Paintings from 65,000 yrs ago attributed to Neanderthal

[Judi Lynn]

Found in south of Spain; confirmed by new study
03 AUGUST, 17:32

(ANSAmed) - MADRID, 03 AGO - The oldest cave paintings currently known were created by the Neanderthal species, which is closely linked to Homo sapiens, according to a new scientific study published Tuesday in the journal PNAS.

The hypothesis that Neanderthal had painted before modern human beings was made in 2018 in a study on paintings at three archaeological sites in Spain.

However, the thesis was contested by part of the scientific community, with the argument that the paintings may have been stains of natural origin and not the work of humans.

The study published Tuesday, carried out by a team of international experts and reported in various media outlets, claims that more detailed surveys and analyses on the red-coloured paintings of one of these three archaeological sites, Cueva de Ardales cave in Andalusia, confirm the first hypothesis, that the paintings were made by Neanderthal at least 64,800 years ago, therefore at least 20,000 years before Homo sapiens was present in Europe.

More:
https://www.ansamed.info/ansamed/en/news/sections/generalnews/2021/08/03/paintings-from-65000-yrs-ago-attributed-to-neanderthal_5b28e44f-ab60-4ce2-8536-dabe8f525806.html?idPhoto=1

[Haggard Celine]

1. I hope they find out definitively what the Neanderthals were capable of.

I've read some ideas that they were born with certain necessary knowledge about how to care for oneself and other knowledge about life in the same way that many animals are. In contrast our species has to be taught practically everything we know. Most people have at least a small amount of Neanderthal or Denisovan DNA, and it would also be interesting to know exactly how that DNA contributes to our mind and our sense of being. It would be hard to determine all of that, I imagine, so we may never know these things.

[mopinko]

3. people are starting to look harder at this. i have a fairly high %.

i'd settle for knowing how it affects our bodies. there is some work on a connection to autoimmune disease. this makes much sense to me. it's not hard to imagine that the body might attack that bit of alien dna when conditions are right.
it's all over my family, and it mostly affects the gingers. hmmmm.

[Haggard Celine]

4. I've never had a DNA test, so I don't know how much I have.

My mother had one done and they told her that she had a gene that they couldn't identify. Must be from an alien abduction, I said. Anyway, I think there's probably plenty of Neanderthal in my genes because there are lots of blondes and red heads in my family. I've read before somewhere that there's a tie-in with people with light hair and skin, so you're probably right. Don't know about blue eyes, but that would be interesting to know. I need to get a DNA test when I can afford it. I've always thought heredity and genetics were fascinating subjects.

[mopinko]

5. they arent that expensive any more.

they run specials regularly. i've seen it as cheap as $40.
the companies want your data. they dont make anything on the tests, i dont think.

[Haggard Celine]

6. Yeah, they do want your data.

That's another reason I've refrained from doing it. Of course, somebody has my mother's data now, so they could make some inferences about what my test would look like. I'm a bit paranoid about it, frankly. I guess I shouldn't be. They already know just about everything about me; they have all my data.

I'm glad it's not prohibitively expensive to take the test now. I'll get around to it eventually. There's no such thing as privacy anymore, anyway. And curiosity will probably get the better of me.

[mopinko]

7. i look at it this way-

none of this science exists w/o a good database.
the better the data, the better the science.
be the data. help the scientists.

23/me is what i did. yes, they are getting paid by drug companies to use my data. my many surveys i've taken there, too. you know what that means?
better drugs.
like i said, my family has a kink in our genes. they cant find it if i dont share.
i got a lot of great info in return.

including a couple cousins in ireland. hope to meet them in the near future.
one was an adoptee. she had no one, now she has me and my 100 strong family.

worth the $50.

[Haggard Celine]

8. You have a great attitude about it.

And you're right, the data helps them make better products that will make our lives better. I tend to dwell on the negative aspects of a situation. Sometimes that makes it hard for me to do anything because I'm afraid of making a mistake. I'll see if I can look at it like you do. Thanks for your perspective!

[mopinko]

9. it's the nerd view.

glad to help.

[Random Boomer]

10. That sounds really dodgy

Too many scientists are invested in believing that humans are special, unique and radically different from "animals." Any attempt to paint Neanderthals as more animalistic reeks of desperation to keep humans in a separate sacred category.

Given that we share 99.7% of our DNA with Neanderthals, we are much more alike than different: reliant on the same base instincts and capable of learning vast amounts of new behaviors. We are both sub-species of the same hominid line, no matter how much that kinship may unsettle certain people to contemplate.

[Haggard Celine]

11. 'I didn't mean to imply that I think Neanderthals were 'dumb animals.'

I'm pretty sure I have some Neanderthal DNA like most Caucasian people do, and I'm not ashamed of that.

I don't think it would have been a bad thing for the Neanderthals to have something like a racial memory that, in a way, informed them of certain skills at birth. On the contrary, I think it would have been good for the species' survival.

Maybe the patterns and feelings and parts of experiences in our racial memories are just a clue of what the Neanderthals possessed. Maybe we could be able to access ours one day, sort of like we do in dreams or taking hallucinogenic drugs, but with study and experimentation instead.

I know this is odd, and I'm not explaining myself very well with my limited vocabulary; I just wanted to let you know that I don't think the Neanderthals were 'lower' animals than we are. I just want to learn as much about them as we can, learn how they were different, and see the similarities.

[Random Boomer]

12. That is nothing more than fanciful speculation

There is no evidence that Neanderthals had a "racial memory" that humans are lacking. You might as well speculate that they could levitate or talk to animals, or that they could fart rainbows.

There is so much we don't know about them, that we can't possibly know because the physical record from fossils is so limited. But that doesn't give us carte blanche to just make stuff up about them.

And again, we share 99.7% of our DNA with Neanderthals, so they are basically just a different flavor of human. You're not likely to find any radical differences, especially since we could interbreed. If they had racial memory (whatever the hell that would even be), most likely we would, too. So it would most appropriately be a speculation about hominids, not specifically about Neanderthals.

[AllaN01Bear]

2. friend of mine felt that modern hoomans and neos interbrede.

first a article on old trig and now this , my head hurts in a good way.