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Related: About this forumProgressive AM Radio
About the time progressive radio channels started disappearing was about the time (2008) when Bain Capital bought Clear Channel.
Coincidence?
I think not.
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ProfessionalLeftist
(4,982 posts)Any word on how many visited their local Clear Channel offices today? Guess it's still early yet.
kwikset
(11 posts)Ratings drive everything. Liberals read, conservatives need to be spoonfed on the radio.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)What makes the most (net) gets the air time.
certainot
(9,090 posts)thats a misconception the left needs to get over quick..... see post below, please.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)The economics are clearly not there, as some learned to the significant economic detriment.
Rush Limbaugh charges stations to carry his show. Unheard of in the radio market, but it works because he brings in more listeners than anyone else. Its a clue.
certainot
(9,090 posts)his show was subsidized to start and they bought up stations for him for the purpose they use him for now.
he's a keystone piece for any talk station he's on and a national propaganda operation that does not operate to make money, except incidentally and to pay overhead. his true worth is to get the 1% where it is now. but that is not the market calculation that most people make looking at this, they think he was paid for his wit and wisdom and selling flooring and hair tonic. that is not why he dominates. what the 1%'s think tanks really pay for is his nationally broadcast royal lie-detector-beating certitude and ability to rationalize opposites within minutes. the fact is that the monopoly makes it really hard for progressive talkers who have proven they can beat him to even get a shot. there are many cases of blue area with no progressive talkers but overlapping limbaughs.
i'll bet what is much more significant in the calculation as to whether limbaugh is profitable and ubiquitous is that many of his biggest stations piggyback university and pro sports. take those universities away from them, and they should be soundly shamed, and i'll bet the whole RW radio monopoly is a huge bust.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Limbaugh can make a station. Stations, even in small markets pay to carry his show. It damn near prints money.
If there was money to be made with progressive talk, someone would be doing it. KGO (amazingly) just dumped much of its line up. Its a clue.
certainot
(9,090 posts)rhodes, hartmann, schultz have beaten limbaugh on a level playing field. they just don't get the chance- sure there are parts of the country where they wouldn't, but i'll bet in san fran that was political.
they don't operate that monopoly for pissant ad money - they subsidize and operate that monopoly to create made to order constituents of idiots.
yeah they want limbaugh, he's a legend. but here's a clue- the RW stations are usually very picky about their callers - limbaugh and hannity take very few real calls- few seldom get through to challenge them because they can't handle real challenge to their lies. they also get paid callers to prompt and reinforce them. the progressive talkers aggressively put RW callers to the front of the line so they can debate, and guys like hartmann are often gettting paid callers and point them out.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)RW Talk brings in more $$$ than anything else, including progressive talk. Yes some liberal hosts can bring in a decent market share in some locales, but overall the ratings are with the right wing for talk radio. Ratings = $$$ for the station. Radio is a green eye shade business, always has been.
Not sure how you can claim the KGO massacre was "was a political move, getting ready for the elections". Bay area is solid Democratic. The station management says it was economics, and the rest of radio industry bears that out.
Who has "real callers" and the possible existence of subsidies are not really relevant to station operators. They don't get them. Limbaugh COSTS THEM $$$ to carry and many stations are paying for it since it still makes the largest profit for them.
certainot
(9,090 posts)about everything.
or maybe a lot of that audience is tuning into those giant loud stations because they're the easiest and loudest for weather and traffic and sports and that's part of where the count is.
or maybe the businesses that want those RW stations want the station that's associated with the state university or pro sports.
it's a monopoly and it enjoys those advantages. and like i said, the coordinated messaging from the RW think tanks through those megaphones that repeat their talking points to all parts of the country while hiding behind behind call screeners is much more important and profitable than flooring and penile enhancement formula.
right now the same fucking chickenhawks who screamed about weapons of mass destruction and 'traitors' who wanted to stop a 2 trillion dollar war are screaming iran has our drone and obama needs to go in there or he's weak. that's where the money is and that local and national ad revenue just pays overhead. and the independents who want RW and say its just business are probably significantly aware of all the benefits they get by piggybacking that monopoly.
LTR
(13,227 posts)The reason wasn't politics. It was something called PPM, as in Portable People Meter. This is a new method Arbitron uses for measuring listenership to stations. With the debut of PPM in the market a few years ago, KGO's ratings went down, while the ratings for all-news KCBS and public broadcaster KQED (now the #1 station in the Bay Area) went up. Essentially, KGO and its new owners are trying to compete with those two stations.
Blowing up KGO as extremely as Cumulus did wasn't a very bright idea. For one, there's no way they can compete with what KCBS does. Second, Cumulus likes to run things on the cheap, and that won't work with an expensive format like all-news.
All-news seems to be the latest du jour format. Doesn't skew as old as talk, gets high ratings and brings in lots of money from respectable advertisers (as opposed to partisan political talk). Just this year, upstart Merlin Media launched FM news stations in New York and Chicago (and got promptly and rightfully laughed at), Radio One, of all companies, launched one in Houston which has gotten decent reviews, and CBS launched a WBBM simulcast in Chicago, with a new station to launch in Washington, DC next month. And Merlin might launch another all-news station in Philly sometime next year.
certainot
(9,090 posts)somewhat progressive moderate talkers with other talkers and news, and not even the national heavies. wouldn't they do that if rating was everything? i wouldn't be surprised if they did go to the nationals after a while anyway.
cumulus is part of the RW radio monopoly that is well coordinated and fed by our corporate think tanks and watching stuff like this happen over the years i hope you'll keep you mind open to the possibility that using that station as part of a national and local propaganda machine might be more valuable to those who own cumulus than some ad dollars predicted from a portable people meter.
they'll use any excuse to limit progressive radio and it wouldn't surprise me to find out the PPM was hooey.
i have a question, since you seem to know the business-
can you point me to a source of information that might help me understand the relationships between college sports and radio?
certainot
(9,090 posts)but they make sure he never gets any competition, not even real calls.
Limbaugh has a monopoly on AM stations (public airwaves) in most of the nation. It's a national disgrace.
certainot
(9,090 posts)are you saying in a country that voted overwhelmingly for obama 95% want limbaugh?
one big problem is that in most parts of the US there are no free alts for political talk while driving or working, and that makes for a lot of misinformed people living in an alternate reality that might very well vote and think differently on many issues if they had alternatives. prog talk radio is a great place to get news while working or driving. liberals definitely like listening to music more though.
they have a monopoly, they subsidized it to start it, like they did fox for billions, and they use their monopoly power to suppress competitors.
and limbaugh and hannity didn't get paid 1/2bil$ for selling flooring and penile enhancement formula- they got it for selling war, deregulation, tax breaks, and global warming denial.
and one reason RW radio has kicked liberal ass for 20 yrs is that there's no written record- it's invisible to the analysts, historians, etc. and so the left strategizes and evaluates in a talk radio induced fog blaming the wrong factors and ends up playing catchup trying to figure out how even in a 'democracy' the 1% and the 10% right keeps winning.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)What does this mean? I went into the radio business many years ago. I don't know where you are getting your ideas about what is happening in radio, but most of it is a misconception on your part. The programming decisions in radio are driven by profits and that means isteners and ratings. Limbaugh went national in 1988 with about 50 stations. Within a few years he had hundreds of affiliates, all of this happened when Clear Channel Communications was a company that owned 14 radio stations. That was the limit by federal law. The Telecommunications Act of 1996 changed the law so there was no limit to the number of radio stations and individual or company could own. (That was a HUGE mistake.) Clear Channel overpaid for many of their broadcast facilities and sold them off at a loss. Their stock has taken a huge hit. The reason Limbaugh is on so many stations is because he attracts listeners. There is no conspiracy, it's business. There are many people smarter than me who have tried to figure out why progressive radio has not attracted large audiences. Even m y own Senator Al Franken was unable to get a big enough audience to make Air America a success. Much of their problem was a chicken and egg sort of thing. They couldn't get stations with large coverage areas to air their programming until they got a large audience and they couldn't get a large audience with the marginal AM stations that were willing to take a chance on the progressive programming. Like it or not, Rush Limbaugh pretty much save AM radio from a slow death starting in the 80s. (I confess to listening to his program for a few weeks during Operation Desert Storm. It was all about kicking Iraq's collective ass and not about politics.)
SHRED
(28,136 posts)Clear Channel took KLSD off the air back then and replaced it with a far less popular sports talk.
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ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)While their ad rates would have fallen with the ratings, if the costs fell more, they are making more money from KLSD than they did previously.
Its all about the monthly net revenue.
mrdmk
(2,943 posts)In the Los Angeles (CA) market, during the seventies, all stations had to do community programing. Some of these programs were better than others. The shows had some thing in common:
1) They were an hour long
2) One to four advertisements during that hour
3) One to Two guest for that hour, another words a topic had a complete discussion
4) The guest were screened in advance so incorrect information was not given to the general public. I believe that would have been an embarrassment to the host.
5) Now it seems to be all about the money. Whether earned or funded by someone with an agenda.
The first four you cannot find in today's radio, either AM or FM. I will not talk about satellite radio because those rules have excluded stations from the local community. Only by giving radio back to the local community, will you see that change that you desire.+
LTR
(13,227 posts)They like conservotalk because their sales reps know how to sell it. Same with sports. Most sports stations get crappy ratings but they are really good at pulling in revenue. CC's problem with progressive talk is they have no idea how to sell it, compared to other formats. Which is silly, since it can't be all that difficult.
And there's talk that CC may reverse their decision to ditch Green 960 in San Francisco. The main catalyst for this about-face is the shakeup at KGO. There's talk that they will keep KKGN intact, and perhaps make a run at some of the deposed KGO hosts.
Across the country, CC added a feed of top-rated progtalker WXXM Madison to the HD Radio subchannel of one of their Milwaukee stations. Granted, HD Radio is virtually a nonentity, but it's something.
certainot
(9,090 posts)if it was 80 20 you might be able to sell me on the - liberals don't listen to the radio market forces argument, but the major progressives can and have beaten the major RW shows on an even playing field. they seldom get the chance.
the fact is that in most parts of the country there are NO free alternatives for political talk and they like it that way. if your only choice is an ignorant racist liar who's been wrong about everything major but he's the only one on where you get weather sports and traffic, or he's the only one period, or the boss has him on, he's still the mostly likely one to be on.
and in many blue areas you get all RW, even overlapping, and NO progressive. the profit driven market argument makes no sense- it's an excuse that's used all the time to justify the monopoly.
CC is a big part of the radio monopoly which a big part of the republican media machine- the most important part of it- it exists primarily to repeat and reinforce lies and enable the corporate/republican agenda- not to entertain or sell ad time. they would have to be heavily subsidized if they weren't selling ad time but i wouldn't put it past them to put some of that citizens united money in there and i'll bet they could find a lot of rich republican sponsors to help out.
and i'll bet the whole deck of cards would fall if our universities started honoring their mission statements and broke those sports contracts on limbaugh stations- that why most of those stations sell ad time.
certainot
(9,090 posts)if it was 80 20 you might be able to sell me on the - liberals don't listen to the radio market forces argument, but the major progressives can and have beaten the major RW shows on an even playing field. they seldom get the chance.
the fact is that in most parts of the country there are NO free alternatives for political talk and they like it that way. if your only choice is an ignorant racist liar who's been wrong about everything major but he's the only one on where you get weather sports and traffic, or he's the only one period, or the boss has him on, he's still the mostly likely one to be on.
and in many blue areas you get all RW, even overlapping, and NO progressive. the profit driven market argument makes no sense- it's an excuse that's used all the time to justify the monopoly.
CC is a big part of the radio monopoly which a big part of the republican media machine- the most important part of it- it exists primarily to repeat and reinforce lies and enable the corporate/republican agenda- not to entertain or sell ad time. they would have to be heavily subsidized if they weren't selling ad time but i wouldn't put it past them to put some of that citizens united money in there and i'll bet they could find a lot of rich republican sponsors to help out.
and i'll bet the whole deck of cards would fall if our universities started honoring their mission statements and broke those sports contracts on limbaugh stations- that why most of those stations sell ad time.
shcrane71
(1,721 posts)justify the monopoly."
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!! Why hasn't the FCC broken up this monopoly. In part, the FCC is responsible for ensuring that many groups are served with our public AM radio spectrum. The FCC is a victim of regulatory capture by large media conglomerates. That's just economics 101.
certainot
(9,090 posts)occupy this.
(5 posts)I get Thom Hartmann, Nor-Man Gold-Man, Big Ed, Stephanie Miller, Bill Press...Such a relief to have that alternative. But there's also a local Black talk station that is sometimes even more radical than the progressive station!
shcrane71
(1,721 posts)I may want to move there. 
Downriver Doc
(1 post)Clear Channel has shut down and given away the only progressive talk radio station in the Detroit area.
So much for diversity aye?
Here is what I found on freerepublic dot com. (None relevant section has been removed.)
Clear Channel to take WDTW AM 1310 Detroit dark on December 31 (prog talker)
Michiguide ^ | 12/17/12 | Mike Austerman
Posted on Monday, December 17, 2012 10:01:24 AM by raccoonradio
On the heels of the announcement that Clear Channel will be donating Progressive Talk WDTW AM 1310 Detroit to MMTC (The Minority Media and Telecommunications Council) comes the news that the station will end operations and go silent at midnight on December 31st. WDTW's six tower array along I-94 east of Telegraph in Taylor will be dismantled after the station signs off.
Current morning show host Tony Trupiano broke the news at the end of his 6 - 10 a.m. program this morning. The decision to shutdown the station will cost Trupiano his gig after about 18 months with his last show taking place next Friday, December 21st. A clearly emotional Trupiano explained to listeners that he had been given two different explanations for the shutdown of the station, one official and one unofficial - and that he tended to believe the unofficial version. He told listeners he would be posting further information for listeners on his Facebook page.
Outside of the live/local morning drive show, WDTW primarily airs syndicated programming that includes shows from Stephanie Miller, Ed Schultz, Thom Hartmann, Randi Rhodes, Phil Hendrie, and Alan Colmes.
It's unclear how long the station will be silent pending the donation to MMTC which will attempt to find a minority owner that would likely launch its own programming.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2969525/posts
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)http://www.michiguide.com/archives2012/2012/12/clear-channel-to-take-wdtw-am.html
You might want to edit the link in your post. We don't want to send those wankers at FR any traffic.