Education
Related: About this forum"You want kids to come to class? You want them to get excited?"
WFAA Dallas/Ft. Worth:
A YouTube video of a Duncanville, Texas High School student giving his history teacher a lesson has gone viral, and has his district talking.
"If you would just get up and teach us instead of handing 'em a packet yo, there's kids in here that don't learn like that... they need to learn face-to-face," said student Jeff Bliss on the 84-second video clip recorded by a classmate. "You want kids to come to class? You want them to get excited? You gotta come in here, you gotta make 'em excited, to change him and make him better, you gotta touch his freakin' heart. You can't expect a kid to change if all you do is just tell him."
Bliss told News 8 he has no regrets over his classroom rant that occurred on Monday.
"No. Not at all," he said. "I believe that somebody needed to say this."
What he told his teacher in his world history class has now been seen around the world after being featured on several websites and shared on Twitter.
"I want to see a teacher stand up and interact with the students, get involved, discuss, talk, question, and get deep into the subject," he said.
The cell phone video taken by another student begins after the teacher kicks Bliss out of class.
http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Duncanville-students-classroom-rant-goes-viral-206701581.html
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Wait Wut
(8,492 posts)As an old person, even back in the old days, I had teachers that challenged every thought. That encouraged debate and conversation. There were others that put a book in front of us and 'checked out' for the rest of the class.
Guess which ones had better students?
elleng
(136,630 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)is politically stupid. Unless his aim is to get her fired, which it apparently is. But that won't fix the problem of dumbed down education, which is being promoted at the highest levels, not at the level of individual teacher.
Well groovy, what a great kid.
Funny that the teacher is so lousy but none of the other kids chime in.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)This video is all over the teacher/union hating right wing blog sites. Very disappointing to see it posted here and nauseating to see it praised.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I share this kid's frustration, but if I were in his teacher's position? Okay, I don't know her personally, but teachers in general are overworked, underpaid, and under pressure. What may be worse is that they spend years in school themselves, learning their subjects, learning to teach those subjects... and then when they get a teaching job, all of that becomes irrelevant, since they are now going to spend most of the school year "teaching" prep for standardized tests and passing out "packets" crafted by some dingus on the board who believes teachers aren't capable of creating their own programmes.
Both students and teachers are suffering from the state of our public schools.
femmocrat
(28,394 posts)It's all about cramming as much facts into their crania in prep for "the test". If the kids don't test well, it's kiss your career goodbye.
mbperrin
(7,672 posts)This is an 18 year old sophomore, two years behind age level, one year because he dropped out, the other year apparently due to failing enough classes. His mother teaches in another district. One would suppose that because he came back, he has some internal motivation. But apparently, he thinks it is someone else's job to provide that for him.
Duncanville High School is a huge school and is rated Academically Acceptable by the state of Texas, which is a lot harder than people might think for a large school with a big minority enrollment and extensive free and reduced lunch students.
The teacher he's picking on is a Ms. Phung, who not only has her school web page up to date, she also has a youTube channel and a Pinterest site for her students to access for help anytime 24/7. She's in her 40s, been teaching a couple of decades, and teaches 5 classes of World History, a 10th grade class with two of those sections being inclusion classes, which means anything from special ed students to those on criminal probation, suspension from another school, 504 students which could include autistic, wheelchair-bound, deaf, or otherwise physically challenged students.
She also teaches an Asian studies class.
So the school has a good rating on state assessments, she obviously teaches multi-modally, he's in a class full of 15 year olds while he's 18, yeah, I'll just write him up as wanting some attention and having picked up some jargon from mom, all to cover up his embarassment at being so far behind where he should be.
I have a MAEd, so anytime a student actually challenges me on methods, I ask them if they have had fillings installed in their teeth or any other dental work, extractions, anything? When they say yes, then I remind them that they were there all along while the dentists worked on them, and so they wouldn't mind extracting or filling their own tooth next time, would they?
Protests. Then I have to point out the obvious: simply being around an educated practitioner does not mean that you can do any part of their job, that you are a consumer, and when consumers go against professional advice, they cut their toes off underneath lawn mowers, they poison themselves by leaving raw chicken on the counter, and they shoot themselves in the foot trying a quick draw.
Ms. Phung will be lucky she doesn't get fired, because teachers are lowest on the totem poles at schools, just a little below the janitorial staff, pretty far under the cafeteria staff, and only a speck to administration and central office personnel.
And that's too bad. Because then they can get a newbie who will need three years just to be able to have confidence that they are calling on children in a non-gendered, non-ethnic sequence, never mind all the rest of it.
Protests. Then I have to point out the obvious: simply being around an educated practitioner does not mean that you can do any part of their job, that you are a consumer, and when consumers go against professional advice, they cut their toes off underneath lawn mowers, they poison themselves by leaving raw chicken on the counter, and they shoot themselves in the foot trying a quick draw.
So, if a patient is in total agony after the Novocaine wears off, that patient should shut up and deal with it because he/she isn't a dentist?
I will grant you that we know nothing of the teacher other than she is dismissing the student. However, having ushered a helluva lot of kids through school, I get this kid's point.
My dad was a high school teacher in South Chicago, which makes Duncan look like a private prep school, so I get that teaching reluctant kids is an enormous challenge.
I would invite you to this thread to express your feelings: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1124&pid=6303 You'll see that you and I are not as far apart as my reaction to your comments might indicate.
mbperrin
(7,672 posts)Me neither.
She is not dismissing the student. Standard method for dealing with disruptive students (we can agree he is disrupting the class, yes?) is to ignore and not escalate the situation, concentrating on the one thing you need - removal of the disruptor from the classroom environment. Very profession, and one I had trouble with my first ten years of teaching, because I came from construction and the oil field, and these sophisticated methods are not used there - usually ends with something like, "Oh, yeah? You, too, m*********!"
And since district policy will not permit her to speak to the media, she will be crucified by those who interpret her ongoing silence as an admission of wrongdoing.
Adolescents are a tricky and challenging lot - in my 3 decades in the classroom, I've never been bored a moment.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)No biggie.
Squinch
(53,060 posts)is sure the kid is in the right and the teacher is incompetent.
The video tells us NOTHING except that the kid is mad. It might be warranted anger, or then again, he might be a disruptive brat. Anyone looking at that video has no idea which is true.
Thank you for your context. It makes it much clearer which interpretation is correct.
sadbear
(4,340 posts)I've seen this kind of rant before, and most likely, it's total bullshit. We didn't see what the kid did just before being removed from the classroom, but I have some good ideas. And the best thing the kid could come up with was to blame the teacher for his own inability to control himself. Congratulations everyone, you've just been conned by a high school kid with a cell phone.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)Squinch
(53,060 posts)proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)He needs to be talking to policy makers and administrators instead of disrupting his class. The fact that the other kids just sit there and don't necessarily agree with him is pretty telling as well.
eppur_se_muova
(37,585 posts)even though they've never tried it themselves.
It's the kid's job to take some interest in what he's learning. If he's not doing his part, he can shut up about whether anyone else is doing theirs.
Addison
(299 posts)"I have a MAEd, so anytime a student actually challenges me on methods, I ask them if they have had fillings installed in their teeth or any other dental work, extractions, anything? When they say yes, then I remind them that they were there all along while the dentists worked on them, and so they wouldn't mind extracting or filling their own tooth next time, would they? "
This is the typical reaction of many teachers to even a hint of criticism. It's highly ironic. Teachers spend more time evaluating, criticizing, ranking, and sorting others than perhaps any other profession, but when any evaluation is directed at them, it becomes the crime of the century -- especially when it comes from a student.
Do you realize how authoritarian you sound when you say "anytime a student actually challenges me on methods," as if you are amazed at the temerity of anyone who would dare to "actually challenge" your methods?
You may be able to silence your students' criticisms, and you can reassure yourself that your precious MAEd is incontrovertible proof of your infallibility as a teacher, but I assure you that silence or compliance on the part of your students does not necessarily equal agreement or respect. The history lessons contained in Ms. Phung's World History class could no doubt confirm that.
mbperrin
(7,672 posts)Not only do my students have a 98% pass rate over 3 decades on state tests, they have voted me their favorite senior social studies teacher 14 times.
Quite normal for them to challenge authority and to think they know more than they do. (Here's some fun "facts" 15-18 year olds have disclosed to me and the class over the last couple decades: if you douche with Dr. Pepper after sex, you can't get pregnant; if you take 3 aspirins before an exam, you will do better than if you study; you can drink yourself all the around back to sober; and - ugly girls are harder to get pregnant than pretty ones!)
So yes, it reassures them to know that people teaching them know more than they do - if they didn't, well, gee, I don't know. You're about to get an appendectomy, and the surgeon says, well, I've never really studied this, but I'll figure it out, and so you say, sure, go ahead, I want you to feel empowered.
I don't silence my students' criticisms - I teach them better when they are uninformed, and especially, downright wrong. I live in the neighborhood where I teach, and I see many dozens of the more than 8,000 I've taught over the years on a regular basis. In all cases, they are anxious to show me new degrees, babies, houses, jobs, paychecks, and other events in their lives.
I'm not in school to be their friend, although my overall demeanor is friendly. I'm surely not there to puff them up for no reason. What I'm really trying to do, and I tell them this frequently, is to make sure no one puts the con on them five minutes after graduation resulting in a lifetime of misery, poverty, and debt.
Now go get an actual instructional degree from an accredited program, concentrate on secondary, and then come back, and we'll talk technique. Until then, philosophy and attitudes are okay, but like I tell the young earth folks, you can have your own opinion. You just can't have your own facts.
Have a blessed day.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)Neither does this lazy student.
Squinch
(53,060 posts)hubris - with a knife.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)That kid is a know-it-all joke.
It isn't up the to the teacher to motivate students but up to the students to learn.
The kid is a lazy shit who is trying to lay the blame on teachers for his laziness.
Starry Messenger
(32,375 posts)18 is pretty old to be trying to regain credits at the sophomore level in mainstream classes. He's a legal adult now. Any consequences for his choices are all on him.
knitter4democracy
(14,350 posts)I hope she isn't punished for doing her job and having to deal with a kid who wanted to create drama over worksheets for test prep.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)I'm not seeing what she did wrong. Is there more to the story?
knitter4democracy
(14,350 posts)If I were the mom of a kid in the class, I'd be ticked my student lost his/her teacher at the end of the year due to one kid's rant.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)
Squinch
(53,060 posts)When the teacher was teaching about what led up to the beginning of WWI, she did it in real time, and each class she handed us a packet of copies of original material on what happened that day as the world heated up to war: telegrams, newspapers, government reports, etc.
Packets aren't a bad thing.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)My concept of "packet" was a bunch of crappy busy work -- fill in the blanks from reading the book, define a bunch of works, what happened on this date, etc.
When I was in high school, I went to the inner city school. The American History teacher adjacent to my class was a retired colonel with a booming voice. He had the bottom rung kids -- those on the edge of dropping out. He was the most inspired teacher I have ever seen anywhere at any level. Stories from WWI, stories from Korea, etc etc. I would sometimes sit close to the door so I could listen to his lectures rather than the lecture in my class. I think that's the inspiration the kid in the video was seeking.
Squinch
(53,060 posts)kid is seeking inspiration, or is mad that the class isn't exciting like his favorite TV show.
We don't know anything about what went on in that classroom from that video except that the kid was mad.
From the description mbperrin gave above, it seems as if his teacher was well qualified, and teaches the school's most difficult students. Often that means students who aren't able to read at the level of the textbook, or who need to have programs tailored to learning disabilities. For individuation with populations that have learning challenges, packets are often needed and it might be a sign of the teacher's dedication that she is providing tailored packets for her students.
It also seems from mbperrin's description as if the student has a spotty history of attendance, as he is an 18 year old in a sophomore class. I imagine this is frustrating.
I find it interesting that the girl at the table near the door appears determined not to look at the kid, and no other kid in the class voiced support of what he is saying.
I've seen this before, a student blaming the teacher for his own inability to control himself in the classroom. I promise you this is not the first time he's done this to a teacher.
knitter4democracy
(14,350 posts)Why don't the other kids speak up? In the alternative high school I taught in and in the turnaround school I'm in now, if someone started a rant like that in any class, kids would speak up and join in--if they agreed with him. If they didn't, they would sit there quietly and wait for him to leave so they could get on with their work or start telling the teacher to do what it takes to get him out.
The kids didn't back him up. Something smells there.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)
LWolf
(46,179 posts)what inspires some students does not inspire all. What kind of lesson or presentation is "boring" to one is not to another. Students are going to encounter all kinds of teaching styles, some that are a good fit, some less so. Teachers are never going to have whole classes of students who "fit" their style.
Some of the issue is about learning to function in settings that aren't a good fit. That's a life-long lesson.
Some of it is the displacement of blame. Attitude is a choice, and students can choose, when confronted with a teaching style that is not the best fit for them, or content that they aren't that personally interested in, to find something of interest to engage them...or not. They have a responsibility to engage. Teachers are not stage entertainers.
Here are some examples:
Students have different personalities and learning styles, just like teachers have different teaching styles. It's the students' responsibility to engage. It's the teachers' responsibility to vary presentation so that everyone out there gets a decent "fit" some of the time. Still...
Some students thrive on conversation. That's how they best process information; to talk about it to someone else. Some students do their best thinking alone.
Some students like high-energy lectures. They respond positively to preacher-like presentations. Some don't. Some prefer quieter, less dramatic, more concise delivery.
Some students like passive learning, where they sit and listen and someone tells them everything they need to know and do. Not coincidentally, the lowest level of learning. Sit, get, regurgitate. Others prefer their learning to be more interactive; to get some information, to process it and do something meaningful with it. Higher levels of learning.
Some students like group work. Others hate it. The introverts and the gifted tend to hate group work and projects.
What works for some never works for all. That's a truth.
My teaching partner is an extrovert; he gives long, windy, energetic lectures punctuated with dramatic gestures, movement, jokes, and sound to keep students from drifting off. He uses "clickers" to keep them engaged during his very long lectures. He uses the data gathered from those clickers to make attractive, colorful bar graphs, pie charts, etc. to analyze student responses.
I'm an introvert. My style is different. The humor is there, but it's dryer and more subtle. I tell more stories making connections; my partner gives analogies. My time in front of the whole class is shorter, and I spend more time working with small groups, than my partner. I use less technology, and less formative assessment, than my partner. When we have class discussions, or small group discussions, the students talk more than I do. I guide rather than lecture.
Our students get 2 completely different teaching styles; some prefer one more than another, but they generally appreciate both, and are generally successful with both.
We teach adolescents, who can be volatile. If a student is pissed about something, they can find plenty to complain about. What most often aggravates them is the failure of their avoidance techniques, which can be pretty elaborate at that age. We do our best to make it much harder work to fail than to succeed. Those that are okay with failing tend to dislike us most. They are the ones, when our weekly report goes home on Friday, likely to say, "Don't make me do this again! Just give me an F, for *'s sake!" Our response? We're going to keep working on this until you get it correct; until you demonstrate the learning that is the whole purpose.
Being unpopular is not always a bad thing, when that unpopularity is because students are not getting away with disrupting or avoiding.
I once had an 8th grade student that kept coming in to hang out with a group of students I was working with at lunch. After several weeks, I asked him this: "Why do you keep coming back to spend more time, since you hate my class so much?" Something he made abundantly clear during class. Every day. His response? "I don't like your class because you make me read, and I don't want to read. It's not you; you're actually pretty cool."
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)... nowhere in your descriptions of contrasting but successful teaching styles did you mention busy work. When the student in the video was complaining about "packets", for me it conjured the image of multi-page, photocopied stacks of glop such as word searches, matching, and similar junk often used by teachers who are out of ideas. I have been told on this thread that the teacher in question is quite successful and respected, but if the kid has nailed it and she uses packets too often, a highly interactive kid is likely to get frustrated early.
(The reality we just don't know)
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I've been, on occasion, encouraged to put them together for kids going on an extended independent study, or for kids suspended from the classroom, or for kids going on vacation. So I have some stuff I can pull out and use that they've never seen.
While I know those packets are out there, that's the only real experience I have with them in my 3 decades, two states, large and small district, large and small schools. I guess I've been lucky; either that, or they are not the norm.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)Talk about boiling things down to the essentials.
There is more valuable info re. classroom mngmnt. and teaching in general packed into this one reply than in 100 hours of typical in-service training by professional teacher-trainers.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)n/t
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)He may be correct.
Squinch
(53,060 posts)Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Where are the videos of the teacher asking questions and him willingly and deeply responding and trying to push the discussion deeper while the teacher halts that?
And he's and 18 year old sophomore. This is his 3rd go around--whether he failed a 2nd time or dropped out.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)... your points previously were discussed.
Response to Addison (Original post)
savebigbird This message was self-deleted by its author.
no_hypocrisy
(49,065 posts)My experience as a substitute teacher in public schools: If you try to "teach" like the kid in the video (correctly) advocates, you catch heat from the administration. I've been reprimanded and mischaracterized as "out there" for leaving the script of banal textbooks and Weekly Readers to engage in the Socratic Method, to see what the kids really understand and to see how they prioritize what they've learned. What the public schools want you to do now is to just pass out the work sheets, use the white board, and keep the act moving. Don't stop to think. Don't develop a concept. And don't give any of your opinions or extracurricular knowledge.
It's sad. I agree 100% with what the kid in the vid said, but he really should be talking to the Board of Education and the state Department of Education.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)Mr Bliss' mother is a teacher. So there may be a lot going on here psychologically.
That said, she's not SUPPOSED to "get up and teach 'em". The kids are supposed to teach EACH OTHER. She's supposed to "facilitate". She can actually be written-up for not having the kids broken up into groups. ( At least if they evaluate using Danielson.)
She's supposed to be the "guide on the side", not the "sage on the stage". Except when some kids can't work effectively in small groups. Then direct instruction. And make sure to differentiate for every level and preferred learning modality. And don't forget to gather data constantly while you are doing all of the aforementioned. Got it?
Teacher can't win. The fact that this clip's gone viral pretty much proves it.
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)Ok, she is a bad teacher. But here is the thing:
At some point in your childhood and your youth, you will have a bad teacher or two. Sucks, but it will happen to everybody.
Just like in life you are going to have bad bosses, bad co-workers, bad next door neighbors, or even bad family members.
Called life kid.