Would this have been so horrible?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

By all means, let's shoot for the mythical middle and tell the Liberal Base to sit down and shut up because they're too extreme to win in the general election.

Meanwhile Republicans get to have their extremist candidate.

[msongs]

1. the democratic primary is over nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

2. LOL!!!

[Duckhunter935]

83. Tell that to all of the posters

Slamming Bernie and his supporters. Your silence in those dozens of threads is deafening.

[Hortensis]

89. Let's begin vocab 101 then. "Liberal base," Spitfire?

Mainstream liberals are the liberal base of the Democratic Party.

Why would the Sanders fringe who rejected the Democratic Party and its candidate try to identify themselves as "liberal base" when they spend an entire election season opposing what is by far the largest bloc of liberals in the nation?

I suggest Sanders populists, or just left-wing populists for those who were actually from the left.

[pnwmom]

93. And minority voters are the biggest part of that base. n/t

[Hortensis]

94. Not really, PnwMom. Half of all minorities are conservative

in personality (roughly half--it varies by background of course). Hard to know how many of those choose to protect themselves against the GOP by joining, or voting, Democrat, but it's a significant number. Just look at the currently relatively monolithic black voting bloc.

Whereas, roughly half of all whites--still the largest voting block in the nation--are liberal, and a very, very large majority of those are, or reliably vote, Democrat.

[Exilednight]

96. what you describe as liberal is actually a progressive.

Or possibly a neo-liberals if they believe markets at the solution to our ills.

There is a difference between progressives vs liberals vs neo-liberals.

[Hortensis]

97. "They," Exiled? I am a lifelong strong liberal and

will die one. Although I'm perfectly willing to make big, even huge changes when appropriate and doable, I am not a rigidly righteous radical because I respect the needs and wishes of other groups and the need to work with others to achieve change that is supported by a majority. Very like those in the liberal and conservative progressive groups that made the New Deal take the limited form it did in spite of radical pushing for true anti-capitalism revolution.

As for progressivism, our Declaration of Independence and Constitution are both profoundly liberal and also intrinsically progressive. James Madison and other founders had no other government, ancient or present, to model ours on. It was unique in both respects in that era.

Although it's possible theoretically to be liberal and not progressive, in this era virtually all liberals in America have been very progressive for more than a century, and somewhat always. Progressivism in government and the principle of equality are the two largest differences between liberals and conservatives, the first arising from the second. That "government of, by and for the people" thing.

Btw, today's conservative attempts to banish liberalism, equality, and government of, by and for the people, with them--of course--progressive government, are merely continuations of a battle that began in the Revolutionary era. Conservatives of those days lost then but today's are determined to "fix" America now. Those few who understand what's going on, of course.

[Exilednight]

98. There is so much wrong with your statement.

America was not the first democracy. Ancient Greeks of Athens was the first to coin the term. Roman Republic, Sparta, even England had a form of representative democracy, hence the cry "no taxation without representation". Washington fashioned himself as Cincinnatus, the Roman Emporor.

America was founded on classical liberalism, not modern day liberalism. Modern day progressivism wasn't even defined until the late 19th, early 20th century. Modern day liberalism is based upon the idea of social and economic justice, also know as social liberalism.

With the 3/5ths clause, I would find it impossible to believe that our constitution had anything to do with modern day liberalism.

Neo-liberalism is the belief that all issues can be solved through economics. Example: gay marriage should be legal, not because it's a social injustice, but because it would add money to the economy. This is also known as third-way.

[hueymahl]

99. Wow, great post

Please keep up the information. A lot of ignorance on this site about what words really mean. And if you can't agree on the meaning of words, how can you have an effective debate?

Thanks!

[Hortensis]

107. Ancient Greece and Rome had no concept of equality or

inborn human rights as stated in our Declaration of Independence. Rights, and/or lack of them, came with position--those at the top with the most, slaves at the bottom with none. Most people were considered born into various degrees of bondage, and "liberty" was something that was only given meaning by its degree within a hierarchy. Our southern states tended to be initially modeled after the classic Roman and Greek republics, paving the way for slavery.

Our concepts of equality and inalienable rights came from northern European cultures--German, Scandinavian, Netherlands, English--where freedom was a birthright, i.e., people were born free and possessed rights regardless of status. Tribes usually governed through assemblies, Scottish clans elected their leaders, etc. The world's first national parliament formed in Iceland over 1000 years ago (and continues today).

Our northeastern states were modeled on this belief system, as old as the Mediterranean ones more written about. And many of the things our revolution achieved had already been done a couple centuries earlier in The Netherlands, including declaring a right of the people to rebel against oppression and do away with kings. Nevertheless, the structure and principles of our new republic were unlike any others to that date, which had formed over centuries. And it was no accident that slavery never "took" in the north. People expected to pay in some way for assistance in their work, the way their ancestors had for untold centuries.

In trying to understand what's happening in American today, it's extremely important to consider that the greatest difference, of a number, between conservative and liberal personality is in attitudes toward equality. Greek and Roman beliefs on this were intrinsically extremely conservative, the northern European intrinsically liberal. Most conservatives in America do not support liberal notions of equality, and this is a major factor in their belief that the government that liberals of the revolutionary era succeeded in establishing is fundamentally flawed and "broken."

We liberals, of course, disagree not just in our guts or our bones but, as science has discovered, even down to a genetic level.

It's also discovered that people and cultures in hot climates are more conservative on average. (Check that one out with national and global political maps.) Something else to think about as the globe heats up...

[Exilednight]

108. Our Constitution had a form of hierarchy, too.

At first only white males who owned property could vote, and at the time, even before, slavery was in every state, not just the south.

Liberals don't believe in the genetic aspect, that was/is believed by the progressive philosophers, not social liberals.

Everything you claim in your liberal values line up perfectly with progressive values.

[Hortensis]

109. Yes, we did have conservative founders and, not

surprisingly in a legislature, they did also have some say in the formation of our government--notably right now, of course, they were responsible for the electoral college.

People who read about the amazing, and fascinating, scientific advances in understanding the human brain DO understand that there is a "genetic aspect," as well as environmental. It's even often possible to tell liberals from conservatives and vice versa by brain imaging. Like muscles, greater and lesser use of some parts of the brain seemingly affects their size. We even process information in different orders.

Interestingly, tendencies to extremism on left or right so far apparently correlate more with environment than genetics, although definitely genetic correlations have been measured. I'm thinking here of what happens to the brains and thinking (or lack of it) of people who surround themselves with narrow and/or extreme points of view, such as in certain religious groups and political forums. The brain gets "rewired" as a result of chosen environmental influences. It can be a very damaging syndrome.

As for your last, didn't I just point out that virtually all liberals, from the founding of our nation right up through today believe in progressive government? You know, the government of, by and for the people thing? You don't get more progressive than that. This is a basic way of viewing government that strong conservatives don't share. We think we run OUR government. Strong conservatives tend to think THE government runs them and are anywhere from very happy to very unhappy with that depending on how well the government suits them.

Progressivism is huge. Certainly it's incredibly more than just a label to rip off someone else's forehead and slap on one's own. Imo, you should be proud that you are progressive (I assume) and not be unhappy that many millions of others are too.

After all, a very slightly larger voting majority and we'd be talking about how college is going to be made affordable, and how much. Not about whether someone who burned a flag could have his citizenship revoked (presumably after another arch-conservative or two were seated on SCOTUS).

[Exilednight]

110. Again, you got so much wrong.

As for your last, didn't I just point out that virtually all liberals, from the founding of our nation right up through today believe in progressive government? You know, the government of, by and for the people thing? You don't get more progressive than that.

That's classic liberalism, not progressivism.

Progressivism is a separate political philosophy.

I'm actually a liberal, not a progressive. I don't believe we are genetically hard wired to believe one thing vs another - that's a progressive (for some because it is controversial in the progressive field) belief. I believe we can actually change the way people approach problems and even change the way they analyze things.

I'll use your own example:

Progressives look for a way to make college affordable for students.

Liberals look for ways to eliminate the cost of college for students.

[Hortensis]

111. No. There's no reason someone can't develop a

"philosophy" and name it progressivism, but the name's already in widespread use, so obviously there will be confusion.

At its core, progressives believe in taking action to improve and advance the human condition. This can be done by virtually any size group. A church that teaches homeless people how to handle a job interview and gives them clothes to wear is progressive in its actions, even if it's a conservative religion.

Many others churches believe that is very wrong. They instead give sermons on how people who are poor and hungry are reaping the results of their own unworthiness and how feeding them only hurts them and their children in the end because it encourages unworthy behaviors. This is anti-progressive.

To put it mildly, and there are lots of them out there doing just this. Because THIS is a huge difference between liberal and conservative thought and methods in action. This and issues of equality are behind 90% of all our political battles. Social scientists say conservatives tend to have a "belief in a just world," whether secular or religious, and that progressive interference with the natural order only ends up causing problems.

So much for that.

Btw, the thought that global warming could make billions of people more conservative, and the ramifications of that, is something that has kept me up at night. This in view of the growth of hard-core right-wing movements in many nations and what's happening in ours.

Now I read a piece by a political scientist who's been analyzing changes in liberal democracies around the planet and think they may have entered an era of decline starting about 2005--as support for authoritarian fascistic governments grows. He doesn't think his analysis is definitive but definitely worrying.

A whole series of record-breaking years for heat, and an incredibly sordid and immoral authoritarian who hangs with far-right extremists is elected president. Coincidence or an incredibly huge factor beyond hopes of arresting?

[Exilednight]

112. These words have actual definitions. theyre not labels, they're words

with meaning.

[sheshe2]

3. One must win the primary to run in the general election.

That is how it works.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

5. We leaned after Florida in 2000 it helps to have your campaign manager run the election.

[sheshe2]

9. Ah....

Another stolen election story?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

10. Play that for yourself....

I feel vindicated.

[sheshe2]

13. Nah....

It's all yours.

[BainsBane]

84. Keep that up

Cling to bullshit conspiracy theories rather that thinking about how you might positively promote a candidate in the future. You wouldn't actually what to win over supporters when it's so much more satisfying to repel them.

It's astounding to me that you can keep up those obviously empty claims after watching the GE. DWS and Hillary personally manipulated over 16 million Americans into voting for Clinton and also arranged the GOP nomination of Trump--so we heard time and time again. Yet somehow the Clinton omnipotence didn't extend to the GE or the 2008 primary. Eichenwald was right. You all have no idea what the DNC even does, and you seem determined to keep it that way. Your problem was not the DNC. It was that this country allows women and people of color to vote, and the great majority of us didn't find Sanders convincing. What I've seen since has only further convinced me that I made the right decision.

[George II]

86. Remember, the "manipulation" started when Sanders' campaign hacked into Clinton's DNC database!

[George II]

85. You feel "vindicated" because Donald Trump won?

[bravenak]

91. So fucked up

[Starry Messenger]

4. Simon & Garfunkle?

Bernie wasn't extreme, just out of touch with the new America.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

6. That's why he couldn't get young people to support him.

[Starry Messenger]

7. Not the majority multi-racial coalition.

[sheshe2]

8. Yup!

[Starry Messenger]

16. Facing why he lost causes them to meltdown.

I know a few people who were for him who are honest about it, they are the ones who will actually be useful allies in the future.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

20. He lost because the attitude was the Party belongs to the Clintons....

Just take a breath and think about something.

Who's next?

Hillary won't run again.

Bernie wont run again.

Elizabeth Warren will be 71 in 2020.

Where is the next generation of Democratic leaders going to come from?

Chelsea?

[Starry Messenger]

22. He lost because he is a terrible organizer and a one-note candidate.

He was also an Indie, with very little portfolio.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

27. There are some here that would prefer Bernie over Trump....

Are you one of them?

[Starry Messenger]

28. That doesn't even make sense.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

36. Sure it does....

If Bernie had been the Democratic nominee you would have supported him and all he stood for.

Right?

[Starry Messenger]

39. Of course.

But he had to win the primary, and he had no plan to succeed at that.

I would have supported him knowing that he'd probably have cratered like Mondale.

ALL he stood for, no. His stance on things like insisting that diversity is tokenism is stupid. I never vote for anyone supporting ALL they stand for.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

42. "diversity is tokenism"

Link?

[Starry Messenger]

45. All of his quotes on the subject.

Start with his NPR interview where he said Black people voted for Obama because he was Black and work your way forward.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

49. So you think that means he's a racist?

[Starry Messenger]

52. No, it means he is out of touch and used a losing strategy. I'm so sad this is so hard for you.

And he would have "won the rural vote" like McGovern did.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

58. We heard the "McGovern" argument back then too....

Stupid argument.

It's based on the idea that the country will not vote for a liberal.

Ever.

Till the end of time.

[Starry Messenger]

60. Well, McGovern lost. I was only 2 years old at the time

so I guess despite you crying that you rep the youth vote, I'm a lot younger than you. I can look up and read electoral maps tho.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

66. So you know the "pattern" the media uses is bogus....

They act like blue states and red states have always been the way they are with a few swing states.

California voted for Nixon twice, then Ford, then Reagan twice, then Bush I, then it voted for Clinton and was written off as "The Left Coast" till the end of time despite 24 years of supporting Republicans,...including providing two former governors as two term presidents.

The "McGovern" argument was used by the DLC to justify selling out the working class for a "centrist" losing strategy of enlisting Republican-lite types to loose elections. They were pro-gun and anti-abortion.

Remember the claim that only a Southern Democrat could win the White House?

Look at Carter and Clinton.

Obama sure screwed that talking point up.

[JI7]

69. the change is california is because of demographic changes. whites left the state

and there are more hispanics now than during nixon, reagan etc l.


and minorities together make up a majority of the voters.

[Starry Messenger]

71. CA demographics have changed the electoral population here.

Your post is incoherent. If you knew anything about CA, you'd know that hardline Republicans shot themselves in the ass here after the early 90's with Latino voters. We went left by carefully and diligently working to form a winning multi-racial coalition--which voted for Hillary in the primary.

We also just raised taxes on Millionaires and legalized pot, and are the state with the highest number of votes for Hillary. Getting a left wing coalition isn't done by running Simon and Garfunkle white Boomer pron (and is there even an issue raised in that silly ad? Lol)

[Spitfire of ATJ]

72. This just proves my point that the country is a lot more Liberal than some think....

Reagan would be considered no better than Fidel by today's Republicans.

The Democrats keep trying to meet them half way.

It's gotten so bad that a group of elder Republicans had to go to Trump Tower to tell the assembled lunatics that assassinating Hillary wouldn't help Trump get elected.

No more reaching out to Republicans.

[Starry Messenger]

76. I thought you wanted to flip rural voters?

"No more reaching out to Republicans." Because doing that is exactly what you now say not to do--they have been Republican for decades.

Bernie's strategy was to try to appeal to their economic self-interest. So did Hillary. I'm game to hear what the new plan is though, since the armchair quarterbacks here seem to think they have the answers.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

77. I'm a classic Blue Collar Democrat....

Old enough to remember when Democrats gave speeches in Union Halls.

[Starry Messenger]

78. I am too. This one was great:

https://m.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

79. The rank and file preferred Bernie.

[Starry Messenger]

80. Nope.

The working class voted for Hillary. Your desperate moving of the goalpost noted though.

"Most notably, Sanders topped Clinton by 15 percentage points in the $75,000-$99,000 income bracket"

http://ijr.com/2015/10/438587-bernie-sanders-lefts-middle-class-candidate-latest-poll-says/

[JHan]

102. This is purely anecdotal from me...

but most of the bernie or busters I know are middle to upper middle class...

Again, just my observation.

[Starry Messenger]

103. Same here. Very little skin in the game.

They could take the risk because they know they will be fine.

[uponit7771]

106. No, the rank and file in the DNC is minorities and single white women and they did NOT prefer

... Sanders by the tune of 3 million votes.

Come on people, like Hanks said "we've browned a little" and that's a fact that's not in dispute.

Also, I think there's a message that's getting crossed here...

Some people act like we can win the rural areas... no... we can't flip rural areas no more than a GOPr can flip inner cities but our message is greater and we can lose by a lot less in rural areas though.

GOPrs can't lose by a lot less in inner cities.

There's no need to flip those area's, just get the message out and get people thinking

[LisaM]

101. The last speech I heard in a union hall was Tom Harkin in 1992

It was a great speech. It got zero coverage on the news. Most of the union halls in the Belltown area of Seattle (where that was held) are gone now. Tom Harkin was a union-loving firebrand and he got no traction in 1992.

[sheshe2]

26. When you are done with your little roll on the floor....

Perhaps you would like to have a serious discussion.

I will gave you a few off the top of my head when you are done bashing the Clintons.

Kamala Harris. Julian Castro. Maura Healey.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

29. Sheila Jackson Lee on your list?

[sheshe2]

34. I told you a few off the top of my head.

I don't known them all, this was suppose to start a conversation. Never mind, I see you are not interested.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

43. How about a visit to the Progressive Caucus?

I promise you wont get cooties.

[sheshe2]

54. After your performance in this thread, no thanks.

I will go and talk to liberals that don't snark on everyone. They actually have conversations. I threw out a couple names of good people that might help us in the future, you just snarked.

Night night.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

56. See? You feel you don't need us to win.

[sheshe2]

63. Wow....I love your comment!!!!!

See? You feel you don't need us to win.

Sad that after all this you continue to divide our party. This isn't about Progressive vs Liberal. We are the Democratic party. Stop drawing lines in the sand.

You went up and down this thread snarking at me and starry messenger as well. Funny, we are both women and AA posters. Hmmmm. Do you not need us to win???? Stop telling us we are nothing.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

67. You wouldn't have to call yourself "Progressive" if you stopped thinking of "Liberal" as bad.

[sheshe2]

73. Is this suppose to mean something?

You wouldn't have to call yourself "Progressive" if you stopped thinking of "Liberal" as bad.

Why would I think Liberal is bad when I consider myself to be a Liberal Democrat. Frankly, I don't need a label to define myself. Being a Democrat is good enough for me. I know what I want or at least wish for. It won't happen in my lifetime, yet I have my wish list.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

74. I've met a lot of people who run from the label.

[sheshe2]

75. Oooookkkkkk

You make no sense.

We are done.

[sheshe2]

21. I have several friends as well that felt that way.

As soon as the primary was over they said okay, I am with Hillary now.

They are good Dems.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

25. I voted for her.....

So did most of my friends.

Felt kinda like when I voted for Kerry.

It wasn't for him, it was against Bush.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

11. To listen to Hillary supporters you'd think Bernie is as racist as Trump.

[Starry Messenger]

12. Sad strawman is sad.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

15. You didn't notice that?

[Starry Messenger]

17. That you didn't understand what I posted? That was glaringly obvious.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

18. Deflect much?

[Starry Messenger]

19. What did I deflect?

I am posting exactly what I said in my first post. Bernie was an out of touch candidate that tried to do an end-run around the Obama coalition to try to re-cobble together the New Deal coalition--which is exactly what he's always said he intended to try. He did, it failed, move on.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

23. Did you ever even listen to his stump speech?

It was about ISSUES and not charming stories about a person from somewhere who did something or other.

[Starry Messenger]

24. He only had the one speech-I heard it several times.

Connecting issues to people's stories is called the Ganz Method, and is a well-known organizing technique. It wins elections, as proven by Hillary.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

31. It's all a formula with you?

[emulatorloo]

33. Bernie told stories about people too.

[Starry Messenger]

35. Now you know why Bernie crashed and burned.

If that isn't an object of the least curiosity to you, anyone you support will lose again.

Fortunately I don't think the next economically leftmost candidate will be as stupid as to ignore the Obama coalition.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

38. Uh huh, let's use the word "leftmost" as a slur. That'll attract the youth vote.

[Starry Messenger]

41. Um, what?

You obviously came to this argument armed with a butter knife, so I guess I should stop baiting you out of kindness.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

44. You call this an argument?

[Starry Messenger]

46. No, it's really just like watching a little kid hitting himself.

Have fun relitigating Bernie's failure. I'm out.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

47. So you refuse to accept we would be better off...

Bernie would have won the rural vote.

[moda253]

95. Are you fucking high?

Rural Americans that voted for trump weren't going to vote for an aging self described socialist Jewish guy from New York. We likely ALL would have. But I am sorry the people that voted for Trump would not have.

[emulatorloo]

30. I noticed you posted a strawman.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

32. I saw it here as well....

Civil Rights was one of Bernie's strengths so that had to be destroyed.

[emulatorloo]

37. No, you saw AA posters offering Bernie advice on how to reach out to AA voters better

And then you saw thin-skinned posters twisting their words into "You said Bernie is a Racist!"

I am a Bernie primary supporter, I saw all of this because I spend way too much fucking time on DU.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

40. Wrong. Example: Hillary supporters claimed pictures of him weren't him.

[emulatorloo]

48. So? It was based on an MSM story, Was quickly disproven and nobody said that meant he was a "racist"

The reporter was wrong, the widow who said it was her husband was wrong, it was discredited and that was it

Meanwhile one of the BS Group's heroes said African American and LGBT voters were mentally ill (Stockholm Syndrome) simply because they preferred another primary candidate. So many recs, so many accolades! 0nly Bluenorthwest pushed back on it.

Don't get me started regarding the hypocrisy regarding BLM amonsgst these alleged Sanders supporters. Because I have lots of links on that.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

50. Claiming this wasn't him....

[Spitfire of ATJ]

57. Some of us remember. Some choose not to.

[emulatorloo]

62. hey, We are both Bernie people, and I just hate reliving the bad old days

reliving the bad old days of GD: Primary 2016. I am gonna delete most of my posts. I wish you well, have always loved reading you posts! Looking forward to reading more!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

68. It's the autopsy....

It takes guts.

[emulatorloo]

70. And maybe more beer.

[sheshe2]

64. 1000

Meanwhile one of the BS Group's heroes said African American and LGBT voters were mentally ill (Stockholm Syndrome) simply because they preferred another primary candidate. So many recs, so many accolades! 0nly Bluenorthwest pushed back on it.

Don't get me started regarding the hypocrisy regarding BLM amonsgst these alleged Sanders supporters. Because I have lots of links on that.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

55. Does the term "Troll" ever occur to you?

For all you know some Republican was posing as a Bernie supporter just to piss off Hillary supporters.

At our open caucus there was a guy there who was anti-Hillary/pro-Bernie over the issue of guns and guns alone. In the general he intended to vote for the Republican anyway.

We had lots of agent provocateurs here.

Mix that with the 90% Bernie support here and it left Hillary supporters feeling picked on. After she won the primary some of them acted like any further mention of Bernie should mean an instant ban.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

61. Back in the 70s the Democratic Party was very disorganized....

I'm afraid we're going to fall back into the "Herding Cats" crap.

The kind of thing where someone wanting to save the whales and someone wanting to save the forests interacts like this:

Greenpeace guy: We should save the whales.

Tree hugger: Oh so you want to cut down all of the forests?

Greenpeace guy: What?

Tree hugger: Don't you care about our national parks?

Enter - Clean Air guy: Both of you are gonna get us all killed!!!

[emulatorloo]

65. Hilarious! I don't think it will be bad as that this time!

Gonna be a struggle for us to get this figured out. However w Trump, we're gonna be pretty damn motivated to get our act together quickly. Big hopes for 2018 here.

Hey I deleted many of my posts see #62 about why. Always enjoy your posts! Have a great night and !

[Mike Nelson]

81. It's bad...

...that Hillary did receive the "super-majority" now needed for a Democrat to win the Presidency. She and Bernie would have been great in their new positions! We should be proud of them and focus on the future.

[BainsBane]

82. There is something called elections

Last edited Mon Nov 28, 2016, 07:01 AM - Edit history (1)

He LOST badly. No one stopped you from voting for your choice. What you didn't get to do was compel others to vote as you demanded, though we know many tried hard to enforce obedience to Sanders. I know it sucks that other people besides you actually get to vote. You can either deal with it and move on or join with the GOP in stripping away the voting rights act and repealing the 19th amendment, because absent that Bernie was never going to win.


If I were ever to forget why I found that campaign so off-putting, I need only come to DU to remind me of the impenetrable sense of self-entitlement it was based on. Maybe next time you want someone to win, try positive persuasion instead of insisting on absolute deference? Maybe try actually working to turn out voters instead of insulting Democratic voters and ginning up bullshit conspiracy theories to explain a candidate's failures? And in the meantime, stop working so hard to remind people why they disliked your candidate in the first place.

BTW, liberals voted for Clinton. You don't get to argue he would have done better with white male GOP voters and then claim liberals were told to shut up. It is the votes of liberals you are discounting. Sanders stayed in the primary a full three months after it was obvious he couldn't win, and to this day he is front of cameras several times a week. No one shut him or his supporters up. He LOST plain and simple.

Every moronic conspiracy theory about Clinton rigging the elections has been proven for the craven lies they were by the results of the GE. It's time to move on. Christ, you don't see this much whining from Clinton supporters, and the GE was only a couple of weeks ago. It really is pathetic.

[ismnotwasm]

87. Republicans and every third party shithead voter out there

And every asshole who tore Hillary down with lies, innunendo and RW bullshit. They own this. And I am not talking about legitimate criticism, I'm talking about the bullshit Donald Trump himself picked up and used when it suited him. Sanders would have lost, but in the unlikely event he would have won, he would have had to back peddle on every campaign promise. And back-peddle hard. It's wouldn't have been "horrible" but it would have been sad.

I believe Sanders ran as a political experiment, a way to get a message out--a vision if you will. His message is still out there. He still has true believers, he still affects politics, he still has influence and power but he didn't engage enough of America to win the primary, whether one believes the primaries were fair or not. He didn't have the votes. He didn't have the votes. One more time, he didn't have the votes. He didn't inspire the minority "base"-----to paraphrase here, by all means, lets pander to the mythical "Liberal base"--the ones I'm assuming couldn't even carry the primary, (because although I consider myself a liberal I am impure apparently because I supported Hillary)--- and ignore every fucking body else.

[still_one]

88. Excuse me, but those Sanders supporters and self identified progressives get trump because

they refused to vote for Hillary

Michigan. Hillary lost by .3%. Jill Stein received 1.1% of the vote

Similar things in Wisconsin and other critical states

Spew all the bullshit you want, but that is the fact that their refusal to vote for Hillary put trump where he is

The glaring fact that Russ Feingold and Zypher Teachout also lost can also be laid at their feet, since many of those self-identified progressives didn't even bother to vote

Every establishment republican incumbent in swing states running for Senate won

If you are looking for blame it is staring you right in the face

[bravenak]

90. Plus a billion

I wont forget being threatened with Trump if I didn't do exactly as they said. Well, they gave us Trump as revenge. I mist certainly wont be dealing with them or engaging with them next time. They might as well get over it. He lost. We lost. They won, they got Donald over Hillary and paid us back for not doing their bidding. They can miss me with the i told you sos.

We told them that Donald was far far worse than Hillary coukd be on her worst day and his best. They decided to spread hate against her to make her lose. I saw them say it.

All we need to do is get out more of our voters in swing states.

[otohara]

92. I Blame Them 100%

And now they are so quite - especially those surrogates and lefty media types who demonized Hillary to Sanders fan base. But I especially am angry with those surrogates who helped drive down minority votes.

Cenk - Muslims getting harassed
Killer Mike - Blacks getting harassed
David Sirota - Swastikas
Shaun King - Blacks getting harassed

crickets.

[hueymahl]

100. Hillary lost those states because she ran a terrible campaign

Deflecting to third parties "what if" scenarios is pathetic and dooms us to repeat our mistakes.

I will say it again - Hillary lost those deep blue states because she ran a terrible campaign. It really is inexcusable.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

104. Bernie could never get enough swing voting moderates to win

And the oppo research they had on him would have led to a far worse defeat.

Hillary was an excellent candidate who wanted to try to push Bernie's do-able policy positions. She bent over backwards to try to satisfy the far left and still many shit on her.

[Hekate]

105. The verse that always stuck with me was despairing: "Kathy I'm lost I said, tho I knew she was ....

"Kathy I'm lost, I said, tho I knew she was sleeping. I'm empty and aching and I don't know why. Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike -- They've all come to look for America..."

I know that song by heart, back from when it first came out. Want me to sing the rest of the album? It's very angsty.

When Bernie picked that one as his campaign theme, I was frankly baffled. The song is not one of hope in a bright tomorrow. It's about two young people who kinda run away together, smoke all their cigarettes inside the bus, and then as she sleeps he begins to brood over his lack of direction in life and probable failure.

Bernie had and has his fans, okay. But the entire Convention where Hillary was officially nominated reminded me strongly of Reagan's motto Morning in America. (The RNC, in stark contrast, was Armageddon on steroids.) Hillary truly had the more optimistic and inclusive message, and she won by 2.5 million votes more than Mad King Donald.