EarlG, would it be possible to automate a DU mail to be sent out to anyone who gets 3 posts hidden

[highplainsdem]

This discussion thread was locked by EarlG (a host of the DU Community Help forum).

in 90 days, to ask them to review the hidden posts - those links and text should be sent in the automated letter - and then, if they're still confused about the jury decisions, to write to forum hosts (NOT directly to you) if they have questions about any of the rules a jury thought they broke (or about getting along with people on DU in general)?

That would at least be a partial replacement of a role moderators usually fill. And it would help fill in a huge gap between decisions by anonymous jury members and an admin who understandably does not have time to deal with all the DU mail sent to him even now.

It would still leave it up to the person with 3 hidden posts to decide if they want to have any personal, private communication with another DUer (most likely a senior DUer since forum hosts usually are) about any problems they're having here.

It would give you a chance to remind them they're over halfway to being FFR'd if they get 2 more posts hidden in 90 days. And it's important that reminder come from you, even if it's automated, because the titles Administrator and Moderator will get people's attention. (We don't have mods here, but forum hosts are an approximation.). Equally important: a letter like this would also be a good place for a reminder from you that you DON'T want people to end up suspending themselves from DU - that you hope they won't even though you don't have time to write to everyone personally.

And maybe the letter could suggest that if there isn't a forum host they want to write to, then most DUers who've been here for years and have posted a lot would probably be happy to help them.

This won't work with trolls, of course. But it could be very helpful with members who are well-meaning but just making mistakes.

[rzemanfl]

1. The solution is to stop posting anything but

"+1" and "K&R" until the hides start to age out.

[highplainsdem]

2. That's no more a solution than leaving DU temporarily or permanently. Especially if someone's making

mistakes, doesn't want to, but might be beginning to feel that DU is more a minefield than a community.

The sort of letter I'm suggesting could go a long way toward making DU feel like more of a community. Which is something moderators can often help with - but we don't have moderators here.

[rzemanfl]

3. The hides I got were not from communicating with members of this community.

They were trolls, and probably Russians to boot.

[highplainsdem]

4. You had trolls alerting on your posts and voting to hide them? Were those trolls removed from DU?

[rzemanfl]

5. Yes, the trolls were eventually removed, but I was

too aggressive in calling them out. I have no idea who alerted or who was on the juries.

[highplainsdem]

6. I'm sorry that happened to you, but glad the trolls were removed.

[EarlG]

8. Except that's not what happened

If the post in question is a 2017 post called "Unofficial celebratory Russian troll bagging thread since we can't post to removed threads," -- since that is the only removed post by rzemanfl that I can find which has anything to do with Russian trolls -- that post was removed because it was an OP celebrating another DU member getting a post removed, which is a clear personal attack.

The fact that the member in question was banned -- three years later -- had nothing to do with the fact that
rzemanfl's post was a rule violation.

And rzemanfl's post was alerted on by a regular DU member who is still an active member, not a Russian troll.

And this is why we don't let people talk about removed posts on DU, because when people who get posts removed tell the story of what happened, it's amazing how often the story makes them look good, while other people -- or DU itself -- are the ones to blame. And that leads to other people believing the untrue version, which makes them think there must be something wrong with the system. When in fact it worked exactly as intended.

Now I've cleared that up, I'm locking this thread, because I need to go work on the latest DU patch rather than spend the rest of my afternoon arguing about this.

[EarlG]

7. We already send a series of escalating notices

The first time you get a post removed, you get a friendly notification. If you get another post removed within 90 days of the first one, you get another friendly notification, this time alerting you to the fact that getting too many posts removed could result in your account being suspended. If you get a third post removed within 90 days, you get a less friendly warning, again reminding you that getting too many posts removed will result in account suspension. If you get a fourth post removed within 90 days of the first one, you get a notification literally titled "WARNING: Your account is on the verge of being suspended" which explicitly tells you that you'll be suspended if you have one more post removed.

I do not see the need to add any additional hand-holding by volunteers into this process, which would only serve to waste the volunteers' time, expose them to potential abuse, and then further waste my time by forcing me to deal with all the problems that this new system would inevitably introduce.

Forum Hosts are not an approximation of moderators. Their role has nothing to do with enforcing the Terms of Service or with violations of the rules. In 2011 we made the explicit decision to remove the role "moderator" and split the traditional moderator's duties into a number of different roles instead. Forum Hosts handle forum Statement Of Purpose violations and lock threads. The Malicious Intruder Removal Team handles new members under 100 posts and removes newbie trolls. Juries handle rule violations. Administrators oversee each of those roles, including handling Jury appeals, and have the final say on everything.

I'm happy with the way the system works and have no intention of changing it at this time.