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staggerleem

(469 posts)
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 09:50 AM Mar 2015

Israeli Red Shift - Did Bibi pull a Bush?

Something unusual happened in the recent elections in Israel. As reported in the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/19/world/middleeast/israel-election-results-exit-polls-falter.html_r=0?) there was a major discrepancy between the exit polling and the actual election results. Exit polls are generally the most reliable, because when you ask somebody what they intend to do, and they answer you, the possibility always exists that, even if they answered honestly, they will wind up doing something else. However, when you ask somebody what they just DID, the ambiguity of circumstance disappears -they either tell the truth, or they don't, and the tendency in that situation is to be honest.

The Times article bemoans this unusual inaccuracy in the exit polling, and attempts to explain it away by saying that many Israeli Conservatives simply refused to answer the poll-takers, because they feel that the pollsters (like reality) have a "liberal bias". I will posit a different explanation, and I'll back it up with as much proof as the Times did for theirs (i. e., NONE!)

It's been a while since the phenomenon of inaccurate exit polling in a Presidential election has affected us here in the US. The last times I can remember this were in 2000 and 2004, when George W. Bush ran against Al Gore (2000) and John Kerry (2004). On both occasions, we heard news reports to the effect that exit polling was a less reliable barometer than in previous elections. Oddly, though, their accuracy returned, seemingly unblemished, in 2008 and 2012. So, what REALLY happened?

There were numerous stories going around in those years about what a simple matter it was to hack our Diebold voting machines and flip votes. The '04 election, you may recall, came down to Ohio, and somehow, MILLIONS of Ohio votes somehow vanished from that state (where, at that time, results were tabulated by people reporting to a Democratic Secretary of State), and were, instead, tabulated on machines in Tennessee (where SecState was Republican!) Stories about ELECTION FRAUD (which DOES exist, and is very different from the vanishingly-rare VOTER FRAUD that Conservatives like to complain about) were rampant at the time. People were saying that Bush had stolen a SECOND election (SCOTUS handed him the first, you'll recall, with a ruling deemed "not to be used for precedence" - how strange is THAT??!!), except on FOX, who told us all to "get over it!"

So - What happened in Israel last week, when folks went to bed believing that Bibi and Herzog were in a dead heat, only to wake up & find out that it was a a Netanyahu landslide? What kind of voting machines does Israel use? Are they as easily hackable as ours?

Can I sit here and state unequivocally that the Likkud party won this election by cheating? No, I cannot, but here's what I do know ... Bibi Netanyahu is a proud Neocon, and Neocons believe in winning - BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!

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Israeli Red Shift - Did Bibi pull a Bush? (Original Post) staggerleem Mar 2015 OP
While the vote versus polling results suggest a discrepancy they do not prove the vote was hacked. Ford_Prefect Mar 2015 #1
I pretty much said that in my original post, Ford. staggerleem Mar 2015 #2
I wondered if it could have been done when I saw the proportion of the "win" votes. Ford_Prefect Mar 2015 #3

Ford_Prefect

(8,209 posts)
1. While the vote versus polling results suggest a discrepancy they do not prove the vote was hacked.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 12:44 PM
Mar 2015

Last edited Wed Mar 25, 2015, 02:15 PM - Edit history (1)

The proof in Florida, Ohio and elsewhere was based on observations and on functional issues with the voting system itself.

How is the vote collected, counted and certified in Israel? How well did the percentages of predicted voting and polling results match up in the various locations and voting groups? That is one point of comparison.

We are expected to believe that a late voting surge by voters frightened of Palestinian statehood and Iranian Nuclear weapons made the numbers tilt in Bibi's direction. I'd expect to see that borne out in the numbers of votes from that constituency.

 

staggerleem

(469 posts)
2. I pretty much said that in my original post, Ford.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 04:56 PM
Mar 2015

I can prove NOTHING.

But isn't it worth talking about? I have never been to Israel, and have no clue regarding the mechanics of how they vote, or how their vote is tabulated, and haven't been able to find out much about any of that. I'd hoped if I brought the subject up here, somebody might have a few more facts than I do, and maybe we could all learn something.

BTW - don't forget your towel!

Ford_Prefect

(8,209 posts)
3. I wondered if it could have been done when I saw the proportion of the "win" votes.
Wed Mar 25, 2015, 08:18 PM
Mar 2015

Questions to be asked there are, grasshopper.

We should ask those who must live with the results I think.

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