Pope Francis pushes a new theology of climate change

[guillaumeb]

From the article:

Moving beyond his 2015 encyclical “Laudato Si’,” Francis called for “prophetic actions” to spur governments to undertake “drastic measures” to achieve zero net greenhouse gas emissions and keep average global warming at 1.5 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels. He points to the United Nations Climate Action Summit on Sept. 23 as a place to show political will and signals that next month’s Amazon Synod of Bishops will itself address climate.

To read more:

https://religionnews.com/2019/09/03/pope-francis-pushes-his-climate-theology/

[trotsky]

1. Overpopulation has a huge environmental impact, and is contributing to climate change.

Is he proposing any changes to his church's dogma that insists people cannot use birth control?

[wasupaloopa]

2. The reality is that people think for themselves about birth control. More important is

climate change because people can’t plan for their air and water.

[guillaumeb]

4. Very true.

Climate change is truly an existential crisis.

[trotsky]

6. Climate change is the critical issue for our species.

We should throw EVERYTHING we can at it.

That the pope's church won't even consider changing one of their teachings that has a direct impact on the environment makes him (and his church) look like incredible hypocrites.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

8. So what he says doesn't matter?

Because the RCC is ABUNDENTLY clear about the use of birth control and the level of sin it is (hint: it's a big one). So if the church can't convince people that using birth control will send them to hell, what does it matter what he says about climate change.

[wasupaloopa]

17. I am a Catholic and my brother is a priest. Most Catholics use their own judgement with respect to

Church's rules.

You can do with that what ever you want, it won't change the facts.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

26. Well I went to a seminary and went to school with 4 people that are priests now.

The fact that they do what they want doesn't change that it's a sin. And it doesn't change the fact that if that is your argument, then what the Pope says doesn't matter for shit. About anything. Including climate change.

[wasupaloopa]

27. People are getting their panties in a twist about Catholics relation to what the Pope says

It’s good we all have on opinion on it.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

28. I don't care what the pope says. Many people here think it is important.

You and others seem to be arguing that Catholics don't listen to the Pope and do whatever they want. If I grant that what you say is true, then the point many people here are making is that it isn't important that he wants to solve climate change. Catholics may or may not listen to him.

Of course, you and I both know that the reality is that people want to say that what the Pope says is awesome when it looks (important word is "looks" because he has done NOTHING to change RCC doctrine) progressive but when he says things that are distinctly not progressive (and actually in line with RCC doctrine) like gender identity is from the devil or that it is a sin to use any contraception, then it doesn't matter what he says.

I think he's anti-progressive and not someone we should ever look up to. YMMV.

[demigoddess]

41. and yet we live in a religiously diverse nation and someone is

making abortion illegal all over the country. You can believe anything you want but you cannot practice it if it interferes with mybeliefs!

off topic, I know.

[Voltaire2]

12. Oh so the RCC's edicts are ignored.

Ok, so this edict on climate change is at least as meaningless as their edict on birth control.

[trotsky]

14. Isn't it funny how that works.

"Pope says people need to do what he says on birth control!"

Oh it's OK, no one listens to him on that.

"Pope says we need to address climate change!"

Everyone needs to listen to him on that!

[wasupaloopa]

18. People already believe in climate change. There is no rule saying they have to.

Seems to me you are blowing smoke up everyone's ass for your own personal needs.

[trotsky]

31. I'm criticizing the hypocrisy of the pope and his church, as well as...

the hypocrisy of people who say we should ignore the pope when it comes to birth control, but everyone totally needs to listen to him when he speaks about climate change.

I'm sorry if that upsets you.

[guillaumeb]

3. Sadly,

no.

But in contrast to many right wing theists, the Pope knows that climate change is real.

But on the subject of birth control, surveys show that many Catholics use birth control.

[trotsky]

5. "surveys show that many Catholics use birth control"

Many, many more would (including in developing countries where overpopulation and lack of reproductive freedom are more severe) if he lifted his church's ridiculous, outdated religious ban on it.

But he (and his church's hierarchy) are convinced this is what their god wants. They have faith, and so they can disregard facts.

[AtheistCrusader]

20. Many catholics live in non-catholic controlled nations and have the privilege to use things they

officially disapprove of.

In catholic-controlled countries, such things are simply unavailable.

[guillaumeb]

25. Or unofficially unavailable. eom

[AtheistCrusader]

36. Like abortion in a number of southern states right here in the US.

The Evangelicals and Catholics are on the same team on that one. That's a huge voting bloc when you put them together.

[corbettkroehler]

7. I Suspect That He May

He has been softer on family planning issues, for economic and environmental reasons, than his predecessors.

Should he take a firm stance, I would concur with what I presume to be your position that family planning must play a role in a comprehensive climate solution.

Bernie touched this issue in the CNN Climate Town Hall.

[trotsky]

9. What would lead you to believe he'll change that?

He has given no indication whatsoever that he would.

And in fact, despite some of the speeches he's given, he has changed absolutely nothing about the RCC. All talk, no action.

[corbettkroehler]

11. His 2016 Document, "The Joy Of Love", Was The Beginning Of The Softening

"Let couples, not the Church, decide on contraception: Pope Francis writes in 'The Joy of Love'"

http://firstpost.com/world/let-couples-not-the-church-decide-on-contraception-pope-francis-writes-in-the-joy-of-love-2719410.html

[trotsky]

13. Words, no actions. Just like I said.

He's pulling one over on you.

[guillaumeb]

23. But words that contradict your narrative. eom

[trotsky]

32. My narrative is that the pope says things, but never follows up with actions.

And that narrative happens to match reality.

So fuck your standard "narrative" bullshit as a way to try and dismiss someone else's point of view, g.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

15. Um, you forgot to quote this line:

"In the 256-page document The Joy of Love, Francis makes no change in church doctrine and strongly upholds that marriage is a lifelong commitment." (emphasis mine)

Wonder why.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

10. Never going to happen that the RCC softens on birth control.

NEVER.

[Cartoonist]

16. By not addressing birth control

The Pope is telling the rest of us to put out the fire but don't use his water.

Religion is evil even when they try to be good.

[wasupaloopa]

19. Funny how much non Catholics here can teach Catholcs about their religion.

If you have a problem with the church's rules, than you have a problem with the church's rules.

Most Catholics use birth control. So the argument that the church is causing overpopulation is bogus. Hate religion if you want, but get the facts straight.

[Voltaire2]

21. Most Catholic women in the US have used birth control.

get the facts straight. In other very catholic parts of the world, the story is quite different. In Latin America and parts of Africa the RCC has worked diligently and frequently effectively to block access to contraceptives.

[wasupaloopa]

22. What percent of Catholic women is that?

Not all of those country’s population are women who support Catholic Church rules. Most likely it minuscule.

Just as much education about family planning is taught,

Bottom line blaming the church for over population is bogus.

[trotsky]

33. The RCC officially teaches that using birth control is a sin. A very bad one.

They also work to make contraception more difficult to obtain in every country.

I blame the church, not for the entire problem of overpopulation (nice straw man!), but for doing nothing to address it - and in fact, making it worse.

[guillaumeb]

24. Facts must defer to the narrative of "religion bad". eom

[Cuthbert Allgood]

30. It's not deferring so much as accurately describing in a lot of cases.

Or do you think the RCC stance (not what you think all Catholics do) on birth control is just fine. I think it's bad. Period.

[trotsky]

34. Does teaching that contraception is a sin alleviate or exacerbate the overpopulation problem?

Fuck your "narrative" bullshit, g. Engage in actual discussion. Answer my question.

I know you won't, of course. You'll just hurl another insult or toss out another coy remark about narratives or choirs or similar nonsense because you're afraid of actual discussion. You hate seeing religion criticized and since you can't defend it, you attack the critics.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

29. Funny how you assume that those that don't like the pope don't know the RCC.

That would be patently wrong. I am well versed in RCC dogma.

[Act_of_Reparation]

35. How are you defining "the church"?

Because the commentary in this thread seems to imply the institutional definition of the term, i.e., the clergy.

Incidentally, not all non-Catholics were always non-Catholics. You might want to keep that in mind.

[Act_of_Reparation]

37. Wow that's great.

Maybe he could also push new theologies of accepting gay people, not obstructing access to health care, and not willfully endangering children... you know, if he isn't too busy going after low-hanging fruit.

[trotsky]

38. Much easier to lecture others about what THEY need to do.

This pope, like every one who preceded him, is a ("literal&quot holier-than-thou hypocrite.

[uriel1972]

39. but..but.. washing the feet of poor peeple!!!!

saying all those nice things... how could he possibly be a hypocrite?

Sarcasm FTW!

[Voltaire2]

40. One of the effects of "infallibility" is that

current and future popes are locked in to the official pronouncements of their predecessors. In fact that may have been a primary motivation for the adoption of the infallibility doctrine in the late 19th century

[guillaumeb]

42. Diversion. eom

[Voltaire2]

43. slow day on the religion forum?