*** A Big Thank You to Skinner, et al ... Posted to the AA Group ***

[1StrongBlackMan]

I just received notice that my posting privileges have been restored after getting FFR'ed, yesterday.

Thank you Skinner, et al., for dealing with that matter quickly. I really enjoy some aspects, and most of the people, of DU.

A lingering question for me is, and this is a open question to all ... what can this proud and unashamed Black man safely post to this site without being called a racist or a bigot? ... clearly agreeing that white people could benefit from anti-racism seminars, while noting that those opposing the suggestion are the same ones screaming loudest about how big ... how yuuuggge ... an ally to Black people they are, is unsafe.

[Koinos]

1. K & R

[unblock]

2. just keep doing what you've been doing.

i must have missed the latest drama so i can't comment on that.

but i can say that i'm much more aware and informed about racism and white privilege thanks to links and posts provided by you (ok, and a few others).

as much as i have always felt myself to be a strong ally, i've come to realize that this is one area where i have suffered from the dunning-kruger effect -- i overestimated myself in this area because i didn't know enough.

you've helped open my eyes to my role in the whole rotten machine and given me pause for thought. i'm not yet there in terms of how can i change my life to make the machine something better for everyone, but greater awareness is the first step.

thank you for that and welcome back.

[1StrongBlackMan]

4. Thanks. There is a link to a video floating around DU ...

where a anti-racism trainer said, what I consider, a most profound and self-aware statement, that I have heard ... ever. She was telling a story about her entry into the diversity/anti-racist area. She stated that shortly after she worked in the field awhile, she, suddenly, became aware that she was completely and utterly unqualified for her position, precisely because she thought she understood ... and in her understanding, stopped seeking to understand, but rather, used her level of understanding to answer every question, even her own.

[thesquanderer]

16. Yes, we all occasionally learn some unexpected things here.

Today, for example, I learned about the dunning-kruger effect, something I was aware existed, but didn't know there was a name for!

[heaven05]

3. big PLUS

to you......

[irisblue]

5. I am glad you are here, your posts have taught me alot.

[Surya Gayatri]

6. Keep doing what you're doing, 1SBM. Your voice is a valuable addition to DU.

We've got your back.

[1StrongBlackMan]

8. Thank you. But/and, I am less interested in people having my back ...

then having them help expose the fronting!

[Surya Gayatri]

9. Well, as a white female, I obviously can't speak from the AA perspective,

but I always read, appreciate and kick most of what you post.

I can't "expose" racism from your unique POV, but I CAN listen to and attempt to internalize what you and other AAs are trying to teach us about "systemic" bias and bigotry.

[bettyellen]

34. You can push back and say something when you see it....

Sometimes the my commiserate for validation and I'm like Nope!

[ismnotwasm]

7. It's a tangled web isn't it?

We (progressive) white people want to decry racism, we want to righteously blog about it, write scathing OP's about it, want to root institutional racism out when it comes to criminal justice, although we seem distinctly less enthuthastic when it comes to the many successful programs using affirmative action. We are also less than enthusiastic about discussing reparations, and we are downright mulish when it comes to self-examinination. Some of us believe all lives matter and the way they matter is exactly the same. Some of us roll our eyes at the term privilege, because, geez, we are just so tired of hearing about it, and we can walk away from thinking about our privilege any time we choose

We like the idea of institional racism, but dislike the science of the sociology of racism. How it insidiously affects all areas, all aspects of whiteness. In fact, the concept of whiteness created racism, at least modern, western racism. We participate in whiteness everyday of our lives, not wanting to understand. It's a lot of work. Poor us.


I googled "practicing whiteness" and found this older tumbler blog which describes what I mean ever so much better

whites educating whites (so POC don't have to)

Whiteness 101: There’s no Get-Out-of-Privilege-Free Card
Several times before on separate occasions, we have heard white anti-racists use this argument: “This isn’t about white people, this is about whiteness.” It’s not that only white anti-racists use this argument, but this post will only address those who do. The phenomenon of POC making this argument or practicing whiteness does exist, but this is not something for white folks to fully expose or comment on. Our responsibility is to address the problematic actions, thoughts, and states of privilege of white folks, not to call out POC. In terms of white folks who use the argument that white privilege or white supremacy is not about white people, but is exclusively about the concept of whiteness… we disagree. It is not the abstract concept of whiteness that benefits from white privilege, it is white people who benefit. It is not whiteness that commits lynchings, hate crimes, or shootings, it is white people who concretely carry out these acts of violence. Because white people and folks with white skin privilege are writing this blog, we won’t get the backlash POC would get for “hating white people” with this entry. Even if we are speaking critically of whiteness, we maintain our privilege as people with white skin. Whiteness exists in us and in our skin color as much as it exists beyond these things. Owning this privilege and admitting its existence can’t be equated with “hating” ourselves or other white people.

Whiteness is a combination of social ideas, forces, systems, and actors–all of them inseparable and interconnected. Whiteness is where we have grown up, the privileges we have enjoyed, our media representation, our social and public security, our racial politics, wealth and comfort from prior generations, and it is all of us as people who can only truthfully identify as white or identify as biracial but have white skin privilege. When white anti-racists, or white folks in general, distance themselves from being white they place whiteness in an abstract state and make it seem as though, with enough education, we can escape it. This is not so. It is ridiculous for white folks to say things like “Ugh I HATE white people” or “This is only about whiteness,” because both statements suggest the speaker has somehow “moved on” and is no longer white. Our minds and hearts can change, we as people can change, but regardless of these possibilities, our skin will always be white and we will therefore always benefit from white supremacy/privilege as long as this system is still in tact.

This particular debate is why we said in a previous post on white privilege that Peggy McIntosh’s idea of the Invisible Knapsack isn’t a good place to stop in terms of critically examining whiteness. While her list is accurate and overall holds true in the contemporary moment, its central focus is on individual privilege and freedom, not on networks of oppression and the brutality of power. Whiteness is not just an experience, a social state, or a system of advantages, it is also an expression of violence. White folks thinking of and/or seeing POC as less than human is violent, denying the experiences POC have with racism and oppression is violent, refusing to admit we have privilege over POC is violent, housing segregation is violent, hate crimes are violent, racial language is violent. Why are these events and structures violent? Because they cause material harm and damage to POC. White folks might disagree or disapprove, but we aren’t any less powerful and we can’t claim to be victims.

The point is not to take every argument about white privilege personally, meaning finding ourselves individually guilty for every white aggression/atrocity ever committed, but to understand how we can’t logically claim to be completely separate from whiteness. White anti-racists should not feel the need to comfort white folks (and possibly themselves) by saying “this isn’t about us as people,” when whiteness undoubtedly involves white people and our actions–we are comforted enough by white privilege anyway. If a white person calls an Arab person a (TW) “sand n*gger,” do they get to turn around and say “oh, that wasn’t me it was just my whiteness”? If we’re being real about the situation, it’s both. It’s the person and the privilege, the racist and the racism, that are equally accountable. What about the white folks that marched and organized during the height of the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s? Sure they did good work with their politics in the right place, but their freedom to eat in segregated restaurants, their safety in going home to white neighborhoods, their ability to escape harassment outside of protest scenes, demonstrated the continued existence of their skin privilege. The system can’t exist without people to run it, people to oppress

http://whiteseducatingwhites.tumblr.com/post/28869986415/whiteness-101-theres-no

[BlancheSplanchnik]

10. Saving this read.

And K n R 1SBM's post.

[fleabiscuit]

18. +1

[brer cat]

43. That is a very good read, ism. nt

[DemonGoddess]

11. K&R!

You know, I completely agree with you. You know why? Not everyone is going to have the benefit, such as I have, of having had black friends over the years who've educated me. Without that, I'm quite sure some of my views would NOT be the same as they are today.

[question everything]

12. This is the problem about supposdedly protected groups on DU

like this one and the HRC one and others. They are supposed to be safe place for members of the group to express opinions and offer support to other members. But when others visit and decided to alert and the jury - not realizing that the post was in a safe place - agree, this is what you have.

I asked Skinner, and he refused, to give hosts of these groups more leeway to restore posting privileges and hidden posts. His reply was that he did not want other DUers being bashed in these groups. But it was not about DUers, it is about opinions and observations.

I am not a frequent visitor here, rarely, in fact, but I appreciate your stand.

[1StrongBlackMan]

20. I do not seek a safe space to post stuff, I'm questioning whether ...

it is safe for me (or any African-American) to post anything, with respect to race matters, that is not apologia and feel good stuff ... which is surprising, considering the number of progressives that claim DU as a home?

[tclambert]

13. As a white man, let me explain racism to you.

Ahahaha. Do you really think I'm that dumb? Hell, I'm not a Republican!

But as a white man, a do feel an urge to steal the issue of racism from you and claim I am the real victim. You know, white men have had it pretty tough in this country. Like when that guy took away our right to own slaves. Owning slaves was a big economic advantage. Taking them away was a real hardship to all the slaveowning class. (Apologies to Louis C.K., from whom I stole this joke.)

[Silver_Witch]

14. In these times it is hard to know what is safe to post!

Caution or saying what u feel are the only choices you have. Good luck my friend!

[MrScorpio]

15. Someone alerted on your OP

It's pretty freaking ridiculous.

[1StrongBlackMan]

21. Probably, the same "ally" that alerted here ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8023370

[MadDAsHell]

17. The challenge I see is that "safe group" posts can still end up on the Greatest/Latest Page...

Which is sort of strange considering the whole purpose is for these groups to be cordoned off from the rest of DU.

If the members of "protected groups," "safe spaces," whatever we want to call them, want to be able to have open, candid discussions on the topic of their choice without fear of hides, opposing viewpoints, etc., that is an awesome thing, and they should be able to do so.

But many of these members also want their threads to be able to show on the main pages, such as the Greatest, and that is where the problem lies, IMHO.

The Greatest Page does not make it obvious enough that a thread is in a protected group, and so the many members who basically live on the Greatest page see the thread and immediately go into it reply, alert, etc., not realizing there are different rules at play.

I've said it before; I think "protected groups" threads need to be in their own section so they can't rise to the Latest/Greatest (if protected groups want to be separate I don't see why they would oppose this), or the Admins need to draw our eyes much more to the Group in which each thread is located.

[fleabiscuit]

19. Some peeps are targeted. Doesn't matter where they post. eom

[1StrongBlackMan]

22. As I mentioned above, I do not seek a safe space to post ...

I just question whether it is safe for me (or seemingly any African-American) to post anything with respect to race that is not apologia or feel good stuff. I find this strange, considering the number of progressives that call DU a home.

I, for one, post to the AA Group when I want serious discussions around race because the discussions are generally respectful, even as they are hotly contested.

When stuff like this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8023370 (or even the instant thread) is alerted on, and in the former instance, hidden, DU is proves to be a less than progressive place.

[sheshe2]

38. I think you should post anywhere you please.

It is your right.

The said progressives do little to support you, a black man or me a woman. I never see them kicking threads about women or black issues. I only see criticism, pushback and attempted hides.

I think the "Progressive" label is misleading, to me it means purist. I will stay a liberal Democrat, and I will liberally support all people every day. That is my goal and I am sticking with it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

39. +1... What you said.

[sheshe2]

40. Yesterday.

I did a post about woman protesting the GOP in Cleveland. They did it naked. It was awesome and I did not see the "Progressives" there shouting their support.

Actually I got alerted on. Wow, DU and the said Progressives, no show, alert... sad our voice should be silenced.

I am not at all surprised yours was. Tell it. I will as well.

[Starry Messenger]

23. He needs to ban the serial alerters on minority posters.

He once banned someone who was unreccing every single post in the old DU2 LGBT forum--he knows there are people here who are not good faith actors on these issues.

[1StrongBlackMan]

24. I wonder if the place would improve if ...

the admin went to certain other sites, read the celebrating (specifically referring to the bullshit they are pulling here) and match up the ip addresses ... then, banning the shit out of the not of good faith actors.

It would be some work, but I suspect the effort would be enlightening.

[Starry Messenger]

25. Oh yes, indeed!

[sheshe2]

41. I know what you mean Starry.................

How could anyone alert on this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11389011

[Bok_Tukalo]

26. You should be able to say what you like

As long as one is not required to agree.

[Warpy]

27. You're doing fine

You've managed to help me think differently about a thing or two over the last couple of years, so what you've been doing is working.

At least the DU PTB have realized that outspoken AA people are being targeted by alert trolls.

I had hoped the new jury system would improve things a bit, but most of the alerts I've gotten have been beyond silly, thin skinned people alerting because someone disagreed with them.

[tblue37]

28. K&R. nt

[chillfactor]

29. I am so happy to have you back!

Apparently we have a racist hiding out on DU....how sad.

[1StrongBlackMan]

33. LOL ... apparently, we have one less in hiding. (See: "Post Removed")

[BlueMTexpat]

30. Thank you for posting what you

do! I am one of your greatest fans!

[greatauntoftriplets]

32. Thank you, Skinner!

And thank you 1SBM.

[Quayblue]

35. Remember you need that approval 1SBM

That's the only way these discussions can work.

[pnwmom]

36. Clearly you and others are being targeted. Thank you for remaining here, and continuing to

speak your mind.

[1StrongBlackMan]

37. I would think I just upset a few ...

but for the fact that the rules require 4 of 7 to hide a post. I don't have the inclination to calculate the odds of finding consecutive juries that would vote to hide my post, only to have them re-instated upon review, but I would imagine the odds would be pretty long ... if there wasn't some pack behavior occurring.

[lib87]

42. Add a Disclaimer!

I prefer "You're a great ally to AAs. Lord knows you are!" It will put your sensitive delicate alerters at ease before they read your informative posts.

But seriously, I truly do not know. People don't like to hear the truth when it comes to racism. Keep posting though!

[brer cat]

44. You should not be forced off the site

or into undue censorship because a minority of the members don't want to hear your point of view. It is absurd on its face! This joint is not named RepublicansRUs. If your words so offend the sensibilities of these people they should find the ignore function. They have no right to censor what you write or what I read.

And these people are not only the same ones screaming loudest about how big an ally to Black people they are, they are also screaming loudest about freedom of speech. Oft times it seems they believe in freedom of speech only when it confirms their world view, not challenges it. What a little bubble to live in.

You have been the catalyst for a lot of stimulating and educational discussion here. Keep it up! It is encouraging that the admins resolved this so quickly.

[gollygee]

45. People on juries can't see your name

So they must be just hiding everything that talks about racism, or any post where the poster says they're African American?

I'm glad you're back!

[1StrongBlackMan]

46. I didn't know that about the new jury rules ...

my fan club has made sure that I have about the same odds of serving on a jury, as I would getting elected to head the NRA, on an gun control platform.