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/05/brexit-corbyn-electoral-catastrophe-yougov-poll

https://www.peoples-vote.uk/biggest_poll_yet_shows_labour_will_be_punished_at_the_ballot_box_if_it_helps_brexit_happen

[Denzil_DC]

6. David Lammy gives the sort of speech a Labour leader could if he/she had any guts:

Link to tweet

Channel 4 News ✔
@Channel4News

“Blame us. Blame Westminster. Do not blame Brussels for our own country's mistakes and do not be angry at us for telling you the truth. Be angry at the chancers who sold you a lie.”@DavidLammy says that voters were misled during the 2016 EU referendum.#78DaysToBrexit

He hits so many valid points in just two minutes. Bravo.