2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumFuck the white working class
The Rude Pundit calls it like it is.
Look. We liberals gave them health care and addiction treatment and retraining help and an auto industry bailout that saved millions of their jobs. We created the programs that brought electricity and indoor plumbing and phone service to them. We gave them tons of shit that the Republicans fought tooth and nail to prevent or take away. We kept them fucking alive, goddammmit. And in the end, none of that made a damn bit of difference because it’s not about how bad their life is with them. It’s all about identity politics. It’s all about sticking it to The Man, about being upset that n***ers and f****ts no longer know their place, about a fear their children might get edumacated and move the fuck away from the hellhole they’ve made of the place they live.
And since I’m sure some sanctimonious Republican dickwad is gonna flounce in here at any moment and decry El Rudo and me as some New Yawk Elite and other bullshit like that, El Rudo is from Louisiana, like me. We went to the same high school, actually, and I remember him well though he was two years behind me (folks, he was loud, profane, and funny as hell even as a young El Rudo). When he says that Democrats chasing white working class voters is a lost cause, he’s not doing it from some elite coast viewpoint, he’s doing it as someone who grew up there and knows how people think there (for some definition of the word “think”). Identity politics trumps economics, in the end.
We liberals should feel their pain if we want their votes? Fuck that shit. We should do what’s right by them because unlike them, we embody the Christian virtues of caring for the least amongst us, but that ain’t gonna make a bit of difference in terms of votes because when you see people who repeatedly time and time again spew racist blather like it’s God’s own truth, who continually over and over vote against the people who created the government programs that keep their butts alive and give them a chance for the future (programs like Medicaid and food stamps and retraining programs and so forth), when you see people who time and again vote for politicians making shallow promises about things that even a moment’s worth of thought can never happen because reality just don’t work that way (those coal jobs are *gone*, people, and they aren’t coming back, because even the Chinese are retiring coal-fired power plants and replacing them with solar and wind), when you continually see people who vote against their own self-interests because they care more about sticking it to “The Man”, some caricature in some far-off state that they don’t really comprehend but they know has to exist, than they care about their own self-interests… screw’em. Yeah, call me smug if you want. Won’t be the first time. Won’t be the last time. But I’ll just point out that Trump won with fewer votes than McCain lost by. Trump didn’t win because white working class voters deserted to him. Trump won because the Democrats forgot their own coalition and didn’t turn out their own voters. A coalition that today trends urban, more educated, more minority, and younger than Republican, and which was broken up this year by a number of things, but none of which had a damn thing to do with white working class people.
As for white working class people? Yeah, their plight sucks. 99% of it is their own fault for hanging on to their own petty bigotries and hanging on to their own ignorance and refusing education when it was offered to them, but yeah, their plight sucks. And we liberals ought to do something about that. But because it’s the right thing to do, not because they’re going to be grateful and vote for us. This election wasn’t about economics. Trump’s voters actually trended *wealthier* than in the last election. Claiming the election was about economics is nonsense. This election was about identity politics, pure and simple. It was about a whole class of people saying, “Stop the world, we want off, we want to go back to when you could graduate high school dumber than a rock and still make a good living at the coal mine, and black people knew their place, and gay people were somewhere else, not in our face in our towns, and we didn’t have all these strange ideas coming into our towns via satellite TV and the Internet.” Well that ain’t happenin’. That train done rolled. The left-behind are pissed about that. Well, there’s not a bloody thing we can do to make them un-pissed about it. You know what the take-up rates are on re-training programs in Kentucky coal towns? You know how many of those who *did* take the re-training courses were willing to move in order to get a job in their new field? 0.5%. Zero. Point. Five. Percent. You got people who aren’t willing to help themselves, and then they’re blaming Democrats for that fact. Boo fucking hoo.
So fuck the white working class. We liberals have no outreach to do there that has any political import. What we need to do is get the liberal coalition back together again, and kick their politicians out of office and help these stupid motherfuckers despite their unwillingness to show a dime’s worth of gratitude for that help, not because we’re going to get their votes — the dumb ass motherfuckers ain’t gonna vote for a liberal, nosirree — but because it’s the right thing to do. And then we need to dump all the bullshit that the KGB spread to divide Democrats against themselves, and get our people pumped up and ready to vote these motherfuckers out of office and get in there and fix this shit, already. Wasting time on the white working class trying to win their votes, in the end, as about as useful as outreach to Amazon jungle tribesmen. They’re both a bunch of primitive dipshits who aren’t gonna vote for us regardless, so. Offer them help because it’s the right thing to do, but obsessing about getting the votes of these primitive inbreds is about as useful as a bicycle for fish. We need to get our own shit together and get our own people out to vote. That’s the solution, in the end.
– Badtux the Rude Penguin
Ouch. Fact.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Beartracks
(13,609 posts)... who, thankfully for them, don't have to put up with our "culture" of politics, infotainment, and Christian melodramatics.
====================
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Amazon jungle tribesmen.are dipshits???
melman
(7,681 posts)Says right at the end there: "Fact"
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)real world is some muthafucking racist dog whistle shit.
I am about goddamn sick of this "chase-a-cracker, maybe if we beg hard enough and toss us PoC, queers and uppity women under the bus their white power ass will vote for us" SHIT
JHan
(10,173 posts)The Orange One insults one group after another, his supporters turn a blind eye- challenging them on it is bad... asking how the fuck it wasn't a deal breaker for them at the ballot box is bad.... but WE"RE THE ONES WITH THE PROBLEM.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)Rude pundit is funny, but funny does not equate to correct.
And if 90% of white American are working class, does that mean that one automatically assumes that they cannot be reached?
And I am not a sanctimonious GOP voter, I am a member of the working class who knows many other members of the white working class. True, I am a unionized white working class voter, which does make some difference. Union workers and black voters were the backbone of the Democratic Party for many years. And yes, racism is a huge problem in the US, but it does not explain everything. Economic insecurity is a big problem also, and when people are insecure they become less tolerant.
Recommended anyway because Rude Pundit is funny.
Thanks sheshe for your excellent choice of material.
sheshe2
(87,894 posts)Many are woman, and we got tossed under the bus a long long time ago. Interesting statement.
Well, you read my post earlier, you know my situation. I am more tolerant and in acute pain for anyone suffering as I am now. Yet I will never forgive the fool that votes against their best interests and in doing so brings more pain on us all. I am tired for suffering for their ignorance and hate.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)And far too many, especially women, are in your situation also.
But when I said:
I was trying to link intolerance and insecurity. The Scandinavian countries are generally recognized as enjoying far more economic security than the US. And their citizens seem to be more tolerant of difference. I feel that when people feel "on the edge financially, there seems to be a tendency to become more........I do not know if defensive is the correct word, perhaps afraid is a better word. And that economic fear seems to translate to anger in some people. Not all people, but some.
And I agree with you that working class Trump voters are voting their fears, but they are also voting their hopes. it does not matter that they are placing their hopes in a man who has no idea or intention to help them. Perhaps they hope that his magical slogan about making America great again can magically transform their lives.
It worked for Reagan with his morning in America again slogan. He received their votes even as he exploded the deficit and ruined the economy. Hope can make people do strange things.
mythology
(9,527 posts)They have recently suffered significant race riots and other signs of racial animus as the level of non-white immigrants have risen.
The Sweden Democrats (a far right anti-immigration party) posted major gains in 2014 elections.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)Economic insecurity often leads to scapegoating by the insecure. And fascists are often willing to point out who is to blame.
Ligyron
(7,904 posts)Their whole demographic is mono cultural and mostly mono genetic until recently and now they are having some "issues", lol.
whathehell
(29,846 posts)so forget the walk-back.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)We haven't had them in the Dem Party to any great extent since Nixon, when he used racist code to get their support.
The vast majority of these dudes vote GOP. They keep voting against their self-interest time after time after time. The time to have protested against the economic ruination of this country was during Ronald Reagan's administration. That is when neolib economics really started snowballing. Jobs were being sent overseas by the millions, pensions were gutted, unions were undermined, ruinous trade agreements began to be implemented. And where the hell were these white dudes? Voting for Reagan, bitching about how many "advantages" women and minorities were getting because of affirmative action, these guys thinking they deserved and still deserve the best jobs because they have white skin and dicks.
I refuse to feel one bit sorry for these assholes. With the women, it is almost entirely the bogus "social issues" which the right politicians always use as a con in order to get these women's votes in order to pick their pockets.
Years ago I used to feel sorry for these guys losing their way of life, but there comes a time when to cut them loose. You couldn't knock sense into these idiots with a two-by-four. I am not sure another Great Depression would change them. They are hopeless.
I am sick of this "working class" phrase. That is Berniespeak, and he is nothing but a moth-eaten Marxist.
I am not a fan of the "Rude Pundit," since his foulmouthed writing grates on the nerves, but he is right in this case.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)because far too many people seem to believe that the US is a classless society. If that sounds Marxist to you I understand, but any analysis of this society that does not recognize economic class is, in my opinion, deficient.
Rich people have always used race, and language, and religion, and sex to divide working people. A divided working class is easier to exploit because one subset can always be played against another.
If you said that we cannot reach racist white people I would still disagree because to write off a significant fraction of the population seems to be counterproductive.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)It is wrongheaded, and yes, he IS a Marxist, which discredits him right off the bat.
The term "middle class" is typically used in the US instead of the term "working class," which is more European. This includes both white- and blue-collar workers.
Issues affecting women and minorities ARE separate because they ARE impacted much differently than white males, and just because they don't put white dudes in the center of concern doesn't make those issues less important.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)People making 400,000 a year define themselves as middle class, as do people making 20,000 a year. It reflects more of a mindset or an aspiration rather than a term that defines economic reality. Who defines themselves as "low class"?
People making 50,000 or less a year, over half of the population, are much more vulnerable, much less likely to have a financial cushion. And the rich exploit that vulnerability, sometimes by pointing out union members make more than the average. Or that government workers have pensions.
Never examined by the corporate media is that the principal Walton heirs are worth more than the bottom 40% of US workers combined. Or that corporations are moving overseas because hedge fund operators are constantly seeking even higher returns. Carrier is a profitable company. it is moving production to Mexico to make even more money.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Marxist!
FFS, enough with the moth-eaten red-baiting.
Jesus H. Christ.
aidbo
(2,328 posts)
dionysus
(26,467 posts)hollowdweller
(4,229 posts)We need to oppose racism and prejudice for sure but our party can't have the same attitude about working people of all races and expect to win.
We can pass all the laws we want about non discrimination and political correctness, but as long as the economic conditions that promote intolerance and increasing competition over fewer and fewer good jobs gets worse there is no way we can legislate tolerance.
Initech
(102,318 posts)And they're going off about alt right nonsense the whole night. They were definitely tricked by the GOP into voting against their best interests. The election of Donald Trump and the destruction of Obama makes me wonder if we really do live in the Matrix and that there's hope on the other side. 
dionysus
(26,467 posts)You got good company.
Response to dionysus (Reply #116)
Post removed
dionysus
(26,467 posts)Is homophoboc about that?!
Response to dionysus (Reply #147)
fun n serious This message was self-deleted by its author.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)
I don't know where the hell you conjured that from...
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)They are anti-trade and anti immigration.. They are "PROTECTIONIST" and nationalist. They tout FDR even though it was only the white who did better under FDR. FDR was a huge segregationist
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)"We haven't had them in the Dem Party to any great extent since Nixon, when he used racist code to get their support."
No. Those were affluent, middle-to-upper-middle class suburban white voters who voted for Nixon. You know, those more "educated" and "tolerant" voters. 
In 1968, Hubert Humphrey won a significant majority of working class white voters outside the Deep South (where George Wallace, of course, got a lot of white support). Research the election results if you don't want to take my word for it. In 1972, Nixon obviously won in a massive landslide, and yes, he won a lot of working class white voters - but remember that Jimmy Carter won back a lot of those Southern working class whites who had defected to Wallace. And in both 1972 and especially 1976, the Republican presidential nominee did significantly better among wealthier voters (most of whom were/are white, of course). As is tradition.
And no, most working class white dudes did not vote for Reagan. Well, OK, a lot of them did in 1984 - in a 49-state, 59%-41% landslide. And once again, the wealthier whites did a lot better. The "Reagan Democrats" (a painfully overused and pretty much irrelevant term - most of those people are dead, and they either became loyal Republican voters or returned to the Democratic Party) tended to be more affluent suburban white voters. But again, take a look at the election results for 1984. Walter Mondale actually beat Reagan not just in his home state of Minnesota, but in many working-class white locales and counties in much of the Rust Belt - again, in an election in which much of the rest of the country, and wealthier voters in particular, voted for Reagan. You know, those same working-class white areas that Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump this year by scandalously large margins.. Same is even more true for 1988 (take a look at the electoral map that year in Iowa, for example - a state which Trump won this year by several points.
And remember....most of these places sent Democrats to Congress up until the "Republican Revolution" of the 1990s (and many of them even after that - especially outside the South). Which coincidentally, happened in the wake of NAFTA and the rise of "Third Way" Democratic politics with Bill Clinton and co. deciding that the future of the Democratic Party lied in pandering to those same affluent, suburban middle class white voters on everything from crime and taxes to "fiscal conservatism" and corporate deregulation. And all of this, of course, was done at the expense of working class voters of ALL demographic backgrounds - not just white men. And yet, a significant number of working class white men outside the South continued to vote for Democrats at most levels of government - and yes, many at the presidential level as well. And even as the Democratic Party was starting to decrease in strength among this group, a lot of working class whites outside the South (including white men) still voted for Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, and yes, Barack Obama. Hell, a lot of them voted for Hillary Clinton in the 2008 presidential primaries. And yet, as we are all now painfully aware, there's substantial overlap between these voters (well, the ones who are still alive) and Trump voters - especially in the states which proved to be decisive for Trump's Electoral College win. Which, as far as I know, is still how a candidate wins the Presidency of the United States.
All of this is a long way of saying: You're wrong.
PS: Red-baiting doesn't really do you any favors in a political argument. Especially since there aren't many Reds left to bait, even among Bernie voters (of whom I wasn't one, for the record).
Lotusflower70
(3,093 posts)Unite and fire up the troops for midterm turnout. And prep for 2020. Stay on message and don't get caught up in bait and rhetoric.
mia
(8,420 posts)I'm a liberal, white, working class, "dumbass, mutherfucking, primitive, dipshit" teacher.
It's ugly and beyond fucking tired at this point.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)to see on a Democratic message board.
True Dough
(20,641 posts)We're supposed to hold ourselves to a higher standard. Dems aren't perfect, but to wallow in the mud and to make outcasts of the entire "white middle class" is detrimental.
Raine
(30,616 posts)Response to mia (Reply #5)
Akacia This message was self-deleted by its author.
whathehell
(29,846 posts) Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)frankieallen
(583 posts)telling people they are stupid assholes if they don't agree with you, ya that's how we get them over to our side.
and it continues.....
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Just does us a big disservice. The hate expressed on DU gets over the top.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)We White people have to swallow hard and shrug off a lot to cast a vote for Democrats. I'm tired ot it, too.
brush
(57,950 posts)True Dough
(20,641 posts)There's no need for you or others who identify as white middle class to be constantly subjected to the vilification. It should really be directed at those who supported Drumpf for his bigotry and misogyny, regardless of their socio-economic status.
OrwellwasRight
(5,214 posts)
radical noodle
(8,749 posts)we freaking won, if not for the weird electoral college. We have the majority. She has over 2 million more votes than Trump now. And still we have this same maddening story about how we must blow up the Party.
I just saw a post related to that where the person admitted that they didn't vote for our candidate. Why in hell should that person have a voice now? I don't see it. Those are the people who gave away everything for their own personal gotcha moment. This country will go back in time because of them. Maybe I'm just old, contrary and angry... but I am what I am, and I'm mad as hell.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)
Amishman
(5,828 posts)We are losing ground all across America. We need to change our tone and message. The attitude of the article posted in the OP is a big symptom of our problem.
frankieallen
(583 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)More people voted for us. Its not anything we did not do. It's Gerrymandering
OrwellwasRight
(5,214 posts)More posts like yours. Less telling working people to fuck off, please.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)
boguspotus
(297 posts)Even though we will be taken down with them - I have no fucking sympathy for these trump fucks. They can go to hell.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)They are lost. Consumed by anger and entitlement. They will never vote Democratic, or for their best interests, which we know to be synonymous.
fishwax
(29,327 posts)
"Trump’s voters actually trended *wealthier* than in the last election. Claiming the election was about economics is nonsense."
JCanete
(5,272 posts)this is also awful.
Raine
(30,616 posts)for a very long time.
True Dough
(20,641 posts)It's hateful. It's lashing out with a broad brush, and it's doing more harm than good.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)JHan
(10,173 posts)We had a whole fucking year of a living breathing shit stain exploit every imaginable fear of voters.
people stood in a booth and voted for it, they voted for a man who scapegoated and demonized ordinary people trying to live their fucking lives in peace. And the problem is with me - the liberal , who points out that this man lies , is disgraceful and will degrade the Presidency. If you vote for a racist fuck, what conclusion am I to draw?
Political correctness is only a sin for some. For those precious ones whose psyche every journalist wanted to uncover this year "Who are Trump voters?" .. "Let's understand the Trump voter" .. "The Hidden Voter - Trump Voters" - all these fucking ingratiating articles and I'm thinking -yes who are these fucking people for whom xenophobia and racism aren't deal breakers at the ballot box?
I point this out and I am the problem. Sexist shit and racist shit can be heard and sold at Trump rallies; The Deplorable behavior is called deplorable - oh the horror , don't call them deplorable! what the fuck else am I supposed to call this shit then?
Think back to any other politician or ordinary citizen getting away with this - Reverend Jeremiah Wright is a distant memory when a white nationalist can have the ear of the President and the Press normalises it..
So fuck all the "Identity politics of PoC of Gays, of Women is why we lost" narratives.
Pathwalker
(6,602 posts)lost friends over this election? Just because we're white working class? That is the absolute largest broad brush I've ever seen used here. I've voted Democratic in every election since 1968, never got out of the "working class" until I retired, and I was born white, and still am white.
So, does this mean my vote is no longer needed or welcomed in the Democratic Party? Just say so, and I'll just stay home from now on - I can't take another heart attack like the one I had two fucking days after this last election!
This nastiness helps NOTHING!
sheshe2
(87,894 posts)Second, I assume you did not vote for tRump, or third party or left your ballot blank. So this is not about you.
This is about tRump supporters that vote against their best interests every dayum election.
Please don't make this about you when it is not. They need to wake up 'cause they just voted in a racist sexual predator. He is a white supremacist and a Nazi to boot. He is coming for all of us. Be afraid, be very afraid. He is coming for their dreaded Obamacare and stupid them they never looked beyond their hate he is coming for their SS and Medicare as well.
They hated that uppity black man that gave them so much and abhorred that uppity woman that would given them more. Why? They are sexist racist sniveling white men that hold their guns and privilege more tightly than their own needs.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)The absolute hate is saddening
mythology
(9,527 posts)Apparently the Rude Pundit has very little desire to attract more voters to the Democratic side. Which seems like a poor choice given what that gives us. Democrats have enough of a built in disadvantage with the electoral college and gerrymandering. There's no need to tell people that they are too stupid to vote for us.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)In most cases (aside from the really religious people) rural voters don't give a flying fart who you marry, what you do with your body, whether or not you eat meat, whether or not you want a gun, don't care what you look like, what religion you follow, the color of your skin and whatever else. They are just reacting like a pissed off vegan who has been told that they need to just eat meat and feed it to their families and be happy about it because there are starving people in other countries and meat is a good source of protein and since you need protein it must be what's best for you, so we can make rules that say you HAVE to eat meat. We're just doing it for your own good, afterall.
There is a very DEEP resentment not towards "the Man" but towards those on the left who DO act superior and DO try to force their opinions onto others. Hell, I experienced it here simply by having the audacity to say I prefer to vote in person and NOT by mail in ballot. That group of voters actually agree most with Democrats but they are fed up with the sanctimonious BS. That's what it really boils down to.
Akacia
(632 posts)White 60 year old working class woman here and I agree 100%.
JimBeard
(293 posts)diverse mix of groups. It is no longer the party of the lower class working people and minorities but now higher income people whose priorities are environment and sexual orientation. The tent is getting very wide and I have seen on this and other Democratic message boards that the groups really do not support each other. I noticed that the newbies really do not care for the low income and disadvantaged people. (Not all)
We have a very difficult blend in our party which at times helps some our party but also offends some on the borderline. Thats why I still hear "The Democratic Party left me".
What we are doing is the right thing to do but we must get our widely diverse party working more for each other.
I lost my post count when I came back in after the crash.
uppityperson
(115,880 posts)"I lost my post count when I came back in after the crash."
JimBeard
(293 posts)Trying to get back in here, I was having problems with my email address and tried everything and I got that fixed so I then still had problems getting a new password because I decided to get back on with a star membership. I got back on with a Star membership but my post count zeroed out for Jim Beard which did not change.
uppityperson
(115,880 posts)You can have 2 active account, so you get to decide which to keep open and which we should get rid of as a duplicate account. The older one has a space in the name, and 1584 posts. If you can get the password issue fixed up with that one and want to continue to use it, please let me know. Or if you want to keep this one and have older one closed down as the duplicate, please let me know.
I hope this makes sense.
-You have 2 active accounts, 1 with a space in the name the other with no space. They are different member numbers.
-You can only have 1 active account. Please let me know which you'd like to use and the other can be shut down by Admin.
Thanks.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Some need to look in a mirror
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)I'm not sure why some object so strongly to the notion that 20-25% of eligible voters can't be reached by the Democratic Party without the Democratic Party abandoning its base. That seems like a pretty obvious point. A similar point, minus the colorful language, was made in this piece: "On Rural America: Understanding Isn't The Problem."
Trump didn't put forth any substantive policy positions, and I don't think many of his supporters were sitting around having nuanced discussions about trade or any other issue. If trade was such an important issue, Rob Portman wouldn't have kicked Ted Strickland's ass in Ohio. And the median income of Trump supporters is substantially higher than the median income of Clinton supporters.
No Democratic candidate for president has won the white vote since LBJ, and that's not because Republicans are the party of sound economic policy.
Of course Democrats need to do a better job of messaging, of making it clear that progressive politics is key to improving economic conditions.
Of course Democrats need to do a better job of GOTV, fighting voter suppression and attempting to reach those who don't vote.
But the fact is racism, sexism, misogyny, heterosexism, xenophobia and Christian supremacy take precedence for tens of millions of voters. It's not that 100% of them are unreachable, but the time and effort necessary to undo the brainwashing is time and effort that can be spent in much more productive, efficient ways.
It'd be one thing if most people were working from a set of agreed-upon facts (which is even less the case in this age of 24/7 infotainment with media personalities who say it's not their job to fact check). There'd still be disagreement over causes for and appropriate responses to those facts. But millions of people flat out deny facts while subscribing to patently false beliefs. Presenting them with facts has a tendency to backfire, as studies have made clear. The false beliefs become more ingrained. That's true across the political spectrum, but it's a matter of scale. While most everyone will cling to at least some false beliefs, there are those who simply live in an alternate reality. If you want to dedicate time to pulling people out of that alternate reality, more power to you.
Coventina
(28,006 posts)I mean, seriously.
They are only in "pain" because they are fearful of losing privilege.
They are only "angry" because they think they are losing out due to "reverse racism" (whatever THAT unicorn happens to be).
So, they've seen their incomes go down.
So, they won't do as well as their parents.
So what?
They have not been beaten up for being who they are. (LGBT, an uppity person of color)
Their ancestors were not brought here as slaves, nor suffered generations of discrimination.
They scream about identity politics, but their whole position is nothing BUT identity politics.
They HAD their chance to move this country into a better place for ALL Americans, but chose to double-down on some sort of made up threat that simply doesn't exist outside of their own minds.
Now, they are trying to bring the rest of the country down to their level.
I stand with the Rude Pundit: I have zero fucks to give for them.
sheshe2
(87,894 posts)Thank you!
We saw all those white middle class people at the tRump events. They are sooooooooo concerned about 'their welfare'. We saw them and the con make fun of people with disabilities. The reporter and the mom with a young child. This is who they are, violent, uncaring racist, sexist bigots that lost their souls a very long time ago.
He advocated violence at every event, the crowds roared their approval. Now I have people telling me I am being harsh and should reach out to them. Fuck that.
One woman posted a pic with her tshirt message. Hey Donnie grab this with an arrow to her P***y. What type of self respecting woman does this!!!
I'm quote you.
I stand with the Rude Pundit: I have zero fucks to give for them.
Brava!
Coventina
(28,006 posts)And WE are the ones being hateful and divisive.
And now WE are supposed to feel sympathy for all the widdle hurt feewings they've had for eight years of Obama's TYRRANY!!
Ummm,, sorry, no.
Please take your little pocket Constitution, roll it into a tight spindle, and give your prostate a massage with it.
I so love your last line!!!!!
Coventina
(28,006 posts)I am always in hopes of introducing more men into the joys of bottoming.
If all straight men gave it a try, I think it would truly change the world.
Even if it wasn't every guy's cup of tea, it would at least help them understand a little bit about the physical vulnerability of their female partners. Also, I think it would reduce homophobia.
sheshe2
(87,894 posts)Coventina
(28,006 posts)
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...don't expect them to acknowledge yours. Especially when there are many white working class people who have acknowledged the problems in our society.
Coventina
(28,006 posts)Oh yes, they are such an oppressed group, now and for generations past.
Instead of being born on third, they have to take their chances with the pitcher now, like the rest of us....
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)You say this:
So instead of a message of hope in their struggles because as you said, we're all in the same boat, you rub it in their faces...and we wonder why people wouldn't be receptive to that.
Go to your local trailer park and tell the white families living there that they're so "privileged" and should have no complaints. Go to a rural town where jobs are vanishing and not coming back and tell them they should just live off their "privilege". Struggles are struggles no matter who you are. They may be different for different groups, but they're no less real. White people are no more monolithic than any other group. The sooner we realize this and use it to our advantage, the better.
Coventina
(28,006 posts)THEY are the ones dragging us all down.
Not women, not LGBT, not PoC.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)Sure, some of it is ideological differences. A lot of it was lack of messaging to address their concerns. Why would they vote for a party that doesn't address them or their needs? Why do you vote for Dems...is it because you believe you'll benefit from them being in power? That your issues will be advanced by Dems? The same is true of the people you're demonizing...give them a reason to vote for Dems and they will.
Stop brushing off peoples concerns as being less important than your own. This is not the same thing as "ignoring bigotry, racism, sexism, and homophobia" as it's currently being painted as. It's building our party's message to reach a broader audience.
Squinch
(53,050 posts)address their concerns. They preferred a demagogue who promised them the impossible and lied every time he opened his mouth. He lied and told them what they want to believe. A minute or two of research would have shown them that his promises are either impossible or would not improve their situations But they chose not to invest that minute or two of research and put all our futures into the hands of the snake oil salesman.
I am not brushing off people's concerns as being less important than my own. I am denying the idea that the concerns of the intellectually lazy voters of the rust belt are any different or more important than my own. I am brushing off the idea that they deserve empathy for their idiotic choices that put us all in jeopardy.
Coventina
(28,006 posts)Squinch
(53,050 posts)I learn from! But thank you for the compliment.
Squinch
(53,050 posts)vanishing in the cities are any different from the jobs that are vanishing in the country? Do you think that the problems those people have are any different from the problems that every other area and group are facing?
They are not.
There is nothing special about these people that we need to pander to them. The only difference between them and every other struggling group is that they didn't bother to learn which candidate would work to make their lives better and which one would ruin them along with the rest of us.
I am a member of the white working class. It is still true that the only things that would induce a voter to vote for Corrupt Donald are stupidity, laziness and a privilege that makes them believe that their struggle is somehow worse than the struggles of the rest of us.
I will not pander to those imbeciles.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...but poor, rural, white people are the current subject of many people's ire around here. I did stereotype a bit in my response, but that was going to happen regardless of how I broke it down. The point is, struggle is struggle...regardless of race/gender/whatever other thing you want to break it down by.
Squinch
(53,050 posts)enough not to vote to put a psychopath in the White House.
Those who DID vote to put a psychopath in the White House did not do it because of the struggles that everyone is naming. Because as we agree, we are ALL subject to those struggles. So what is different about them? It is this: they think they are entitled to not have to deal with those struggles. They think they are entitled to expect that some demagogue will come along and make their lives comfortable without requiring the effort from them even to understand what is causing their problems.
That is the ignorance and hubris of privilege, plain and simple.
I am a member of the white working class. I know that ignorance and hubris when I see it.
old guy
(3,296 posts)they don't want a leader, they want a ruler. Makes everything simpler that way, no thinking involved.
Squinch
(53,050 posts)Bunch of assholes.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)One of the least progressive posts I have ever read on this board.
Squinch
(53,050 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)And I will share mine that I found that post to be startlingly unprogressive and hurtful.
Squinch
(53,050 posts)demagoguery that is putting a psychopath in the white house. I have no need to show respect for the decision by those people to give him the presidency.
Your mileage, apparently, varies.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Ignorance and bigotry should not be pandered to.
betsuni
(27,275 posts)rusty quoin
(6,133 posts)Response to sheshe2 (Original post)
Akacia This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to sheshe2 (Original post)
Post removed
uponit7771
(91,935 posts)... error in flip counties.
Fuck those counties if their doing better now than when Obama got into office...
There's no help for people like that
jalan48
(14,486 posts)mia
(8,420 posts)whathehell
(29,846 posts)and yes, that includes the white working class...Sick of all the race & class hatred here.
greymattermom
(5,796 posts)Maybe someone will introduce a tax fairness bill to cap the extra money spent in red states, say no more than maybe 10% more in any state than the amount they contribute. Many of the folks who voted for Trump depend on the money coming in from the blue urban areas. Tax Fairness Now. Let's just give them improved interstates without many exit ramps.
whathehell
(29,846 posts)though I doubt it will satisfy the haters.
nolabels
(13,133 posts)He is also a victim of his kind. I wouldn't know or care if he makes income from his punditry but perhaps a little more focus on that 240 year old rule penciled in the constitution by a just few people in some back room to appease some slave owning fat cat colonials back in the day. This little stinking rule has thwarted millions of people even after slavery was abolished after a very bloody civil war.
No, he is just like the other lemmings following others who being paid to spread descension and division while keeping things as they are. Truly serving a conservative agenda
whathehell
(29,846 posts)Sh needs to hear it.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)nolabels
(13,133 posts)Also if one fits part of that bill does this indicate one is also included?
A friend of mine, who emigrated from Hong Cong many years ago and also an independent voted for Trump because she was tired of Clinton and Bush dynasties. China has had dynasties ruling for thousands of years and so is she also wrong for her convictions?
We are all suckers for identity politics. Not using the true test and holding our elected officials accountable for the responsibilities of that position what our real problem is. Mostly if we looked more closely, we would know that.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Let's get something out of the way: I'm a member of the white working class (WWC), and a woman. So what? That should take care of all the responses of "I'm white working class and I'm not like that!"
It's not about me, or you. The RP was talking about a wide swath of the WWC. I know them, you know them, if you live or have ever lived in the Rust Belt, the deep South, or in certain rural areas. It's God, Guns, and their absolute right to be dirt stupid and still have high paying jobs. It's hatred--ignorant, blind hatred--of anything and anyone who challenges "all that is dear" to them. It's hanging on, desperately, to the past that no one will ever see again, and many of us don't want to.
You can't reach these people. Their families and loved ones can't reach them. They are impervious to rational argument. They are anti-education, anti-science, anti-anyone who is not exactly like them, and who does not think like them.
Yes, we ought to help them with our liberal policies, even though they don't appreciate it. Not because we feel sorry for them, but because those policies benefit all of us, not just them. And they won't like that. They want everything for themselves and cannot understand that a strong society means safety nets for all who need them.
Yes, yes, I UNDERSTAND that not all members of the WWC are as described above. I'm not, and I don't believe you are either. But it's not about us.
And yes, Fuck them.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)The data seems to belie your claim.
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/15/502032052/lots-of-people-voted-for-obama-and-trump-heres-where-in-3-charts
I don't want to say too much because right now people are rubbed raw by the defeat. But we could have won this election. Certainly we won the prior two. If we don't go nuts we'll win the next election.
Response to Yo_Mama (Reply #67)
Kathy M This message was self-deleted by its author.
frankieallen
(583 posts)in 08 and 2012, are now ignorant, stupid, racist, homophobic, uneducated assholes in 2016?
anyone?.......
alarimer
(16,628 posts)Read Gary Younge at the Guardian. He spent a long time in Muncie and talked about these very things. It is far from as simple as "They're racist" or "They are economically shattered." Both those things (and others) may be true, but fundamentally it is that they voted for change with Obama and didn't get it (obviously they expected way too much given the Republican Congress) and the Democrats refusal to support anything other than incremental change as well.
unitedwethrive
(2,009 posts)and succeed in softening any of their policies, then people will say, "See, everyone was so worried about Trump, but he isn't so bad."
We win if he is bad. If he fails miserably or disappoints those who supported him. We need to play their game, because clearly it worked.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)I know, the GOP! You want to become what you hate?
johnnyrocket
(1,773 posts)...sucker them out of benefits and stick them with taxes. It's too bad these working class people don't see that.
vi5
(13,305 posts)..our politicians, and our actual pundits who get media time need to say this exact thing, but they don't. They dance around and try and play nice and not offend the powers that be, or upset anyone with uncivil talk.
They don't point out again and again and again and fucking again all the stuff that liberalism and the Democratic party have done for them.
Until they are ready, willing, and able to do that in a full throated, clearly stated way we will continue to lose this vote.
So yeah the Rude Pundit is right, but the reason the white working class don't realize any of this is because nobody with any power in our party, nobody with even the smallest of megaphones says this stuff day in, day out, and all through the goddamned fucking night.
Response to sheshe2 (Original post)
Post removed
demtenjeep
(31,997 posts)BlueProgressive
(229 posts)who are ALSO part of the working class, as mere "collateral damage" to 'fucking the white working class'?
So many of these posts/articles saying we should just throw the working class under the bus, seem to presume that the working class is almost exclusively white--
which is in itself, a RACIST notion-- since it presumes that "minorities don't work".
Number23
(24,544 posts)from straight white folks for some time. And guess who it was that ACTUALLY played "identity politics" and ran, not walked -- RAN, to vote in a blustering fuckwit who hasn't even been sworn in yet and is already backtracking on his campaign promises because he'd make them feel damn good about being white in America again?
A man that economists noted time and again that his policies were either incoherent or dangerous? A man who thinks that he can run the country from Trump Tower and not have to slum it with his employees at the White House?
The same folks that screamed that Obama was a secret Muslim, that Michelle was a man, that he was a socialist and conjured up every single bit of stupid assed fantasy bullshit they could pull out of their behinds RAN to vote for a man who has an actual list of crimes a half a mile long. Who has ACTUALLY been sued multiple times for racial and gender discrimination, who has ACTUALLY been accused of sexual assault. Who has been married 50 leven times and has OPENLY cheated on at least one of these ridiculous women and whose current wife was by any account an illegal immigrant, the thing they've been screaming that Obama is for over eight years?
But no, none of that shit was about racism! None of it! That was just legitimate policy concerns these folks had with a decent, brilliant, hard working man that lead them to question every single fucking step he took and then vote for a man who's not qualified to clean his predecessors' shoes.
sheshe2
(87,894 posts)I have missed you Number23. 
Michelle is an ape in heels. Not raciest all. This family, best ever. I love them.
I want them to stay as much as I want them to go. America did not deserve their beauty and grace. America is a stupid lot. They never appreciated what they had and now threw it away to a fascist pig. He will use our treasury as his personal piggy bank.
I hope we can survive the next four years.
It is late and I have to go.
joshcryer
(62,506 posts)whistler162
(11,155 posts)about people not respecting you! HMMMMMM!!!!
Whine about a group of people and then whine when someone in that group is angry at you. Reads like a solid Republican value to me!
ismnotwasm
(42,476 posts)Reading through the replies makes me wonder if anyone actually read the article, or even wonders, much less reads, about racial power dynamics.
Now you just called her a whiner and Republican-a response I find very odd.
True Dough
(20,641 posts)You're not the only one to have noticed it, I can assure you!
Gothmog
(155,157 posts)Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)Only the 1% are benefitting from large swaths of Americans hating each other.
Fuck the Rude Pundit.
jake335544
(53 posts)Read Thomas Frank's Book, "Listen Liberal", and gain some perspective on how much our party has *actively* failed the entire working class.
And lol at "giving them health care". Aside from the Medicaid expansion, we gave the working class a mixed bag of small reform on the heel of the largest recession since the great depression. Many blue collar workers I work with saw their premiums go ***up*** after Heritage-foundation-care, and can afford the fine more than the deductible. You can't talk down to those people.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Turns out that they fuck back.
sheshe2
(87,894 posts)Yet they vote against themselves over and over again. They did it again. Bravo. Hate of minorities wins again. Racist and sexist hate won.
And they fucked us all with their vote.
I weep for their stupidity.
One goes down we all go down.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)sheshe2
(87,894 posts)I'm white working class, dem voter for life, and Rude can go fuck himself.
Rude was not talking about you then.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)sheshe2
(87,894 posts)Dem all my life.
Lost my job 8 months ago. Due to age, no one wants me full time. Forced into early retirement as my unemployment ran out. I don't want to coddle those that vote for the likes of trump and against their own best interests. They aren't the voter we need to court, they have no intention of changing. They voted for hate. There is no changing that. They listen to fake news. There is no changing that.
I prefer to court the minorities. The ones that actually wish to take us forward.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)I'm a trailer park kid whose first vote ever was for bill...
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)just one segment of the population he sees as voting against their own interests. He doesn't consider all the black working class voters who do the exact same thing when they vote for a party that welcomes millions of immigrants who take the jobs that used to go to blacks and black youths. I don't know how they manage to square that circle, but I imagine those white working class voters who voted for Trump could identify with the effort.
Whenever I see one of your posts I remember the great art you used to post in teh Lounge and that you introduced me to bond!
Happy New Year sheshe2. Things will eventually look up, they have to.
Missn-Hitch
(1,383 posts)
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)Obama said. "The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican."
vid at link
http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Politics/obama-considered-moderate-republican-1980s/story?id=17973080
I didn't like them then either.
sheshe2
(87,894 posts)I am sure it will be one to bash the President. Go Vols! Trash away.
Moderate Repukes always support LGBT and give them the right to marry? Moderate Repukes love women and never would revoke their right to choice and equal pay? Moderate Repukes love the environment so much and the people that will die if we do not act now tell us it is a hoax. Moderate Repukes believe in trickle down economics. That has worked so well. Moderate Repukes give tax cuts to the wealth and deny affordable health care to the poor and suffering middle class. Moderate Repukes believe mass murder of unarmed black men is great policing.
Obama is a moderate Repuke? Seriously?
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)read his lips
sheshe2
(87,894 posts)
K
So you are saying repukes believe and stand for all I posted for what Obama stands for!!!????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
HMOG!
If that is a fact I sure as hell would love some links where the GOP Pukes stand for anyone but themselves.
Put up!
I am simply saying watch the vid posted above.
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)A group of Democratic lawmakers in Wisconsin blocked passage of a sweeping anti-union bill Thursday by ignoring orders to attend a vote. Instead, they left the state to force Republicans to negotiate over the proposal.
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/17/133847336/wis-democratic-lawmakers-flee-to-prevent-vote
Throd 2.0
(62 posts)Put one on your car.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)I have to wonder why I still vote Democrat after reading posts like this.
OrwellwasRight
(5,214 posts)After all, we are under a strict new set of rules regarding respect and civility. I'm disgusted by this OP.
George II
(67,782 posts)OrwellwasRight
(5,214 posts)No personal attacks or flaming
"Do not post in a manner that is hostile, abusive, or aggressive toward any member of this community."
There are white working class people on DU. They were all just told to fuck off. That's pretty aggressive.
No divisive group attacks
"Do not smear, insult, vilify, bait, maliciously caricature, or give disrespectful nicknames to any groups of people that are part of the Democratic coalition,"
There are white working class people on DU. They were just all smeared as ignorant for not accepting the education that the OP deigns to give them ("As for white working class people? Yeah, their plight sucks. 99% of it is their own fault for hanging on to their own petty bigotries and hanging on to their own ignorance and refusing education when it was offered . . "
, but frankly they were also told that the OP "gave" them healthcare. I'm sorry, that is fucking O-FENCE-IVE and if it is not a group attack, a vilification, and an insult, then I don't know what is.
No bigotry/insensitivity
"Members are expected to respect diversity and demonstrate an appropriate level of sensitivity when discussing related topics . . .or other forms of bigoted intolerance are not permitted."
Unless of course you are a DU member who is of the white working class. Then you can fuck off and everyone on DU can be intolerant of you. Apparently.
George II
(67,782 posts)....and gave proper attribution.
OrwellwasRight
(5,214 posts)that violation of the TOS was OK so long as you write that someone else said it first. Thanks for letting me know. 
George II
(67,782 posts)....it's commonly accepted here.
As my mentor at my first job as an engineer 47 years ago told me, "a little profanity goes a long way".
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)Response to NobodyHere (Reply #141)
jack_krass This message was self-deleted by its author.
OrwellwasRight
(5,214 posts)
Just read this again:
"we" . . . "gave" . . . "them"?
Since when was health care "ours" to "give"? Or retraining or anything else for that matter? We live in a society in which we all contribute and we all get to make the rules. "Liberals" did not "give" anything. Congress voted for, and the president signed, the ACA and all other laws. Paid for by taxes or by borrowing, not because some benevolent political power chose to be generous.
And who are "they" anyway? Didn't all similarly situated citizens get to partake evenly in the laws you refer to?
This is liberal elitism at its finest. Nobody wants to be "given"anything by your magnanimity. Working class folks want economic justice. That means we all get a say, not just the liberals on high who believe they are smart enough to make the rules for the rest of us.
PS the working class is made up of people of all colors.
This is the kind of attitude that helps prompt a voter backlash.
morganallen
(53 posts)You know that's at the very least what he's thinking...
jzodda
(2,124 posts)All the hate...
I'm white and working class and proud to be a progressive.
I'm starting to feel less comfortable here. I have always hated the racist notion that generalizes about a whole group but then you get the obligatory. Oh but not you. Or well you are one of the good ones.
I've gotten it over being Italian my whole life with the never ending mafia jokes. It disgusts me and now it's here on DU of all places.
What trump is doing is unleashing hate but we can do better. We can show another path.
jalan48
(14,486 posts)One would think minorities would be building bridges instead of engendering hate. I fear the White Supremacists are going to get the race war they want.
yagotme
(3,945 posts)and threads like this do not help in the least. I 'was" WWC, now retired, and I felt offended by reading the OP. I know the OP has told others "I didn't mean you.", but do we all have to go to the OP and receive penance? The article paints with a mile-wide brush, and just invites the RW to respond with equivalent hate, or worse, I fear. After all, what's one of the best ways to start a fight with someone, especially someone you don't know? Tell them to f* off. Just because of race/class.
ram2016
(3 posts)We'll continue to lose elections with this type of attitude.
Yes, there are parts of the white working class that are racist, but there are other parts who feel neglected etc. A lot of these voters voted for OBAMA and then voted for Trump. Was it a stupid decision? Absolutely. But Hillary was a fundamentally flawed candidate, and the party had the choice to pick someone else, but did not.