'A threat to democracy': William Barr's speech on religious freedom alarms liberal Catholics

[Eugene]

Source: The Guardian

'A threat to democracy': William Barr's speech on religious freedom alarms liberal Catholics

Attorney general’s recent address at Notre Dame is a ‘dog whistle’ to conservatives who have aligned themselves with Trump

Philip Shenon
Sun 20 Oct 2019 07.00 BST
Last modified on Sun 20 Oct 2019 07.21 BST

Prominent liberal Catholics have warned the US attorney general’s devout Catholic faith poses a threat to the separation of church and state, after William Barr delivered a fiery speech on religious freedom in which he warned that “militant secularists” were behind a “campaign to destroy the traditional moral order”.

The speech last Friday at the University of Notre Dame law school, in which Barr discussed his conservative faith and revealed how it affects his decision-making as the nation’s chief law-enforcement officer, has set off a fierce debate among Catholic intellectuals from across the political spectrum, as well as among Catholics inside the justice department.

C Colt Anderson, a Roman Catholic theologian and professor of religion at Jesuit-run Fordham University, said in an interview that he was unaware until this week that Barr was a fellow Catholic. Now, after reading the speech, Anderson believes the attorney general, in revealing his devotion to an especially conservative branch of Catholicism, is a “threat to American democracy”.

He described the speech as a “dog whistle” to ultra-conservative Catholics who, he says, have aligned themselves to Donald Trump in a campaign to limit the rights of LGBTQ Americans, immigrants and non-Christians, especially Muslims, and to criminalize almost all abortions. “The attorney general is taking positions that are essentially un-Democratic” because they demolish the wall between church and state, Anderson said.

In the hallways of the justice department in Washington, there has been a similar furor among some Catholics employees who answer to Barr. “I was shocked by the speech and all this fire and brimstone,” said a senior department career official who considers himself a devout Catholic, speaking on condition that he not be identified for fear of losing his job.

-snip-

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/19/william-barr-attorney-general-catholic-conservative-speech

[ck4829]

1. K&R

[abqtommy]

2. We should always listen carefully when Bolshevik Barr tells us who he is.

[Newest Reality]

3. Anecdotally

I have some cognitive dissonance here.

Not all Christians are the same and that should be made clear. It is the same problem of who has the right one and the hundreds of different views and opinions that there are. We tend to paint with a broad brush when, in fact, generalizing is a distortion.

Evangelicals are Protestants. The ones that I have met and talked to in the past retain a grudge and have a strong disdain for Catholics, so much so that the Pope is the Devil incarnate for some of them. Having been raised a Catholic and after escaping in early, I recall a rather tepid and more inclusive environment and attitude while I was there, but that was a long time ago.

I just don't see Catholics and Protestants ever fully resolving the break that Martin Luther made and it is evident to this day even if the antipathy is more one-sided. So, I really have skepticism about what is going on with Barr. He is not really behaving or expressing himself in the way that I have known Catholicism, in this case. Have the Ultra-Conservative Catholics made a pact with their arch-enemies, the Evangelicals? If that is the case, it won't last long, in my opinion.

Just had to ramble a little about this. Something just seems wrong here, but these days, with this MisAdministration, most of it does.

[pangaia]

6. It is the whole 'conservative' side of any 'religion,'

which ( meaning religion), in my view, is simply the watered down, ignorant version of very old and true psychological, 'scientific' teachings. But that is another topic.
The avoidance of casting pearls before swine, coupled with the stupid, ignorant, lazy, simplistic minds of the masses.

And conservative religion is even worse !

people like pence, barr and, I would bet, many if not most of trump's cabinet, advisers, etc belongs in the latter group...


this is a rapidly metastasizing deadly cancer..

[Newest Reality]

8. Thanks!

I agree on those points. Yes, the ancient teachings in most cases get watered down, distorted, misappropriated, etc., eventually.

We do have a problem and I have posted about the Theocratic intent of some of this and suggested reading up more on their movements.

[Lonestarblue]

10. Recent Pew Research results on religious affiliation show significant declines.

Here’s a link to some interesting charts.

https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/

In the US, the number of people claiming no religion has grown by 30 million people in the last decade. Younger people especially are choosing no religion. People like Barr and the extremist right-wing evangelicals (mostly white and rural) are most likely turning off young people with their views that women are subservient to men, gays should be punished, minorities are inferior to whites, and women should not have the right to make their own medical decisions. Young people have friends whose are gays or minorities, so they do not buy the religious theology being pushed. That said, some mainstream Christian denominations are also having losses, so many people are just not identifying with formal religious beliefs now. Personally, I’m fine with that because I believe that our laws and government are too influenced by religious considerations and beliefs.

[pangaia]

15. Yeah, that ole 'gay agenda' really has them worried..

Especially since 'the gays,' according to barr, are only about 1% of the population

[Newest Reality]

16. Yes,

I have posted my view that we are seeing a desperate, maybe even last-ditch effort by the Right and Evangelicals to grab power before they become irrelevant in the mainstream. The demographics and future do not look good for them, overall.

It seems to make more sense, considering the extremist and exaggerated grasping.

[orangecrush]

22. +1

[saidsimplesimon]

9. There are "Evangelical" Catholics.

I have meet them among the ranks of Opus Dei and the working poor.

[Newest Reality]

13. Well, well...

Hybrids, huh? Thanks for the update. I didn't know that.

[orangecrush]

23. Me neither

And I have been Catholic for 61 years!

[saidsimplesimon]

27. This is in conservative, red Arizona.

I'm not practicing any religion, never have.

[defacto7]

31. Most liberal Catholic scholars call them

the pre Vatican II Catholics. They adhear to the absolutist, Latin mass and unbridled child making rites. With them you are either Catholics who do it their way or you are a gentile although making peace with the enemy can be made as long as it serves their present task. These unclean alies would have to be converted or discarded after their usefulness expired. They are extremist idealogs or you could say evangelical I guess, although evangelical is a much broader term in Protestantism.

[saidsimplesimon]

33. Yes, you raised a valid concern.

They are ultra-conservative and idealogs, I lumped them in with other "birds of a feather".

[Bretton Garcia]

34. Barr's real Pope and God, is Trump

[Mariana]

36. "Not all Christians are the same and that should be made clear."

How, exactly, do you think this could be made any more clear than it already is? No one thinks all Christians are the same. The idea is ridiculous on its face.

There are 1000's of different varieties of Christianity - the multitude of different denominations (and divisions within the denominations), countless "nondenominational" and "independent" churches who don't follow any external authority, and who knows how many millions of individual practitioners, with their own unique interpretations. A person can believe or disbelieve just about anything, and still be one flavor of Christian or another. There is no possible way to make it any more clear that all Christians are not the same.

[Newest Reality]

37. We may know that...

I said that intentionally and to some people it is clear. I have seen people here behave as if they are the same, and also as if all religion is similar or even bad. So, because I pay attention to the biases expressed, I qualified my statement.

You may notice that there is a lot of broad brushing about religion because generalizing is very common. This idea of variations and differences does apply broadly to other religions as well as political identification.

I just wanted to make that clear. I, too, often project a bias that people should know what I know because it is obvious to me. It is common.

[Bretton Garcia]

38. If it's called a "religion"? Then someone noted its generic similarity to other religions.

They're not identical. But still? There's enough resemblance that they've been lumped together under one umbrella, one name.

[Ohiogal]

4. The old

"freedom to impose MY religion onto everyone else" concept.

The part about "natural law" is particularly frightening.

I think most liberals agree with freedom of religion ..... to worship any way you want ..... as long as you don't make everyone else follow your religion's tenets.

[pangaia]

5. Thanks for posting. I was just about to.

And I read his whole speech, or most of it a day or so ago.. absolutely frightening !!

And PENCE-- this fucker must also be brought down....

He is a true believer and THAT makes him in a way just as dangerous as trump.

[58Sunliner]

7. Well WTF is hiding in Barr's closet? Project much?

It's a dog whistle all right. The guy wants to hide his crimes behind the guise of faith and shut down his detractors.

[dewsgirl]

11. His and Pompeo's aspiring theocracy are quite alarming.

[pangaia]

17. pensepensepense

[dewsgirl]

21. Truetruetrue.

[orangecrush]

24. Yepyepyep.

[Martin Eden]

12. a " campaign to destroy the traditional moral order"

That describes Donald Trump to a 'T' -- along with everyone who enables and protects him -- Barr, first and foremost.

[dlk]

14. Religious zealots, no matter their religion, are a direct threat to our democracy

Our country was founded in freedom from religion. Sadly, there will always be zealots who want to impose their personal beliefs on everyone else. It’s especially alarming, however, when the US attorney general, the top law enforcement officer, is the zealot.

[keithbvadu2]

18. According to Franklin Graham and Jeffers, Catholics are not real Christians anyway.

According to Franklin Graham and Jeffers, Catholics are not real Christians anyway.

[NoMoreRepugs]

19. Barr a crazed religious zealot- that explains a lot.

[yaesu]

20. Religion is just another fascist tool to take it all, rule it all. nt

[Bretton Garcia]

39. One who worships conservative presidents

He worked for one of the Bushes. Like Kavanaugh, another Catholic.

And both secretly worship, idolize, their bosses. Since both present half-legal arguments saying a president is, or should be, a "strong executive." Even kinglike. Even pope-like. Even almost, godlike.

Making them both royalist enemies of democracy?

[SCVDem]

25. Fish fry Fridays were good!

Then the Pope messed that up!
Freedom is also freedom from religious control, especially if you do not adhere to that religion!

Lutheran is religion light compared to Catholics. We didn't mess with anyone.

[seta1950]

26. 😮

So ‘ his conservative catholic faith ‘ is served by him aligning with a multiple adulterer assaulter of women and someone who cages children and steals them from their parents, Jesus would be outraged in my opinion .

[patphil]

28. There's always been a big difference between religion and spirituality

Religion is man made. It's invariably founded on spiritual truth, but that truth gets lost over time as the people who run the religion insert their views and/or interpretations into the mix and overwrite the original spiritual message.
Constantine did this to the teachings of Jesus.
King Ashoka did this to the teachings of Buddha
Brigham Young did this to the teachings of Joseph Smith.
Islamic Generals did this to the teachings of Muhammad.
I doubt if there is a single major religion that hasn't been perverted by self-serving, corrupt, power hungry people.
And, of course, religions continue to attract people who use their religion's doctrine as a tool to dominate and control others (Barr's moral order).
Heaven save us from the religious "zealot", especially when they get the power to force their will on others.
William Barr is one of those people.

Spirituality comes from the understanding of, and adherence to, the original message that was given to us from one who was truly enlightened.
It's never exclusive, always inclusive.
It doesn't looks for ways to suppress people, always to lift them up.
It doesn't divide people, always calls to unify them.
Spiritual truth doesn't look to establish a "moral order". It works on a much higher level. It speaks to the heart and the soul, and those who adhere to the message automatically treat each other with love and respect.


Patrick Phillips

[BunnyMcGee]

30. Thank you

This post is a well written explanation I can show my 12 year old son. He's asking questions about morality, etc, and my explanation can be jumbled. Your post can help keep me organized in an explanation.

[Mc Mike]

29. 'Devout' 'faith'.

Rump epitomizes Barr's devout catholic 'values'.

[defacto7]

32. So is he actually a pre Vat II Catholic or is this a new angle

to rally another extremist front? IOW, does he have a history of extreme Catholicism or Catholicism at all?

[Bretton Garcia]

35. Barr is a political, right wing "Catholic"

"Conservative" parts of the Church began to try to co opt Republican, evangelical Protestantism, with the Church's "new evangicalism."

That was taken as a rallying cry by EWTN. The self-appointed, mostly "lay" Catholic network. Whose chief speaker/apologist, (Jimmy Akin?) was long a protestant. In the c. 2010 era of Mother Angelica, "Father" John Corapi, Karl Keating, Patrick Madrid, Fr. Baron (sp?), bishop Chaput.

Here's a bunch of rationalizing apologetics books by these kinds of guys; note the ones that stress Catholic "evangelical"izing:


https://www.ewtnreligiouscatalogue.com/Apologetics-Books

[Mc Mike]

40. Opus Dei.

Barr and Patrick Cipollone, Trump’s White House counsel, have both served on the board of directors of a Washington-based organization staffed by priests from the secretive, ultra-orthodox Catholic sect Opus Dei.

Opus Dei is pre Vatican II, but was strongly empowered by JP II and Ratzinger, in the '80's.

[Bretton Garcia]

41. Yup; partly.

Opus Dei was once just a conspiracy theory. But the organization has been successfully outed. The Bishop of LA (Gomez?) openly says he is from Opus Dei. Some of whose members served on the staff of the Spanish fascist dictator, Gen. Franco.

One problem is their untrained "lay" priests, and countless undercover converts. All dedicated to carrying out their agenda ... under cover, in major government and other jobs.

Worse than the "Knights of Columbus."

"Father" John Corapi of, formerly, EWTN/EWRN, was a former shyster Las Vegas accountant (!). For years, he couldn't find any bishop to acknowledge him as a priest. He eventually found one, if memory serves. But ended up claiming Opus Dei as his "order."

[Bretton Garcia]

42. Is Barr in Opus Dei, secretly?

Quite possibly.

[Permanut]

43. Barr recognizes the importance of religion to American democracy..

The importance of religion in American democracy can be easily illustrated by simply counting the number of time the word "God" appears in the Constitution.