So, can we point out and strategize when Occupy is being

[Luminous Animal]

attacked in other forums on the board?

[unionworks]

1. from what I read in the rules

No. It would be considered disruption.

[JDPriestly]

2. What would we gain from that?

[Luminous Animal]

5. An opportunity to discuss disinformation and establish

a way to address it.

[sabrina 1]

10. Some thoughts ....

On deconstructing smears. We could do that several different ways. Eg, Keith Olbermann did it with Breitbart's phony list and drunken rant the other night. Maybe someone should be watching the Rightwing blogs which is generally where they come from.

I'm thinking of the one we had a few weeks ago which came from a far right fundie author and was proven to be totally false, right in the thread. The problem was it stayed up and was constantly kicked.

Maybe when something like that happens again, instead of kicking such a thread, start another thread with the facts. Posting the facts in the thread doesn't get the attention that starting a different thread with the facts, would get.

I refuse to comment in rightwing generated threads anymore. All it does is give them attention rather than letting them sink. I realized that a few months ago with another topic. Each time a thread on that topic was posted, I and others would try to correct wrong information or provide some balance. It was a waste of time, for one thing, because if someone is on a mission, you cannot change their minds. And all we were doing was keeping the threads visible.

So, I stopped posting in them altogether. Now they get maybe one or two comments and sink pretty fast. So what do you think about eg, checking out a story, if it is posted here, to see how much actual information is available and rather than kicking the thread, post a different one pointing out that once again, as KO does, the rightwing smear machine is at it again. If it is true, just leave it alone. There are bound to be things going on that are not perfect, the right will try to highlight them out of all proportion, so why help by going into such threads and keeping them alive?

[UnrepentantLiberal]

18. A yes,

that guy. I've had a few posts hidden for calling him what he is: a right wing troll.

I like the suggestions in this thread.

[Vincardog]

12. I believe that the best way to handle disinformation is to ignore the poster. You can spend a lot of

time and energy and have no more effect than if you were explaining Einstein to a rock.
When I see someone posting "bad" information I ask them
"Is this 'XXXX' what you mean? That implies 'YYYY' do you agree with 'YYYY"?"
If they answer the question they might be open to discussion and perhaps persuasion.
If they simply reiterate restate "XXXX' or go off on a tangent I believe it is time to move on.
You can not reason with a rock

[ellisonz]

3. I think generally it is a bad idea.

You are of course welcome to post information or use the personal messaging system, but staging for what could be termed "disruption" is probably just a bad idea. This reminds me of something we probably will need to add to whatever group guidelines are settled on.

[sabrina 1]

4. Probably the best way to do that is to post positive OPs. There is so much going on, not just

here in the US, but in other parts of the world, with the Occupy Movement. The right fears this movement, as we see with the concerted attacks from the likes of Breitbart. .That proves it is having an impact and they want desperately to discredit it.

Regarding negative stuff posted here, best thing, imo, is not to participate in those threads, they will sink fast if no one bothers with them. Posting actual news about the movement will help make it grow. Getting mired down in the negative stuff is doing exactly what they want, distracting from the real news.

Money is probably being spent (remember the leaked document confirming suspicions that there would be an effort to smear it) on propaganda so imo, it's best to ignore it. What do you think?

[unionworks]

6. Couldn't agree more

Perhaps what I really neeed to address is the anger I feel when others smear or attack Occupy. I find meditation helps. 1. Breathe in happy 2. Hold one count 3. Exhale anger.

[sabrina 1]

7. Lol, I used to feel that way also, but then I remember when the movement first started

and I was reading their literature, they were so organized, (despite all the media hype to the contrary). They anticipated fully that they would be attacked and smeared and discussed what to do about it. At that time though, I know they never expected to last this long or to be as successful as they have been.

But airc, they decided to just keep going forward and not allow it to stop them, or distract them.

Keith Olbermann did a great take-down of Andrew Breitbart a few nights ago. Breitbart had cobbled together a 'list' of supposed crimes committed by occupiers. KO destroyed the list, and Breitbart, who reacted as expected. But KO's excellent response to the 'list' and Breitbart's drunken display last week, put Breitbart on the defensive.

So, I think there are people like KO and some of the people at RT also have been great at debunking the smears, who can handle the provocateurs. It won't stop, that's for sure, and it is too bad it gets brought here from time to time, but I decided to just ignore it and focus on the good things, of which there are many.

[Live and Learn]

9. Great advice.

Hard to understand why people don't get it but I figure they will someday. Still ticked off that so many are sacrificing themselves for our collective good and not getting the appreciation they should even here.

[Live and Learn]

8. I feel the same way

It is just especially hard when it comes from people you would expect to understand and they don't.

[starroute]

11. I think many people are just getting their Occupy news from the mainstream media

Coverage of Occupy has diminished over the winter, and even someone who watches Olbermann and Maddow could have the impression that the movement has peaked and lost momentum, that it was done in by violence in the streets and garbage at the encampments, and that it's time for attention to be turned back to electoral politics.

You have to be following pretty closely to know how much work is being done on Occupy 2.0. Partly, the energy has been going into local events, appropriate to smaller towns and neighborhoods. Partly, it's being saved up for the big protests announced for this spring. And partly it's going into planning something completely different.

When one foreclosure gets stopped in one city, or when a cash mob descends on a small business, it might make the local papers but it never reaches the national media. When eight occupiers marching from Atlanta to Chicago camp overnight in a field in nowheresville Tennessee, you'd have no clue unless you saw their picture on Facebook.

So correct the more egregious errors if you like. But mostly just relax and let the process develop in its own time.

[JDPriestly]

14. We should also think of postive things that we can do to support

those in the 99% who are just barely making it.

In my area, there are some very small businesses -- family businesses -- struggling to compete with the big bully stores. I try to do what I can to help the small, locally owned businesses, whether it is telling my neighbors about them or thanking the business owners for struggling to meet the needs of our community in their fresh, local way.

I think the occupy groups in smaller communities need special encouragement in their efforts to educate Americans about what is going on. The poverty and foreclosures and joblessness are not just in the big cities. In fact, those things have been going on in small-town America even before they hit the cities. So I'm happy to see what the Occupy Movement is doing in small-town America.

[sabrina 1]

15. Yes, that is the beauty of the movement. The fluidity of it, as it develops. I agree that small

businesses need help, and that is something that OWS groups can promote which will then bring more people into the movement. Eg, their efforts to keep people in their homes has increased support for them. I saw an interview with a woman whose home was saved with the help of the Occupiers. She and her family were so appreciative of what they did and made of point of saying so in the media. That kind of positive coverage, real help for real people, should be promoted as much as possible. And that was one more family who now supports the movement.

[JDPriestly]

16. And small businesses increase the diversity of our marketplace.

That is good for our society as well as for the quality of products and services we get. In a society in which small businesses are supported and can flourish, there will be less joblessness.

Big business appears to be more efficient in the short run, but actually bloats up and becomes less efficient in the end. I try to do what I can to support small businesses in my community.

[starroute]

17. That's where cash mobs come in

People select a worthy local business or two and descend on them (with advance notice) as a crowd, with every participant committed to spend at least $20. It gives the business a quick shot of cash and -- provided the local media are clued in -- it also leads to publicity that can generate more customers.

I haven't been saving links, but just google on "cash mob" and you should find plenty. This is something I really hope will catch on over the spring and summer.

[JDPriestly]

13. Agreed! sabrina 1.

[TBF]

19. Let's point out when it occurs in this group as well

to wit: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1252421

Edited to add/clarify: I would suggest focusing on keeping the message strong in this group, and not allowing interlopers to come in and undermine. In Socialist Progressives our number one rule is "no red baiting" and I will ban folks from the group when I see it. When we post out in General we try to find interesting, educational arguments to make our points but it is much different than what I would post in the group because the audience is so different. I may point out egregious ills of capitalism when it's easy to do so, but I am not out to "convert" folks. They will realize for themselves how horrible capitalism is for most of the people in this world (especially the past few years it's been blatant), and then I'm available to talk to them in the group when they inevitably show up.