If this is true, something is really stinking to high heaven H gets 23,700 votes back in PA.

[boston bean]

With a recount effort now underway in the three razor-tight swing states of Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, it turns out Hillary Clinton has already moved closer to winning those states than had originally been announced. In the past two weeks Michigan and Wisconsin have both voluntarily revised the size of Donald Trump’s “win” downward by thousands of votes each. And now Pennsylvania has shrunk the size of Trump’s win by tens of thousands of votes.


It’s important to understand that these revisions have been made by the states before the recounts even got underway. These shifts in the vote totals have been based on precincts revising their own numbers, either because they caught errors of their own accord, or in some instances because internet gawkers spotted numerical impossibilities that forced those precincts to check themselves. But the sudden shift in Pennsylvania voting totals is dramatic, in that it wipes out around one-third of Trump’s lead in the state ahead of the recount.

Here’s what happened: according to this USA Today article and several other sources, the vote totals in Pennsylvania had Donald Trump winning by 70,638 votes – a number which was often quoted as a reason for why Hillary Clinton would supposedly have no chance of flipping the state in a recount. But earlier today, the respected Decision Desk HQ posted the newly revised totals from Pennsylvania, which have Donald Trump ahead by just 46,938 votes. That means Trump’s lead in the state has now shrunk by 23,700 votes, based on what it says are newly revised numbers out of Philadelphia.


http://www.palmerreport.com/news/hillary-clinton-catches-20000-votes-pennsylvania-recount-begins/305/

[jonno99]

1. From what I've seen these were "provisional" ballots that were finally counted and added

to the totals.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

2. I read the same thing

provisional ballots and absentees.

[Amishman]

4. this, its not unusual to have numbers change. and Provisional ballots and absentees usually lean D

this type of thing is the reason it takes them a few weeks to release the official numbers. They do a lot of counting and checking, which is why the numbers change.

[Kolesar]

8. Greg Palast said election officials dump most of the provisional votes

These vote counters are under scrutiny so they are trying to appear more proper and not dispose of votes on arbitrary grounds.

[Ken Burch]

11. Clearly, we are going to need to push through legislation, if we ever get Congress back,

requiring all provisional ballots to be counted.

[still_one]

12. He said the same thing about California during the primaries. I don't know how other states do it

but California counts ALL ballots including provisional ones. NOTHING is thrown away

So he was absolutely wrong in regard to California during the primaries.

Someone also posted a few days ago Ohio does the same thing

[SickOfTheOnePct]

17. In Virginia

valid provisional ballots are counted, invalid ones are tossed; however, voters have until the Monday after the election to provide the required documentation in order for the ballot to be counted, and voters have the right to be there with the county election board meets to decide on which ballots will be counted and which won't.

[still_one]

19. of course adequate checks are done to insure double voting isn't occurring, the person

is registered to vote, etc.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

20. Agree

One thing I like about the way CA does provisional ballots, and something I wish VA would switch to is the out-of-precinct voting. In CA, if you vote out of precinct, so long as you're registered, they'll still count your votes for statewide candidates. In VA, if you vote out of precinct, they toss the whole ballot.

[mcar]

3. Why were these states called?

Makes no sense.

[Amishman]

5. because the number of votes outstanding was not enough to come close to swinging the election

Even with this reduction in the margin, it still is more than the 0.5% to trigger a close election auto-recount.

MI is the closest and was not called for a while, because they did do an automatic recount.

WI have don't know enough about to say. If we find anything funny, it might be there. (but i doubt it)

[texasmomof3]

6. ALL states do this....

They get an initial count and then they go back and recount to double check and it takes weeks. That is why Michigan just certified their vote last week.

[humbled_opinion]

7. If a recount in any of the three states

creates the conditions that mean Hillary wins that state, don't you think the entire country will go batshit crazy about how it could have happened.. It will undermine the entire election system

[Skittles]

9. it should undermine it

something was seriously wrong with this election, and that's besides the fact that Hillary had +2.5 million votes - we're talking a real bullshit electoral scenario - Trump just happens to get exactly what he needed - no wonder he "knew" he would win - he even spiffied up his hair in preparation

[ificandream]

10. Agreed...

... looking forward to the inevitable book by an investigative reporter who uncovers it all.

[humbled_opinion]

18. I just can't imagine

the scope of the conspiracy that would be required, I understand we are talking about reliably blue states here, but it isn't like the machines are connected to the internet so there couldn't be a hack in the conventional sense, and aren't there rules that Democratic and Republican poll watchers would ensure machines were not left alone on election day, anyway my point is if one states results get nullified because of fraud, there will be no coming back from that.

[radius777]

37. Trump's supporters are fanatical and conspiratorial,

therefore no formal conspiracy is required.

Comey, FBI, Rudy, Putin, Wiki, Trumper activists, GOP decades long voter suppression laws, alt-left/alt-right hatred of Hillary/Clintons/Obama, Trump talking up the idea that the other side is cheating therefore his side may need to cheat and intimidate also. Psychological projection.

[spooky3]

27. This (DU won't let me add carats)

I don't understand what appears to be some people's argument that it is better to hide a flawed count than to show citizens we can self correct and have integrity.

[maddiemom]

32. "Toned down," rather than "spiffed up," thankfully.

[radius777]

38. Exactly, it is already undermined, the election was a sham,

stolen in broad daylight, i.e. Comey, Wiki, Rudy, repeal of the VRA, voter suppression, intimidation, etc.

The polling averages consistently showed her leads which increased in the final month after she won all three debates, and all major prediction models showed her with strong odds of winning. Nobody in 68 years (since iirc 1948) has lost when having such strong/consistent leads that late in the game.

Comey/FBI intentionally threw threw the race into disarray, and then the Trump/GOP minions "finished the job" in the swing states.

[TrollBuster9090]

13. This Is Basically The Electoral Equivalent of The Olympic Committee Announcing

the electoral equivalent of the Olympic Committee announcing that they've got a new test that's guaranteed to detect the use of performance enhancing steroids on the first day of the Olympics, and a whole bunch of athletes suddenly decide to go home because they forgot they left their curling irons on. (ie-local returning officers who suddenly decided that they'd made 'adding errors' because it looks better if THEY catch the 'error' before the recount officials do.)

[SleeplessinSoCal]

14. Remember Beverly and black box voting? Keith Olbermann, only voice in the media - 2004.

The only good that I can see is that in 2006 Dems came roaring back. Otherwise, vote tampering continues. And we've lost democracy.

[byronius]

15. I have to say, if the situations were exactly reversed, and it was Trump calling for a recount --

I would absolutely insist on it. And I do not think it should have to be paid for privately. That's FUCKING RIDICULOUS.

In fact, if voting machines had malfunctioned or if citizens were denied the right to vote because of clerical errors in heavily Trump-favored districts, I would insist that they be given a second opportunity after great scrutiny of the local election systems and with all necessary resources provided, and furthermore that no vote be 'certified' until representatives from all parties are satisfied.

I feel this way because I am an American.

Citizen trust in the counting of the votes is paramount. More important than anything. The primary function of a democratic system.

Their reticence is evidence of criminal wrongdoing and treason.

[jmg257]

16. Turns out exit polls were pretty much acurate, and trump won in states they said he would.

What recounts will do is give his election some genuine legitimacy.

[spooky3]

28. "Turns out"?? The recounts have not been done yet.

Let's wait and see.

[jmg257]

29. I know the recounts haven't been finsihed; it is the exit polls are pretty much on. nt

[spooky3]

34. Unless you assume that the recounts will NOT

Change any outcome for WI, MU, or PA, you can't say whether the exit polls were correct for those states.

[jmg257]

36. Indeed - I am making that assumption, due to lack of evidence of another alternative.

Wishful as that may be.

[spooky3]

39. My point is that you can be wishful or not, but

Assessing the exit poll results and the extent to which you view them as consistent with the actual results doesn't make sense until all results are certified including the recounts.

And, a bigger question is whether the polls taken BEFORE voting started were truly wrong and if so, why.

[jmg257]

40. They certainly were suspicious - or not.

The pre-election polls vs the results were "suspicious", according to a computer scientist

"Were this year’s deviations from pre-election polls the results of a cyberattack? Probably not. I believe the most likely explanation is that the polls were systematically wrong, rather than that the election was hacked."

J. Halderman

https://medium.com/@jhalderm/want-to-know-if-the-election-was-hacked-look-at-the-ballots-c61a6113b0ba#.168pwqmmx

We also had these guys:

"Some data scientists and political statisticians, including FiveThirtyEight’s Nate Silver and The New York Times’ Nate Cohn, cast doubt on the claims, which compared voting in counties that used paper ballots with those that used electronic machines. Silver and Cohn said the suspicious results disappear when controlling for demographic factors like race and education"

But you are right - why not be sure? At the cost of a few million bucks - better to confirm the election results whichever way they go, and move on.

We did pick up a vote in Wisconsin!

[ffr]

21. Someone covering or trying to cover their tracks.

Dig deeper.

[duffyduff]

22. My gut feeling is she won all three states outright.

I was highly suspicious of Michigan right off the bat because the Detroit Free Press had called the state early on for Hillary Clinton on election night.

[womanofthehills]

35. I agree with you

I hope Jill gets to check out the provisional ballots too.

[tandem5]

23. Isn't statistically odd for all these error corrections to be in Clinton's favor?

Last edited Fri Dec 2, 2016, 01:38 AM - Edit history (1)

[TheFrenchRazor]

24. definitely. nt

[Amishman]

31. The PA adjustment is not odd

It is from the largest county, which would take the longest to process and have the most provisional and absentee ballots. It also is the bluest county in the state.

[UCmeNdc]

25. Someone is covering their back..........

Do a full recount!

[Achilleaze]

26. + 1,000

Full recount now.

[BSdetect]

30. How the fuck can an election be called when all this vote counting shit happens?

Sorry America, this system is stupid beyond belief.

[Land Shark]

33. Dirty Secret is many MILLIONS of votes uncounted even weeks after election

The media acts like it is all over but it's not. There are 35 days to compete counting.

The PA figures appear to be the total of absentees plus provisionals in the city of Philadelphia, where HRC got 82% of the machine vote and 85.5% of provisionals and 85% of absentees. Philly had not reported since 11/9.

When it says "100% of PRECINCTS reporting," note the word "precincts." In some places 100% will include absentees and mail vote, in others not. There needs to be several asterisks next to the figure of 100% reporting.