Why do both people love conspiracies, while denying oppression that is in plain sight?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

it is funny how people love hidden conspiracies so much more than they love oppression that is in plain sight. There was no voter fraud or election fraud this cycle, but there was massive voter suppression of the black vote.


This was the first election post the striking down of the voting rights act.

We need contribute to real issues and spend our time fixing real things. Giving Jill Stein money is not helpful and further bolsters GOP talking points that there is election/voter fraud.

[Uponthegears]

1. Okay, there's pretty clear election fraud

In places like Wayne County

but you could not be more right about combatting voter suppression (in fact, one of the major forms of voter suppression . . . sticking urban neighborhoods with an inadequate number of polling places and poll workers and with the most worn out machines . . . is a big factor in what happened in Wayne County).

It's everywhere Republicans are in control and it's probably going to get much worse.

We need money, but, whenever possible, people on the ground because the fact is that black people are going to have every "t" crossed and every "i" dotted come time for the next election.

Big rec!

[Dream Girl]

2. How so? I'm not following your logic.

How does "giving Jill Stein money" not show that there is voter suppression? I would posit that the recount can help by pointing to the systematic suppression of AA voters via inadequate infrastructure around the voting process. That's not to say they have other ways of suppressing AA votes of which striking down the voting rights act, voter ID, felon laws etc. are major factors. But there is also throwing out ballots, inadequate machines and ballot tampering. I think there are lots of ways to skin the cat...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. because itbolsters the argument that voter fraud is a huge problem

and more and more people become OK with voter ID etc.

here is a great root article about it http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2016/11/4-ways-the-jill-stein-recount-screws-black-voters/

[Dream Girl]

5. Just skimmed the article quickly. It makes no sense. I'm not getting it...

there is voter suppression and that is #1, we need to focus on the mid-terms and get people to start paying a whole lot more attention to local elections from dog catcher to , judges to state senator, sec of state etc. not sure how the recount distracts from that...it will be over in a week or two. How does the recount have any impact on whether or not people are focused on other things, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. I think there is a good possibility it will show how rotten and systemic our election infrastructure is vs. voter fraud. It is highly unlikely that any voter fraud would be uncovered, but it could give us more ammunition to point to the f'd up system we have by calling into question the legitimacy of the outcome in say, Michigan. Finally, Jill Stein is not going to use that money to buy a summer home, no one is "giving her money", it's mostly been spent already, it's not hers to keep.

[progressoid]

6. The Green Party sued to overturn Tennessee's voter ID law.

It's possible to fight this on multiple fronts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/27/green-party-voter-id-tennessee_n_3822968.html

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. If you want to undercut your own argument

Then yes, if not, no

[think]

3. The Interstate Cross Check system deserves to be investigated. Voter ID laws need to be overturned

the number of polling places needs to be increased in communities where it has become common place to wait hours in line, and early voting needs to be expanded not curtailed.

And restore the Voting Rights Act.

This should be a major focus for Democrats. Voter suppression is a multi pronged approach by the GOP that needs to be addressed on all of those levels to truly get voting rights reformed.

For what it's worth Jill Stein is condemning the use of the Interstate Cross Check system and other voter suppression tactics:

Jill Stein and Ajamu Baraka call for an immediate halt to the use of all voter suppression tactics, including "Interstate Crosscheck," to prevent the inevitable disenfranchisement of countless voters. Stein and Baraka pledge to guarantee the right to vote for all U.S. citizens and to fight what the Reverend Joseph Lowery calls "Jim Crow all over again."

http://www.jill2016.com/interstate_crosscheck

[Land Shark]

8. There is so much open oppression. Wouldn't there be more under cover of Secrecy?

Seems like a no brainer to me. I understand the tactical reasons not to go there but not the logic of the OP.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

9. no, it wouldn't because one comes with threats of jail and others don't

[Land Shark]

10. In those states actually making insider fraud illegal, it is LESS punishable than voter fraud

Consider that incentive, plus the radical lack of transparency involved with software amd the denial of all forensic requests when weighing insider fraud (which can deliver the desired results) vs voter fraud (never delivers results) and voter suppression (needs to be huge and visible, may or may not deliver the results desired)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

11. there is really no proof of this. i dont get why we push a narrative that has no evidence

[Land Shark]

12. There is evidence, but nobody is required to have PROOF at the outset of any legal case

The demands for proof in order to proceed with discovery of facts is one of the most bizarre things I've come across in the twenty one years since I started law school.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

13. where is this evidence of massive election fraud?