Hybrid vs. Electric Cars: Why Hybrids Make More Sense - Kelley Blue Book

[Caribbeans]

Hybrid vs. Electric Cars: Why Hybrids Make More Sense

Kelley Blue Book | Russ Heaps | 10/19/2023

Quick Facts about Hybrids and Electric Vehicles

On average, hybrids cost thousands of dollars less than comparable electric vehicles.

The 5-year cost-to-own gap favors hybrids.

Manufacturers can construct 17 hybrid batteries with the materials necessary to make one electric vehicle battery.

Hybrid batteries don’t require an outside electric source to charge

Is the Electric Car Today’s Best Answer?

Many experts tell us that to make the earth safe for our grandchildren and polar bears, we must somehow eradicate, or at least slow, climate change. They further inform us that a critical target in achieving that goal is eliminating fossil fuels and, by association, the internal combustion engine (ICE). A major component in the solution to fossil fuels forwarded by these climate prophets is the fully electric vehicle. I won’t contest the basic premise for the current war on the internal combustion engine here. However, I am taking issue that, given today’s realities, EVs are the most sensible tool for reducing the use of fossil fuels while paring down harmful emissions. They aren’t. Rushing headlong into force-feeding EVs to the public invites short-term disaster.

Setting the Stage

Tesla sells more electric vehicles (EVs) than any other car company in the United States (65% of all 2022 EV sales). Despite Tesla drastically slashing prices of its new EVs this year, nationally, the overall average price of a new EV in September 2023 (the most recent data at this writing) was still $50,683. The average price of a mainstream (non-luxury) vehicle that same month was $44,626. That’s a difference of $6,057. If you want a more specific example, the Kia Niro (HEV) has a manufacturer’s suggested retail price (MSRP) of $26,840, while the Niro EV fetches $39,600. Yep, that’s a difference of $12,760.

Then, the question is: Are the arguments for buying a new EV rather than a hybrid compelling enough to justify spending thousands of dollars more for a fully electric vehicle? Ready for my answer? It’s a hard no. In the real world, most of us work with a budget and must restrict spending to the confines of that budget. Furthermore, a ride around the block on the reality bus makes it abundantly clear other reasons beyond price tarnish the EV spit shine, blinding many EV drum beaters. I’ll lay out some of them as you read on...

...Although an electric vehicle allows its owner to boast zero tailpipe emissions, which is true, an EV is far from environmentally neutral. Much goes into making an electric vehicle that could create a greater negative impact on the overall manufacturing than for vehicles with an internal combustion engine. It’s the precious metals, environmental destruction from mining, pollution from manufacturing, fuel required for transportation, and so forth in the construction of the electric car. Moreover, the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) reports that about 60% of electricity, like that for charging EVs, comes from fossil fuels like coal, natural gas, petroleum, and other gases. Of that, almost 20% comes from coal plants...more including Kelley Blue Book’s 5-Year Cost-to-Own Projections
https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/hybrid-vs-electric-why-hybrids-make-more-sense/

If the electricity in your area is made from natural gas or coal, an EV - battery only OR Hybrid - isn't helping the environment. "Out of Sight, Out of Mind" works though.

[Think. Again.]

1. You're so right about our need to speed up building a clean energy grid!

Driving EVs won't eliminate CO2 emissions if we're still emitting CO2 from generating the electricity we use to fuel the cars instead of emitting CO2 directly from the car itself. Not only that but we will also need to make charging stations as common as gasoline filling stations.

We're finally taking the first steps forward by bringing EVs to the car market, but to keep moving toward a successful transition away from from CO2, we'll need to keep making many more steps forward too.

[MichMan]

2. California and the other states that have mandated no ICE cars be sold after 2035, will only allow 20% to be hybrids

The remaining 80% must be pure EV.

[Old Crank]

3. I was reading that EV vs gas was likely to hit parity in two years.

The biggest excuse for hybrid is long distance travel. Like most hybrid devices they aren't the best at either. In Texas new electric is coming from wind and solar, both are solar, btw. It is cheaper and cost much less to operate solar that coal, which no one in the US is building, and gas.

[progree]

4. Conventional hybrids, i.e. the non-plug-in types, get *ALL* their energy from gasoline. That's 100% refined fossil fuel

Last edited Sat Aug 24, 2024, 12:36 PM - Edit history (2)

So, no, conventional hybrids, fueled entirely by gasoline, are not a solution to the global climate disaster. Essentially they are just a somewhat higher than average mpg gasoline car compared to an ICE counterpart. Anyone who advocates conventional hybrids as a solution to climate change, in my mind, is at best ignorant.

Plug-in hybrids are different, getting *some* of their energy from the grid. A grid that is about 60% fossil fuel, which, while appalling, is still better than 100% as in the case of conventional hybrids. And a grid that is decarbonizing, albeit slowly, and the goal is to decarbonize completely.

So for people who drive a plug-in hybrid mostly 30 miles or less between charges, their consumed energy is more like 60% fossil fuel rather than 100%. As that all-electric range improves, and grid decarbonization continues, the proportion coming from fossil fuels decreases.

Unfortunately I keep reading that plug-in hybrids are often not plugged in or not plugged in enough, so that a large proportion of the miles driven by plug-in hybrids, on average, are from gasoline.

edited to add CO2 emissions from the U.S. electric power sector has decreased 11.8% from 2019 thru 2023. Separately, from measurements of an EIA.gov graph, greenhouse gas emissions from the U.S. electric power sector declined 36.5% from the peak of that metric in 2007 thru 2022, i.e. by more than a third.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1127&pid=175002

[-misanthroptimist]

5. If we were really serious about Climate Change...

...we'd take as many cars off the road as possible and rely on mass transit. Instead, we keep pretending that CC isn't a big problem. Should we have any descendants, they will not think kindly of us. Nor should they. We are selfish and irresponsible children who, when faced with this threat that will devastate future generations, bravely said, "What about our convenience? What about our profits?" and allowed future generations to pay the price for greed.

[progree]

6. And what we're driving is getting bigger and heavier (and more deadly to pedestrians)

As cars and trucks get bigger and taller, lawmakers look to protect pedestrians, NPR, 8/23/24
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2024/08/23/npr-pedestrian-protection-bill-bigger-cars-trucks

Over the past three decades, the average U.S. passenger vehicle has gotten about 10 inches longer, 8 inches taller and 1,000 pounds heavier, according to IIHS ((Insurance Institute for Highway Safety -progree)).

SUVs and pickup trucks now make up more than three-quarters of all vehicles on the road in the U.S., up from only 38% in 2009 — a phenomenon described as "car bloat"

[MichMan]

12. If we were really serious, we would raise gas taxes several dollars a gallon

Nothing would move people to buy EV or hybrids faster than that.

[CoopersDad]

7. Different cars fit different needs. EVs, PHEVs are both much better than hybrids and ICEs.

First of all, all cars are "disposable" compared to public transit vehicles and all private vehicles have a terrible impact.
EVs create just as much congestion as a gas car or hybrid.
It's sad to see KBB make a sweeping assumption with their headline.

As they say, "Your Mileage May Vary"

The KBB article makes a lot of assumptions that aren't really helpful because every owner has different needs and habits.

This tool allows for individualized settings to make more accurate decisions: https://smallsuv.carghg.org/

I love my Tesla Model 3 that I charge at home, it came after owning and driving:
2007 Prius and a 2012 Volt.
The 2007 Volt battery failed the same time it started burning oil.
Two drive trains in one vehicle = twice the headaches and the car ran 100% on gas.

The Volt was much better, being all electric unless I went beyond the battery-only range.
For basic hybrids like the Prius, ALL of the energy comes from Fossil Fuels.

For total cost of ownership and total impacts on the environment, generalizations aren't helpful.
Your driving habits, the car's range, and your local electric power source "mix" all need to be considered.

[mitch96]

8. Hybrids make sense for the transition. No range anxiety..Hybrids are more reliable also while using less gasoline

The Toyota Prius is not only the most reliable hybrid, it is one of the most reliable vehicles ever made.
Hybrids also make electricity by regenerative braking so not only burning gas.
My next vehicle will be either a Toyota or Honda hybrid. It just makes too much sense for my mostly urban driving. No towing, no long distance highway miles...
m

[Finishline42]

9. I owned a 2009 Toyota Prius

Great car. Bought used from a company that mainly rebuilds insurance totals. Mine had been wrecked but wasn't a rebuild. Saved me $2500/yr in gas (when it was $3.50/gal) first two years I owned it over an Avalon (22 mpg).

As CoopersDad stated, it all depends on your daily driving needs. If you drive around 30-40 miles daily and have a way to charge at home - I would strongly suggest a plug-in Hybrid. And I guess it also depends on what your utility charges per kWh (mine is $.11 with no demand charging plans).

[CoopersDad]

11. I really loved my Volt, a crazy driver sideswiped me.

I had the Prius before that, and for the Volt I installed a charger, oversizing it in case I ever needed more current.

My wife treated herself to a Model Y, commutingg 90 miles/day to her classroom teaching job near Yosemite.

When I needed to replace the totalled Volt last year I was already used to the Tesla experience and had the 50 amp charger so went for a Model 3 after test driving a half dozen other cars.

That Model 3 was only $27,000 after federal and local incentives.

Yeah, Elon's a dick but the cars are super smart and well designed and mostly made in the US, the incentives can be use on other models.

[CoopersDad]

10. Challenging the assertion: "isn't helping the environment"

Even in a coal-rich utility area, the efficiency of an electric, or the electric part of a hybrid, is better for the environment than a pure gas or diesel vehicle.

The efficiency of powerplants is much greater than that of a fossil fuel motor.

The science is pretty clear, lots of sources are available. Not a fan of coal, just saying.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/oeprod/DocumentsandMedia/EPRI-NRDC_PHEV_GHG_report.pdf