Detailed breakdown on Tesla's new battery design

[Finishline42]

Batteries are improving on a path similar to what we've seen with flat screen TV's. Below is the summary of the article, follow the link for the details.

The Big Picture

The 4680 is not a single magic breakthrough. It is a symphony of microscopic victories. The path for electricity gets shorter. The cell sheds heat faster. The dry powder flows flawlessly. The structural film becomes indestructible. The electrode drinks liquid in minutes instead of days. The massive steel rollers hold a perfect gap. The metal edges are shielded. The hollow core is reinforced. The entire pack becomes mathematically self aware. The internal chemistry itself is finally prepared for the next generation of silicon, manganese, and lithium metal.

Each detail might look incredibly small on its own. Together, they point to a much larger global goal. Tesla is systematically tearing down the old rules of battery manufacturing to make the process faster, cheaper, cleaner, and infinitely more scalable. This scale matters because every single major Tesla product is limited by energy. Affordable cars need dramatically cheaper batteries. Commercial trucks demand raw, sustained power. Autonomous Robotaxis require an indestructible, million mile lifespan. Global power grids need massive volumes of Megapacks. Humanoid robots like Optimus require ultra compact, untethered energy. Future Gigafactories desperately need simpler, smaller production lines.

The 4680 is not just a new cylindrical cell size. It is a profound engineering reset. By mastering everything from the exact pressure of heavy steel rollers to the atomic structure of liquid electrolytes, Tesla is turning battery manufacturing into an insurmountable, long term advantage. If this blueprint succeeds at a global scale, it will do far more than just power a new lineup of vehicles. It will secure their robotics ambitions, dominate the energy storage market, and permanently rewrite the economics of global electrification.

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[NNadir]

1. Under all circumstances, enthusiasm for batteries represents...

...an environmental and moral tragedy.

This is true well beyond that asshole Musk for whom our antinukes sometimes come here to promote.

We are not going to mine our way out of the collapse of the planetary atmosphere. Attempting to do so is making things worse faster.

[OnlinePoker]

3. Gasoline or electric, how do you expect the transport of goods and people to take place?

You rail against greenhouse gas emitting transportation (rightly so) but now you seem to also be against electrics. I seem to remember seeing something in the past that you were also against hydrogen. What form of transport are you advocating for us to use?

[NNadir]

4. The solution for self propelled vechicles...

...which in general, I also oppose, since I do not believe the car CULTure is sustainable in any form, lies not with hydrogen - which is possibly the worst of all fuels for many reasons on which I've elaborated - nor with batteries. There is not enough cobalt, nickel, manganese, on the planet to replace a billion vehicles. There is not enough copper either, especially since so much of it squandered on connecting all this unreliable so called "renewable energy" junk together.

The key, to my mind, lies for those self propelled vehicles that are justifiable, ambulances, tractors, buses, etc., lies with the hydrogenation of carbon dioxide to produce the wonder fuel DME, which has a critical temperature higher than boiling water, low toxicity, a short atmospheric half life, about five days, and is a drop in replacement for LPG, methane, propane, and with minor changes to seals, in engines, diesel fuel.

The use of DME was discussed at some length by Nobel Laureate George Olah in 2011 shortly before his death in 2017. I often link the paper but am writing from a phone as I am traveling.

The hydrogen for DME synthesis would, in my view, be prepared by thermochemical splitting of water using nuclear heat, recovering exergy and raising the thermodynamic efficiency of nuclear fuel use to numbers approaching 70%, possibly a little beyond.

Interestingly, the main use for DME today is as a replacement for CFCs in spray cans, with some use as a refrigerant as well.

The hydrogenation of carbon dioxide to DME is exothermic, meaning in theory, its preparation could drive its own compression.

As it's critical temperature is high it might well function in heat transfer applications.

I fully confess that it is nonsense to state what one is against if one cannot state what one is for.

I am emphatically against batteries and hydrogen. The embrace of these unsustainable affronts to the 2nd law of thermodynamics is a very dangerous bourgeois affectation.

I feel free to be against them since I am extremely aware that a far superior option is well known.

Thanks for asking.

[Finishline42]

5. Interesting...

I do believe a battery was what enabled you to post a response with your phone...

There was a battery included in every ICE vehicle in my lifetime and those all contained lead (something like 2 billion)

How many billions of cell phones have been sold in the last 20 years? (all with batteries)

While on the subject of batteries, it looks like the world doesn't share your supreme intellect...

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[hatrack]

2. Oh. Look!! A press release!!

[OKIsItJustMe]

6. Tesla's 4680 battery cells are underperforming and frustrating buyers

https://electrek.co/2026/05/07/tesla-4680-battery-cell-performance-data-shows-cant-build-own-cells/

Fred Lambert | May 7 2026 - 9:50 am PT

Five years after Tesla (TSLA) unveiled its 4680 battery cell at Battery Day with promises of 5x the energy, 6x the power, and 16% more range, the data tells a very different story. Tesla’s homemade cells consistently deliver worse energy density, worse charging performance, and less range than the supplier cells they are meant to replace.

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What Tesla promised vs. what Tesla delivered
At Battery Day in September 2020, CEO Elon Musk presented the 4680 cell as a revolutionary leap. The larger format (46mm diameter vs. 21mm for the 2170 cells) combined with a “tabless” electrode design was supposed to hold 5x the energy of existing cells and deliver 6x the power. Tesla said the cells would improve range by 16% at the pack level, cut costs in half, and enable a $25,000 electric car.

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Here is what the actual data shows after five years of production:

Energy density: Tesla’s 4680 cells produced at Giga Austin have a nominal energy density of 244 Wh/kg. The Panasonic 2170 cells they are meant to replace sit at 269 Wh/kg. That’s 13% worse, not better. Tesla claimed higher density in the latest version, but they haven’t been tested yet.

Battery capacity: The new 4680-based “8L” pack going into European Model Y vehicles carries approximately 79 kWh gross (74 kWh usable). The LG 5M pack it replaces in the exact same trim — the Model Y Premium Long Range RWD — had 82-84 kWh. That’s roughly 3-5 kWh less energy in the same car.

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(Follow the link for the whole sad story.)

For those who wonder how an EV battery pack is built, I recommend this video from Munro:

[OKIsItJustMe]

7. Tesla announces $25,000 electric car enabled by new battery cell

https://electrek.co/2020/09/22/tesla-electric-car-cheap/

Fred Lambert | Sep 22 2020 - 8:36 pm PT

Tesla today announced an upcoming $25,000 electric car enabled by its new battery cell and coming within the next three years.

Originally, CEO Elon Musk indicated that Tesla wouldn’t likely make a car for less than $35,000.

His thought process was that with the advent of autonomous ride sharing, electric car fleets would reduce the cost of travel per mile and address the lower end of the transportation market.

However, he changed his tune over the last year and indicated that Tesla would release a cheaper electric car.

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https://electrek.co/2025/06/02/elon-musk-had-already-canceled-25k-tesla-weeks-before-denying-it-publicly/

Elon Musk had already canceled $25k Tesla weeks before denying it publicly

Jameson Dow | Jun 2 2025 - 10:57 am PT

When Tesla CEO Elon Musk publicly denied a report that Tesla had canceled its work on the $25,000 “Model 2” despite the project ending weeks prior, Tesla executives were “alarmed” by Musk’s public lie, according to a new report by Reuters.

In April 2024, Reuters reported that the long-awaited $25,000 Tesla, nicknamed “Model 2” by the public, had been canceled.

Immediately after the report, Tesla CEO Elon Musk responded, stating “Reuters is lying (again).”

However, when he made this statement, Musk knew that the report was correct, and that he had cancelled the project weeks earlier.

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[hatrack]

8. Hmm . . . I may just be an unfrozen caveman lawyer, but they seem to be a bit . . . behind schedule.