The Watching of ASAH
I know most of y'all probably don't go to some of the other areas of DU where our kind of thinking is dismissed through the usage of any number of derogatory terms. However, I do lurk at some, skimming what's being said, as well as learning about some personal attitudes.
What I find interesting is the difference between how we approach our fellow members and other people (such as non-liberal family members) and how those elsewhere around DU do. For example, I've been called "sanctimonious" for having the audacity of imploring people here to have some compassion for their fellow human beings (usually in regards to capital punishment.) I'm not implying that we are better than our peers here, yet our attitude towards most people sure does seem to be much better. With rare examples, I can't think of us calling those different from us as "crazy" or "deluded", much less mocking, demeaning, belittling and generally being condescending towards those unlike us in thought and belief.
And yet, it's all out there on DU, allowed because it's "not a personal attack" and just part of the "discussion", or simply is labeled as "snark". The idea that a person's feelings may be severely hurt is chalked up as not having a thick enough skin.
There's a thread in one area that has the sole purpose of pointing to the craziest of the "woo", and it's a rather disgusting display of not only intolerance for fellow members but also shows much about the personalities of those participating. This kind of dismissive attitude towards those of a different mind is one of the major reasons I don't post in the Religion forum (the other is that I'm not a "debater" as is almost required of anyone that posts there.)
I suspect the "watchers" of ASAH will go and report this thread to their cohorts and have yet another laugh at our expense. They’re still welcome to participate in our discussions here, so long as it’s not in a disrupting/mocking manner. Thankfully, we don't usually engage them in the same vein 
watchers!
= new reply since forum marked as read
I avoid those parts of DU and the world at large... i am no longer engaging in the brutality that fellow humans seem to think is acceptable in daily discourse. and as far as them talking about me? i could not care less thanks for saying it out loud.
as is my "problem" 
And we'll see what kind of reaction this garners from my "saying it out loud"
I sometimes read the Religion forum, but, as I have pointed out to one of the hosts there, I don't post because I don't want to debate the points presented. I only want to discuss them, but you really can't do that there. How a point is presented, the semantics of your presentation of it, is far more important than the point itself. It's truly a competition there, seemingly of whom or who can be the cleverest 
What I've observed is that they "use" our forum as a kind of "woo mine" to find all those "crazy" things they disagree with or see as fit for attack.
The other interesting observation I've made that those (very few) atheists on this board that I find to be the most respectable are the least likely ones to attack others for their beliefs. All too often, they are also on the receiving end of attacks by their "fellow" atheists for their points of view. Two of those respectable atheists post here, so I'm sure you all know who they are without me calling them out
I wonder what will happen? 
And just mentioning that here is probably enough, unless you think it needs either its own thread or mention in the Prayer and Healing thread? That might be more appropriate
throwing water on a burning witch? 
Some people get off to that, no matter the insults!
so much energy to manage 'right thinking'. how exhausting it must be.
and you're right, engaging it is just validating anger and giving it strength. i feel no need to maintain a sour relationship. i have happier ones to share!
I haven't yet seen a reaction out there yet, though I'm sure they've seen this thread by now. I wonder if any of what we've said here will give them pause, and cause them to ponder their actions...
Nawwww!! 
saying "oh shit, they're on to us"
that we all know exactly which DUer you speak of. He pretty well dominates that forum, and all too often, with the iron fist of "reason". However, I have seen him chagrined by his fellow "right-thinkers" when they've sometimes taken him to task for his ideas, such as regulating the Internet. I seem to recall that some of them balked at that as much as we would.
And all these aspects we discerned here, such as "right-thinking", "cleverness", "control", are all simply parts of the whole, the Fear inherent in their attitudes and postings. I don't know if it's a simple "fear of the unknown" or just of being even slightly "out of control" but it certainly guides and tempers all of their actions and reactions. I rarely see them hold themselves back, or even step back, and attempt to see the whole picture. They certainly can't seem to hold back in a "good" debate of semantics
This group is so welcoming & accepting. I just can't imagine what it would be like to live with a mind so small & narrow, like those who dismiss what we post here as "woo" or vehemently insist that there is no God/Higher Power simply because there isn't enough "proof" for THEM (and you know, there never will be enough proof).
I can guess which group you're talking about. One of them likes to stalk me around DU & post crap responses....she's a vindictive bully who attacks others "just because", then plays the victim card, posting GBCW stuff when people wise up to her, then sneaks back to DU. God I hate that shit.
But I like this group. I will admit, some of the stuff posted here sounds "far out" to me, but if it works for the people who post it, who am I to argue?
I've got enough weird ideas of my own (like the little people hiding stuff from me until I ask the cats where it is....I guess they're scared of the cats or something.....)
eta: I remember about 2 years ago, the History Channel had a program on the Shroud of Turin. Someone posted about it in GD or the Lounge (which is how I found out about it) & asked if anyone else was going to watch it because they wanted to discuss it & see if the science & methods used held up. (I think it was called "The Face of Jesus" or something like that.)
O.M.F.G. you would not believe the flamewar that erupted over that! Just the *idea* that people wanted to *discuss* the Shroud (not advocate that it is what it is claimed to be or isn't, just discuss the findings, which were pretty amazing) was too much for that crowd. Unfortunately, in the end, no one was able to discuss what we saw at all, thanks to the narrow-minded "scientific" crowd.
between this group and those "counter" to us. They say the same in their TOS/SOP or whatever alphabet-soup acronym it's called, but it comes across as nothing more than lip-service. It's there because it's required to be there, not because they have to adhere to its principles.
I'm sorry that you have one of them stalking you 
I can only think of one instance where that happened here, and their post was deleted before I had a chance to see it (I was followed back here from a Lounge thread, again on the topic of "wu".)
I readily admit that some of the stuff in which I believe is not only "out there" but downright bizarre! At the same time, I have no trouble analyzing it and laughing at myself (or with myself?) I am also "using" this wealth of weirdness in our world as fodder for story ideas, or plot points in my stories. They don't get mocked, but they do get 'twisted' in ways to make them either good or bad or whatever. The majority of the reading public hasn't heard of much of the stuff we read, so I can introduce them to all these bizarro things without doing do in a mocking manner. I'll probably buy all of Delores Cannon's books soon so I have a literal encyclopedia of weirdness to use in fictional settings
I will tell you that if I had been in on that Shroud discussion I'd likely have announced that all those wishing to fight would go on ignore so as to whittle down the thread to only those willing to have an actual discussion versus a fight. That's really about the only way to have a discussion anymore. Without looking up the full dictionary and etymological definition of "discussion" my personal definition is that when people have a discussion, two or more people walk away from it having learned something. Whereas my definition of "discussion" on DU is it's all about winning the debate. The point is pointless and moot
I know whereof you speak K, and after my initial flare of anger over their derision and mockery, I just find the whole thing (the groups, the "attack pack" who cruise larger forums like Religion and Health, the attitudes, the personalities, the focus on hating others) immensely sad.
Fear underlies it all--fear of not having all the answers, fear that what they've believed in all their lives might not be the whole truth, fear of being (omg omg omg) WRONG. They desire control in all aspect of their lives, and when they don't have it (imagine, someone out there might think differently!) they lash out and try to control them, when instead they should be trying to figure out why someone else's differing opinion bothers them so much.
It is very ironic that members of DU (these people in question included) pride themselves on being open-minded and tolerant liberals. I don't think these folks would like anyone to point out that they have more in common with the conservatives they hate so very much than they'd like to admit!
What also makes me sad is that certain groups hang together on the slimmest of premises--hatred of others. I'm glad our little corner of the world is more supportive.
and titled (I think) "Do you ever get the feeling that you're being watched?" with some rofl smileys in the body. Of course, I misinterpreted it to mean being watched by our cats, and not other DU groups until I read more
Nothing has changed in the years between, and I don't really expect them to change after this. I'll likely ruffle some feathers, but so far, no PMs from the "offended".
I was thinking about their use of the evangelical phrase I mentioned above that they've commandeered to "Attack the belief, not the believer." As I have observed their posts and reactions over the years, they are no more accepting of the actual phrase "Hate the sin, not the sinner" than they are of all the vitriol lobbed against them for being unbelievers. They seem to be of the mindset that you can actually detach the ideology from a person without all that vitriol of their own not affecting the believer. There is no "fine line" between the two. The beliefs of a believer are as attached to that person as the mind is attached to the brain. And they either don't get that part, or willfully dismiss it in order to have the "right" to attack a belief without consequences. Not gonna happen
I never would have guessed that from their comments. It's cool, though
I don't know what that means. I was an Episcopalian, anyway
because you know how the Baptist rail on & on about the evils of drinking & dancing & gambling....
well there are still some places that sell booze & lottery tickets out the back door of the establishment to those who publicly rant against such things.
Hence, back-door Baptists
It's old, maybe you've heard it.
"Know why Baptists don't Do IT standing up?"
They don't want anyone to think they're dancing!"
rim shot.
(****I heard that while growing up in Tejas)
We were occasional Methodists.
and a Pentecostal manager (man) would stand in front of the aisle and preach against it as a sin while he still sold it in the store he managed. I simply call this type of man a hypocrite. This was in southern Illonios.
So, back on the subject of back door Baptists. I hope they can iron this out because my little sister is a Baptist and I sure do hope well for her!
about astrology; and that really blows their mind. But, they HAVE to have their chart read.
I just laugh 
I'm glad you're not being stalked anymore and that you did learn to just "let it go". It's a concept we all strive for, and learn in some form or another. ASAH is certainly a group to help us all learn such lessons
And your term "science snobbery" hits home, too. I don't know how many times I've seen them bemoan the state of science and math education in this country, and that's fine. I agree it should be stronger.
However, the moment one of us tries to talk about some bit of science we've either read about or seen on TV, woe be to us if we use a single scientific term in the "wrong" way. There's never any real attempt at educating, either, as in "calmly, with the intent to educate as a teacher or instructor would." All too often, it seems to be "you're an idiot for even having a point of view about a subject of science without being a Scientist." Right.
They need to figure out whether they want people to try to understand and learn about science, or that they don't want it. Can't have it both ways, y'all
because the Ancients said that moon shone light instead of reflecting it. 
I said I thought he was asking too much from a pre-literate, nomadic culture, expecting them to "know" scientific concepts that weren't discovered for thousands of years, but, nah. I was an idiot for believing in God.
This in a post by an atheist asking how those of us who believe in God & post on DU reconcile Genesis with Evolution.
I saw that episode with the ...spock/lizard rock paper scissors bit for the first time the other day!
It's really hard for somebody to comprehend the kind of stuff we're talking about if they have never experienced it.
It's even been hard for me at times, and I've been open to this type of thing for as long as I can remember.
Some of you will remember when my cat Bitsey crossed over and then three weeks later, one of us (Cleita) saw her in some photographs I posted here. I posted the photographs because we were talking northeaster' weather or some such thing, but there she was. It wasn't just in one photograph, either. She appeared in many photographs, probably as many as around 14.
Now, looking back on that, I remember thinking how the experience of "seeing" a ghost (and one who was photographed, no less) was one thing and just believing in it intellectually is quite another.
Now, think of where they're coming from. They don't even believe in ghosts intellectually. It's not hard to see why they don't get it at all, not even close.
Cher
That's the easy part
But what I don't get is why they have this inherent need to be mean? What do they get out of that? Some simple self-satisfaction that they hurt someone's feelings? Do they actually like being seen as bullies? (We know they would never admit to being bullies, much less using the same tactics.)
Of course, I'm not saying they all are like this. As I stated above, it seems to only be DU atheists that act this way, with a select few that don't and I actually call friends. All of the atheists I've known in "real life" were nice people, and never out to deride or belittle my beliefs. They often wanted do know what I believed, and I'd tell them, but I'd also say that I didn't expect them to believe a word of it. They are my beliefs, and not those of anyone else. I expect them to be perceived as weird, and I'm fine with that. But, I refuse to engage with anyone that feels the need to take them apart, with little respect for how it makes me feel. They won't get that satisfaction from me
I'm going to have to do some reading. I know so very little about Buddhism and the idea of Right Speech is intriguing. It's also an excellent concept to have for governing one's interaction with people. It may not help with the stubborn (as I'm sure you're well aware living in East Texas) but all you can do is try, and hope they learn by osmosis
I've seen two threads in Religion directly related to threads here. The one on Trayvon, and this one, and both of them are the epitome of derision for ideas contrary to their own.
Sending more Light and Love to our watchers!
watchers. Now you have gone and done it!!!!
You have fed that posters delusion that people actually read and are interested in their posts!!!! LOL! 
And I love Rick's method of talking about this stuff, yet never, ever engaging them in the discussion, since that's exactly what they want. Withholding participation aggravates them even more
Yep! Thats our Rick a smart slippery one!
