Did anyone else find themselves praying night and day for DEMs to hold onto our Democracy?

[TigressDem]

I feel like God has answered that prayer.

STILL much work to go, but at least we have a chance.


IF we keep both HOUSE and SENATE, we can actually get VOTING RIGHTS restored and tRUMP in prison.


THEN ON TO 2024.

[NoRethugFriends]

1. Any idea why god wasn't interested in Wisconsin or Florida or Texas?

[TigressDem]

4. Wisconsin CAN get better, but we retained GOV Veto power.

A lot of what happens in life is by our choices, free will.

MY MAIN POINT is that we need to RETAIN DEMOCRACY and getting those of the MAGA persuasion out of power is the highest priority because WE MUST retain our VOTING RIGHTS or we are not a Democracy.

Winning EVERY election is more of a MAGA thing. I don't expect to ALWAYS win, but I want the chance to ALWAYS be able to put in my vote and get it counted.

THAT is what I feel got preserved.

My faith allowed me to continue to hope and go through the daily grind while seeing nearly impossible odds.

This IS the Christian thread, so if you don't like it, you don't have to read it. YOU DO HAVE FREE WILL.

https://ballotpedia.org/Party_control_of_Wisconsin_state_government

[TigressDem]

8. Florida seems to have been lost a long time ago. BUT with DeSantis linked to tRump......

THINGS may begin to change.

DeSantis has been SELECTING people who were already elected.

tRUMP just outed DeSantis for election fraud.

IRONICALLY, the WORSE it gets, the more likely people are to rise up and fight back.

I think it will take the courts to change Florida and I believe I heard we are going to add more Supreme Court Justices to get a balance back so it isn't a rubber stamp for Rethuglican policy.



https://ballotpedia.org/Party_control_of_Florida_state_government

[TigressDem]

12. AND in Texas, MAGA now has 2 meanings.

Abbot may have "won" but he better listen to the people. He's being held accountable now.

Beto turned a LOT of Repugs away from the insanity of the OLD MAGA and ElectionDeniers

SO PROGRESS WAS MADE. EVEN in Texas.

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/08/11/mothers-against-greg-abbott-texas/

[TomSlick]

22. The short version is that we lack the capacity to judge God's actions.

This is a Group for Christian Liberals and Progressive people of faith. I assume that your response was in the spirit of a sincere seeker, so I'll give it my best shot.

None of us has a good answer for why bad things happen. Nevertheless, the members of this group trust that God has a plan which will ultimately lead to good. "We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." (Romans 8:28 (NIV)).

I am not generally fond of "praise music" but there is no exception - there's always an exception.

God is too wise to be mistaken.
God is too good to be unkind.
So when you don't understand,
When don't see His plan,
When you can't trace His hand,
Trust His Heart.

Trust His Heart, Babbie Mason (2001)

[NoRethugFriends]

23. yes, Holocaust led to a lot of good

[TomSlick]

24. Are you sure you are posting in the correct group?

In DU, groups are different than forums. This is a group for Christian liberals. It is not intended as a place to debate the merits of faith. The Group's Statement of Purpose states: "A group for Christians and Christian-friendly persons who would like to have an open discussion about our faith and its role in the world around us. Our group will provide a safe haven for discussion and support, and find ways to express our beliefs in positive, non-threatening ways."

Christian liberals are despised by conservative Christians and mocked by non-Christian liberals. This group is one of the few places that Christian liberals can discuss issues important to us and support each other. Common courtesy requires that you abide by the rules of any group when posting in that group.

[ShazzieB]

27. Are you aware of where you are posting?

If not, please read the following:

"This is a group, not a forum. Groups often serve as safe havens for members who share similar interests and viewpoints."
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1222

Christian Liberals & Progressive People of Faith (Group): About This Group

Statement of Purpose
A group for Christians and Christian-friendly persons who would like to have an open discussion about our faith and its role in the world around us. Our group will provide a safe haven for discussion and support, and find ways to express our beliefs in positive, non-threatening ways.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=about&forum=1222

[NoRethugFriends]

28. ok. shame you're not open minded enough to support your positions.

By the way I didn't go hunting in your group. It appeared in latest breaking news, which makes no sense at all.

[TigressDem]

30. ALL posts are Latest Threads when first posted. NOT Latest Breaking News. Look at the tabs.

But it's ok.

You know I sometimes go to the Atheist Threads and I try to behave myself. I just ask for a bit of respect.

You do you. I do me kind of thing and mostly you guys do.


But you guys don't want us preaching at you over there and over here just constantly dropping bombs on us isn't helpful.


I have had great conversations with Pagans, Druids, Wiccans even one actual Satanic Warlock. I travel in groups that don't discriminate against someone's religious or non-religious stance. Some I met at work too.

People are people and I love the variety I find on DU.

But sometimes, I would like to talk to people about my faith without having to defend every single point.


I am capable of defending my positions though. When DU got bonked, I lost my record of old posts. I was here in the GW years.

[NoRethugFriends]

34. Sorry, I meant latest posts.

[TigressDem]

35. That's OK

Lot's of times I feel that someone challenging me to think about my faith actually makes it stronger.

I believe in God and science and common sense.

Yes, I realize that makes me an odd bird.


You've heard speculation about the "God particle" I'm guessing.

I think that whatever is responsible for this universe and US in it, could be somehow a force for Good that still monitors US.

It COULD be all random and if in the end that is true, all I have done is make myself a little less stressed about things and tried to follow a good moral example.

For me it's still a good personal choice and I get it if others think I'm silly playing with my imaginary friend. Everyone has their faults or idiosyncrasies, but at the moment, it's still a free country. I'm entitled to mine and everyone else theirs.


Ya' know?

[ShazzieB]

26. Are you aware of where you are posting?

"This is a group, not a forum. Groups often serve as safe havens for members who share similar interests and viewpoints."
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1222

Christian Liberals & Progressive People of Faith (Group): About This Group

Statement of Purpose
A group for Christians and Christian-friendly persons who would like to have an open discussion about our faith and its role in the world around us. Our group will provide a safe haven for discussion and support, and find ways to express our beliefs in positive, non-threatening ways.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=about&forum=1222

[ItsjustMe]

2. Why did God not answer the Republicans prayers

[TigressDem]

7. I'm sure He did in some cases, but parents don't always give kids what they want, neither does God.

Kids might want to eat only candy all day long, but a parent knows that isn't healthy, so kids don't get that from a loving parent.

AND when one prays to God for ONLY SELFISH needs or to put others DOWN, that isn't a sincere prayer.

MOST of the time I think about God as having a larger viewpoint and knowing a tad bit more than I ever could about how it all fits together.

Honestly, I will pray, "THY will be done, but if you're taking suggestions....."


AND we on Earth are the hands and feet of God in action. Being a Christian as I read it, is about keeping your own nose clean and leaving judgement up to God. Being there for others and doing what you can to make the World a better place.


SO a lot of my respect goes to every person who put themselves in the line of fire.

EVERY DEMOCRATIC Candidate who supports our rights to vote. (DINOs working against us don't count)

EVERY Poll Worker who has faced the fact or possibility of death threats and getting belittled for doing the hands on work of DEMOCRACY.

EVERY DEM who voted.

EVERY DEM who door knocked.

EVERY DEM who donated to keep our candidates in the races.

EVERY DEM who shouted our message from the rooftops or social media.


HARD TIMES SUCK.

BUT character is built during these kinds of trying circumstances and people can become the best version of themselves.


FUNNY. I never look at my own stats.

I don't post a lot, but I did recently have the hope to build bridges between Christian and the A&A's.

I can't control how you guys react, but I try to simply plead for basic respect of each other.

MAYBE some day I will actually be heard in that light.

[summer_in_TX]

29. God doesn't answer prayers contrary to the will of God.

Christian Nationalists pray selfishly for things harmful to others. They prayed for Obama to die, for instance. Their hearts are not aligned with that of God.

Those who pray humbly and sincerely for the benefit of good in the world often see our prayers answered in whole or in part.

I certainly prayed urgently and earnestly for democracy to survive and for the forces of authoritarianism to be defeated. It is evident to me that God favors a system of government that grants freedom of expression, of worship, of the press to the people, that protects them from being thrown into prison for speech and thought. The trajectory of American history to grant more freedoms to vote to formerly excluded races is another. We've survived authoritarian movements in the 1930s and now as well as a civil war.

"The arc of the moral universe is long. But it bends toward justice."

[TigressDem]

31. EXACTLY

Wolf in sheep's clothing. Still a wolf. Still up to no good.


But for those of us who believe, even when it seems like the whole world has lost it's mind, we have the faith that there is SOME way back if we keep putting one foot in front of the other. Doing our part and watching for what the next correct action is.

[summer_in_TX]

38. Definitely.

Jesus said we would recognize his followers by the fruits of the Spirit. They would exhibit joy, peace, love, goodness, kindness, patience, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control.

Both Obamas and the Bidens certainly show those qualities. The so-called Christians who were ugly to them and prayed for harm to come to them.

They exhibited the opposite to the fruits of the spirit: joylessness / dissatisfaction, strife / discord, animosity / hatred, wickedness / corruption, intolerance / maliciousness, intractability /frustration, harshness / brutality, disloyalty / treachery, instability / rashness

They sound like spiritual relatives of Donald J. Trump.

[TigressDem]

41. Right. Whose agenda are they following? Not God's

Either man's or worse.

Humans may be selfish, but there is one who wants all of US out of the picture.

Someone jealous the day we were created.

[summer_in_TX]

42. When there's not a single fruit of the Spirit in their lives, I think

it fairly safe to discern that the agenda isn't that of man, even if we aren't supposed to judge. I don't consider discernment the same as judging though.

The Adversary was a murderer from the beginning.

[Freddie]

3. Lots to be thankful for in church this morning

[TigressDem]

9. YES there is.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

5. I am still praying for Dems to win seats still outstanding. 🙏

[TigressDem]

10. I think constant prayer is going to be the new norm for me.

Our world is on fire, and we need 100 years of miracles to get ourselves back on track.

[tanyev]

6. Yes, and I will share something here I hesitate to put in General Discussion.

Tuesday morning, Election Day, as I left for work, there was a frikkin' bald eagle IN MY YARD.

I live in a large suburb north of Dallas. I have a very small yard. The urban sprawl extends way beyond us, although there is a golf course not too far away and one large corner field not too far away that remains undeveloped. Still. I've lived here over 20 years and never seen a bald eagle in the neighborhood.

I wasn't even sure what it was at first. My car was in the garage, so I got in and backed out of the driveway into the alley. As I pulled out past the trash/recycle bins, I saw something out of the corner of my eye in the small strip of grass between my husband's car and the fence. Something about the size/color/texture told me it wasn't a cat or dog so I backed up to see what the heck it was. When I got far enough back to see it clearly, I realized the mid-sized brown thing had a white head and it was a very large bird of prey. He was looking right at me with a "What are you looking at?" attitude.

I took off for work thinking, "Was that an eagle? Could that possibly be a bald eagle?" So I went straight to Google once I got to work and searched for birds of prey in my location. I scrolled through pictures of all the hawks--nope, nope, nope--and then I searched eagles. Bingo. There have been a few bald eagle sightings in my area and that's definitely what I saw.

Was it a sign? I hoped it was a sign. I've been praying non-stop not even for Dems to win, but simply for truth and justice to prevail in this country. All I know is after I saw that eagle I felt much better about how the day would go and so far that hope has been holding.

[TigressDem]

11. OMG It's not just me.

All my life I have had birds show up during my darkest moments.

A dove on my neighbor's lawn one New Year's Eve when everything that could go wrong did go wrong, but I still had to be up and on the Rose Parade route at 5am. My neighbors (kids younger than me, siblings of my friends) laughing at me while I was pushing my car up the driveway. It had died just short of the final goal.

Being older I grouched at them, "Are you going to laugh or help?" They did both. I thanked them for their help and then sighed and looked over at my neighbor's lawn. There was a white dove calmly sitting in the middle of the sea of green. I was able to take the hint that God would get me through it and got a little sleep and made my way the next morning.

Over the past few years I have been seeing an Eagle during crushing moments when I am almost ready to give up.

On the top of the telephone pole in my alley. My husband saw it too and I took a picture.

Flying above me on my way too or from work and when I've been going to my car shopping.

Often when I am expressing doubt or wishing I had a stronger faith.



I have thought of going to our local Indian church and seeking the opinion of an elder there, since having a spirit guide like that is part of their belief system. Looking for a way to honor this gift.

[tanyev]

14. Cool. I can't say I've had anything like that happen before,

which made this all the more remarkable. I’m not one who has my cell phone within reach all the time, so it never dawned on me to get a picture or a video. I wish I had—it was amazing seeing a bird like that just a few feet away from me.

[TigressDem]

18. COVID did bring a lot more of the wild animals into cities.

So it's partly just coincidence that when I am at that low point, and look up, odds are better that I will see one.

AND Eagles are territorial, so once you have seen one, it's possible you might see it again.

That is the factual, scientific reason.


BUT I am glad even in this modern world something natural like that could get through to me in the midst of all my angst.


Whatever the reason, it's wonderful.

[wnylib]

13. I don't pray for a specific party.

Even in prayers, I am mindful of the dangers of political parties assuming to have God on their side.

But I do pray (and did pray prior to the election) for results that give the balance of national power to leaders who are just, caring, have integrity, and who seek the best for ALL the people.

[TigressDem]

16. I don't either. But DEMOCRACY is MORE than just DEMS it's the ability of the PEOPLE to self govern.

I have been praying to eliminate the hate, eliminate the lies and the lying liars that tell them and bring consequences to those who would abuse the power of faith to try and ensnare, enslave and wreak havoc upon the nation for the sake of the rich and powerful.

I pray for strength for all who would support DEMOCRACY and the RULE OF LAW and the Separation of Church and State.


Even Jesus said, "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to GOD what is GOD's"

[wnylib]

19. I think that the qualities of leadership

that I mentioned in my post pretty much covers what you said.

[TigressDem]

20. Great leaders are awesome and what you say is true.

However, at this point, it's also about correcting the errors in the system.

So those who have been destructive need to be called out and their destructive behaviors need to get consequences.


What I like about DEMs who are Christians is that they will go to God in Prayer and Thank God for good that happens and pray for strength in the midst of chaos, but they show up as "personal Christians" not "Christian Nationalists" trying to push their will on others.

[wnylib]

25. At my adult ed class at church Sunday morning,

we got into a discussion of making decisions and actions based on moral values and principles while at the same time preserving the first amendment on separating church and state. It's a fine line to walk, but essential to maintaining a democracy with freedom of religion for everyone and avoiding the tyranny of state religions. So, on moral principle, you look for sincere candidates of integrity and reject the ones who lie and especially those who use religion for personal gain and power.

Later, during the church service, as the pastor led common prayers, she paused for people to name something privately in their minds that they are grateful for. I immediately thought of the overall outcome of the elections and their significance for the demise of lying, bullying politics.

[TigressDem]

32. That is so cool.

There are churches that have come together to denounce Christian Nationalism.

God gave US free will, so to put the Government in position of forcing US to do His Will is against God's Will.

I do go onto the Atheist board sometimes just to be the Christian who ISN'T pushing on them to change, who accepts them as they are and who believes that those who force God on anyone are in the very least misguided and at the worst doing the work of someone OTHER than GOD.

These creeps promoting HATE in GOD'S name have driven more people FROM Christianity than the pedophile scandal drove people from the Catholic church.

Their horrible plan to take over the country makes people HATE ALL Christians on general grounds of grouping US together.

So when it comes to choosing Christian Nationalists or honest Atheists, I'd hang with the Atheists. At least they are honest.

Christian Nationalists are lying to themselves if they think God supports their crazed fascism. If they can't even tell themselves the truth, they are lost. I will pray for them, but trying to talk sense to them is harder than having discussions with someone who doesn't believe, but thinks whatever I do in a free country is my right.

Ya' know?

[Qutzupalotl]

15. I prayed for compassion among people

thinking that would make people vote more Democratic without having to be so specific.

I believe there is a noosphere of our thoughts, surrounding our planet like an atmosphere, and we can “seed” it with thoughts we want to see manifested. Individually, the effect is nil, but thousands of people are adding positive, uplifting thoughts that can help ameliorate some of the hatefulness that is so rampant of late.

I prayed for wisdom in all world leaders, especially our president and VP, but also Zelenskyy and Putin. Let them all be guided by wisdom. Let the war in Ukraine come to an end swiftly.

I prayed for justice, but not in a retributive way, only due punishment, nothing more. I believe wishing harm on others can have a rebound effect, so I don't pray for anything I wouldn't wish on myself. Just what is deserved.

[TigressDem]

17. That is a good head space.

However, like Jesus in the Temple, I get PISSED when people desecrate a space and feign holiness when all they are doing is making money off using God's name.


When someone says we should "hate in God's name" I refuse. To me when they condone violence against Blacks, Gays and Jews that is asking me to HATE the victim and worship the offenders because they have the power of a badge or skin color.

I stand in the space that GOD IS LOVE so to hate in His Name is completely going against God's will.

"Love one another as I have loved you" is a pretty clear directive.


I pray a LOT for those who have been deceived by the MAGAs will see the truth and be able to free themselves from this sickness.


It took me some time to forgive W and somehow I found a way to forgive (without condoning) Hitler when I learned how he had been molded as a child into his insane world view. I forgave the child who was molded. That's as far as I could go.

I am trying to find any scrap of compassion for tRump, but he hasn't ASKED for forgiveness and continues in his efforts to destroy everything around him that doesn't bow and scrape to him.


Maybe when he's dead and gone my ire will cool.


I'm not perfect by any shape or form and mostly I DO hate only the SIN and not the SINNER, but tRUMP is so ACTIVELY being abusive, it's hard to separate the two.

[TomSlick]

21. I'm not into petitionary prayer. I simply don't think I'm smart enough to give God advice.

My prayer today is one of thanksgiving.

[TigressDem]

33. Yeah, God isn't a short order cook.

Up thread this is how I describe my basic attitude....


MOST of the time I think about God as having a larger viewpoint and knowing a tad bit more than I ever could about how it all fits together.

Honestly, I will pray, "THY will be done, but if you're taking suggestions....."


AND we on Earth are the hands and feet of God in action. Being a Christian as I read it, is about keeping your own nose clean and leaving judgement up to God. Being there for others and doing what you can to make the World a better place.

[TomSlick]

36. Your position is consistent with the plan language of Jesus' teaching, mine takes mental gymnastics.

Jesus taught us to pray "give us this day our daily bread." I cannot argue that we should not pray for our needs. I read "give us this day our daily bread" as a statement of faith that the Father will provide for our needs. (See, Matthew 6:25 to 34.)

Jesus prayed in Gethsemane that he would be spared the cup of the coming crucifixion but added "they will be done." I find that prayer odd because Jesus clearly knew what was coming and that it was part of the Father's plan. (I also don't know who heard the prayer to record it in the Gospels.)

I prefer to trust that the Father will do what is best for me consistent with his plan but I certainly cannot criticize your approach. We are each responsible to work out our faith for ourselves with fear and trembling - a recognition that we are simply not smart enough to know all the answers.

[TigressDem]

37. Typically prayer is for the person doing the praying, so whatever works.

When I think of Jesus in the garden, asking for the cup to pass but accepting the Will of God, to me it is Jesus showing us that no matter how hard something is that we face, no matter how much our human side wants to run screaming from the building, we can make the tough choice and God will get us through it.

He was showing Himself to be on par with us, not above us, subservient to the Will of God just as we are. In that crazy moment, being an example of how to trust even when things look horrendously out of whack.

AND that we can ALWAYS "ask" as long as we are willing to understand and accept the answer may be "NO."


I think sometimes God puts me in a situation where he wants me to express my opinion to HIM about what I want, just so He can show me that it is ok to ask Him for something. And to let me know that it is ok to have my wants met as well as my needs.

[TomSlick]

39. As I say, your position is clearly in line with the plan language of Jesus' teachings.

“Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you." My problem is that mere humans ask for things that the loving Father ought not - and will not - give them.

In typical lawyer fashion, I'm probably over-thinking things.

[TigressDem]

40. You do the lawyer thing, I am an unpublished Dean Koonz type processor.

So sometimes I run scenarios in my head of "if I could be some super hero for God and fix it all, what would I do?"

It's stress relief and not a prayer. Watch too many super hero movies.

But by thinking about just getting the very top items I thought, "What if God decided that the whole 'Lucifer thing' is done now"?

Based on a conversation with an agnostic/atheist leaning co-worker who basically said that Lucifer kept God from killing off humanity so he's not all that bad of a guy.

So what if having Lucifer tempt humans right off the bat was part of "showing God that humans weren't worthy of His trust or time" but over time Lucifer spins it that he's only doing what needs to be done. God knows better but really wants Lucifer to turn himself around and is giving him time to change?

Then as a prophet or whatever I am able to broker this deal that Lucifer is forced to give up his spirit of rebellion and sees what he's actually done and rolls back his lies etc like some reboot of humanity. And he sees God again as he did when the world was young and then winks out of existence and we get to work repairing what's left of US without the lies.

Some people, like tRump, are too damaged and are given a simple cease to exist clause like Lucifer and make the world a better place by leaving it. The rest of US learn to deal.


BUT that is complete fantasy. The only thing it does for me is give me an idea that God may have a lot invested in ALL of US and is doing what He can to see the best result for everyone that will accept it.


I don't pray to actually have all that power, and I'm glad it's actually in God's hands and not mine.


It's just my way of over thinking it.

[summer_in_TX]

43. If you know God's character and trust it, then it becomes easier

to pray things that align with God's will, for justice, mercy, alleviation of sickness, freedom from addiction and restoration of relationships, poverty, healing, and so forth. Democracy delivers more of those things than autocracy does. As imperfect as it is, justice and mercy are far more likely in a democracy than a dictatorship.

It seems to me that praying for the things we saw Jesus caring about is just doing as Jesus would do. Prayer is powerful. Even

"Thy will be done," is a good one to get started on. I like the prayer circle in my adult Sunday small group, because I have a limited memory, but by the time we go around the circle collective prayers have meant I've prayed for many more that I'd remembered on my own and people and situations I really want to pray for. We also do a weekly prayer journal. Helps us keep needs in mind throughout the week.

I don't think the words matter, but any time we yearn over someone hurting or a broken situation, we are praying wordlessly, but it's heart-felt. I suspect you pray more often than you think you do when that type of prayer is included.

[TigressDem]

44. Right?

Yeah, I think many days I am in nearly "CONSTANT PRAYER" if internally reaching out, and saying Jesus, Mary, Joseph... (grew up Catholic) in my mind the whole ride to work, when I'm at lunch, looking out at nice scenery, worrying about my job or my son and when going to sleep or waking in the middle of the night count. I reach out, but I don't know what to say, just yearn that something better can happen or that I am grateful.

Prayer Journal is a good idea. Writing always helps me clarify my thoughts. Thanks.