I've lived in five Asian countries. Christ do I hate the CCP with ever fiber of my being.

[AZLD4Candidate]

[claudette]

1. What

is the CCP?

[AZLD4Candidate]

5. Chinese Communist Party.

[claudette]

8. Thanks

I should have known that.

[Joinfortmill]

2. 👍

[prodigitalson]

3. No organization in history has lifted more people out of poverty

than the CCP.

[AZLD4Candidate]

4. Come here to China and live under it for a while. You'll change your tune fast.

It's now illegal to report or photograph poverty or homelessness in China. You can get arrested for it.

But you keep believing that CCP propaganda.

[prodigitalson]

6. name another organization that has so dramatically raised the standard of living of so many people

in such a short period. of time.

you can't

edited to say, I denounce the lack of political freedom there.

[AZLD4Candidate]

7. I'm not going to waste my time discussing a murdering government's economic actions

with someone who thinks the Chinese Communist Party is good. Again, come here and live here. You'll change your tune fast.

BTW, how do you know what the CCP is true? They lie about everything, but you keep believing it. They are looking for a few foreigners to shill for them. . .

[prodigitalson]

11. here

Last edited Sun Jul 30, 2023, 09:26 PM - Edit history (1)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living_in_China#cite_note-4
Historically, the Chinese economy was characterized by widespread poverty, extreme income inequalities, and endemic insecurity of livelihood.[1] Improvements since then saw the average national life expectancy rise from around forty-four years in 1949 to sixty-eight years in 1985, while the Chinese population estimated to be living in absolute poverty fell from between 200 and 590 million in 1978 to 70 million in 2017.[2] Before the 19th century, China was one of the leading global powers.

Until the end of the 1970s, the fruits of economic growth were largely negated by population increases, which prevented significant advances in the per capita availability of food, clothing, and housing beyond levels achieved in the 1950s.[1]

In 1978, the Chinese Communist Party, under the leadership of Deng Xiaoping, began to introduce market reforms, including decollectivizing agriculture, allowing foreign investment and individual entrepreneurship.[3] After thirty years of austerity and marginal sufficiency, Chinese consumers suddenly were able to buy more than enough to eat from a growing variety of food items.[1] Stylish clothing, modern furniture, and a wide array of electrical appliances also became part of the normal expectations of ordinary Chinese families.[1]

Following the economic reforms introduced by the government in the late 1970s, consumption, and individual incomes rose significantly, with the real per capita consumption of peasants rising at an annual rate of 6.7% from 1975 to 1986, while for urbanites over the same period, the corresponding figure was 5.5%. The improvements in the standard of living were demonstrated by a boom in rural and urban housing, together with a considerable increase in the ownership of televisions and other appliances.[4]

[AZLD4Candidate]

12. Again, I live here and have for over 12 years. I'll trust what I see when I go to my wife's hometown

in the chinese countryside and what I see when I go into western China.

Again, you want to shill for the one of the worst governments on the planet, go right ahead.

[prodigitalson]

24. I'm not going to defend their political repression...

[AZLD4Candidate]

29. They achieved their economic prowess through political repression. You laud the effect, not the

cause.

But you kill shilling for the CCP. They need more foreigners to carry their water and polish their CCP ax-handles.

[Beastly Boy]

17. Your link shows CCP ruling over quarter of a century of abject poverty and stagnation in China.

Only after 1975, CCP implemented reforms that took another quarter of a century to turn China's economy around, and another quarter of a century to reach China's current standard of living. There are no statistics in your link that provide a specific clue of just how many people benefited from the reforms, and to what degree these benefits were directly related to the CCP policies.

Contrast this with the achievements of a single Bangladeshi:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Yunus

Arguably he lifted more people out of poverty with direct actions targeting poverty than CCP did.

And he did it without imprisoning a single Bangladeshi, let alone millions of them.

On edit: I challenge you to find an organization responsible for more labor camps, imprisonments and deaths of its compatriots than CCP. And you may include the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany and the Red Khmer Cambodia in this comparison.

[BlueIn_W_Pa]

23. Now, $h!t, you got my attention

I knew very well the Soviets, Nazi, Khmer Rouge, but not Yunis. Now historically, Khan probably has the title for the most dead by percentage (like he killed 10% of the planet's population on horseback), and the biggest rapist in history.

Thank you, you gave me another rabbit hole to educate myself

[prodigitalson]

26. The Catholic Church

[Beastly Boy]

27. The Catholic Church killed an estimated

1.2 billion people TOTAL in its 2,000 years of existence. That's an estimated 600,000 people per year, including Catholics and non-Catholics.
https://churchreaders.com/how-many-people-has-the-catholic-church-killed/#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20report%20from%20The%20Guardian%2C%20since,million%20were%20forcibly%20converted%2C%20often%20against%20their%20will.%E2%80%9D


The Chinese Communist Party killed an estimated 80 million, nearly all Chinese, since it came to power 80 years ago. That's an estimated 1 million per year That doesn't count how many they killed during the Civil War.
https://qa.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_has_the_Chinese_Communist_Party_killed

Give them a break, OK? They are well on course to catch up with the Catholic Church in half the time!

[prodigitalson]

28. Last I checked 1.2 billion is more than 80 million

nice goal post move with "per year" business.

[AZLD4Candidate]

30. What is this love affair you have with the CCP? You really do sound like either a foreign shill

or someone who has no idea what the CCP is, has, and will always be about.

[prodigitalson]

32. I teach many students in China everyday.

Most are highly educated professionals who are some of the most interesting and friendly people I know. And yeah I understand the differences in the systems.

[AZLD4Candidate]

33. That's nice. When you live here as long as I have, you can tell me all about it.

when you speak the language like I do, you can tell me all about it.

[prodigitalson]

34. if you hate it so much leave, I doubt they would miss you

[AZLD4Candidate]

35. My wife is Chinese. When she gets her green card, we're both out of here

And this is her country.

[prodigitalson]

36. I'm sure all of china will be saddened by your departure

[AZLD4Candidate]

39. You really are rude and aloof.

Again, when you live here and speak the language, I'll be glad to hear your opinions on the CCP and their BS in China.

Until then, you are flip and have nothing more to say to you on this or any other topic.

[Beastly Boy]

31. Last I checked, 80 years is less than 2000 years.

Wut what you are proposing is to compare what took 2000 years to what took 80 years, as if the two are in any way comparable. This proposition is ridiculous on its face. You are imposing different rules on different players. Only an idiot would agree to play by your rules.

So count me out of this useless argument.

[prodigitalson]

38. don't put words in my mouth

it was a direct answer to this challenge

I challenge you to find an organization responsible for more labor camps, imprisonments and deaths of its compatriots than CCP. And you may include the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany and the Red Khmer Cambodia in this comparison.

And I did.

[Beastly Boy]

40. And I promptly demonstrated how ridiculous your answer is.

You know, if your answer is oblivious to simple math, it doesn't matter how direct it is.

[BlueIn_W_Pa]

15. Easy to do when you kill off so many people as Mao and the CCP did

This is a history that's pretty well researched and detailed from the Nationalists, to WW2, to Mao, to the cultural revolution.

"One government document that has been internally circulated and seen by a former Communist Party official now at Princeton University says that 80 million died unnatural deaths -- most of them in the famine following the Great Leap Forward. This figure comes from the Tigaisuo, or the System Reform Institute, which was led by Zhao Ziyang, the deposed Communist Party chief, in the 1980s to study how to reform Chinese society."

"No other people in this century except Soviet citizens have suffered so much mass killing in cold blood as have the Chinese."

https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/CHINA.CHAP1.HTM

[AZLD4Candidate]

21. It's also easy when you change the requirements for poverty by constantly lowering the poverty level

as well as manipulate data to put out propaganda all paid and non-paid foreign shills can use to show China is a worker's utopia.

Even Hitler and the Nazis at one point had zero unemployment.

[BlueIn_W_Pa]

22. lol, true

When you change it from "dead from starvation" to "not dead", that's a pretty low bar to brag about.

"It's a big club. . .and you ain't in it. You and I aren't in the big club." - George Carlin

Isn't that true

I was fortunate to see him on his very last tour.

[Blues Heron]

9. was there a specific incident, or is this just a generic hate post

[AZLD4Candidate]

10. It's a generic hate post, but it's also based on what the CCP has done here to destroy the culture

and impose xenophobia, bigotry, and jingoism through the people and the education system.

Xi Jinping is a disgusting little paranoid man.

[femmedem]

13. Any chance a post like this is risky for you?

I have no idea if they have spies monitoring DU but if they do, it seems like it wouldn't be hard to figure out who you are.

[AZLD4Candidate]

14. I doubt they would monitor here. It's not like youtube or facebook, which they do monitor

Don't worry. . .they are a great government, lifting people out of poverty while monitoring people who speak online and have independent thoughts that aren't approved.

Personally, I don't live in fear of the CCP at all.

[Karadeniz]

16. Haven't heard from you in FOREVER !!! I hope you and your wife are doing well. I never saw any

photos after the first batch !!

[AZLD4Candidate]

18. I posted about that a LONG time ago. We're still working on the green card

She just got her teacher cert and BA from China made equivalent in the US. We might do the H1B route.

[Martin68]

19. I lived in Japan for 20 years and traveled all over Lisa. I entirely understand your abhorrence of

the CCP. I pity Hong Kong for being the canary in the coal mine, but now every country around China knows exactly what would happen to them if china came knocking.

[AZLD4Candidate]

20. Hypocritical Chinese whining, jingoism, lack of respect while demanding complete respect,

aggression, warmongering, and debt-trapping.

The CCP sucks and I can't wait for it to collapse.

[prodigitalson]

25. I would welcome their collapse as well.