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In reply to the discussion: On a Rainy Day [View all]

AloeVera

(4,398 posts)
19. Catch-22, denialism and a few other things...
Mon May 11, 2026, 11:29 PM
Monday

"...folks who thought voters should blame the Biden administration (and Kamala Harris, the eventual nominee negotiating for a ceasefire in '24) for what Netenyahu eventually did under Trump."

I don't understand this statement. The facts are pretty clear that Netanyahu did not have to wait for Trump to inflict the vast majority of damage to Gaza. By every metric of the death and destruction of war, the first 15 months were the most devastating and grotesque. Perhaps you didn't watch the daily atrocities and didn't see that shredded child hanging by a hook on the wall, and many other hellish scenes, as I did. In any case, facts and figures which I won't recite here prove my point.

And while Kamala said she was working tirelessly for a ceasefire, she also said that her commitment to Israel's security was 'iron-clad and "unshakeable". But voters wanted both a ceasefire and conditioned funding or even an arms embargo and they already figured out Netanyahu was not interested in a ceasefire unless he was pressured or threatened with consequences! I happen to believe that Democrats are smart people - they recognized a Catch-22 and a losing, disappointing strategy when they saw it.

I would not presume to think Democratic voters are so weak-minded that they would be influenced by "demagogues" one way or another. I think Democratic non-voters made up their own minds, based on what they saw with their own eyes - shredded kids and a moral disaster for their party. That would tend to be somewhat demoralizing and suppress voter turn-out.

"....that issue in the election was a deliberately diverting and divisive canard, considering the republican opposition and the abdication of responsibility we've all witnessed from them.:

Opposition to the war and asking your President and then your candidate for conditioned funding or an arms embargo to protect Palestinians from war crimes and slaughter was a distraction and divisive? And it was irrelevant anyway because... it was all the fault of republicans?

I don't know quite the term to describe this line of thinking but denialism or revisionism comes to mind.

In case you're interested, here is a very insightful and fact-filled scholarly article that might disabuse you of these notions. No, it does not present a pretty picture so if you read it, keep an open mind. But it is reality - it's what happened and the sum total of it all was just too demoralizing for a lot of people who never made it to the voting booth.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/waf2.70009

"...Democrats need to remind voters that their energy and efforts aren't mired in the fate of some nation or interest other than the United States and our people."

That's not what voters saw, quite the opposite. It's a bit ironic that you put it that way...

Aside from every other rotten consequence of the disastrous Gaza/Israel foreign policy, it's clear to me that the road to Iran (and don't forget Lebanon!) started in the ruins of Gaza and the unconditional support for Israel. There should be some lessons learned here for the Democratic Party, but that won't happen unless there is open and honest discussion and TAKING RESPONSIBILITY - no denialism or revisionism - whatever it takes to bring back those lost voters and restore faith in what the Democratic Party stands for.

Recommendations

2 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

On a Rainy Day [View all] H2O Man May 9 OP
Individually Saoirse9 May 10 #1
A number of things. H2O Man May 10 #6
When was Dick Cheney "ushered on stage" to endorse? What event was that? betsuni May 10 #2
Okay. H2O Man May 10 #7
you obviously don't see the virtue in enabling the election of a white supremacist, criminal madman bigtree Tuesday #24
My brains shut down when I try to understand it. betsuni Wednesday #42
This message was self-deleted by its author betsuni Wednesday #43
"It is essential that we have a conversation on this complicated issue" Martin Eden May 10 #3
Very good! H2O Man May 10 #8
One Word Martin Eden May 10 #4
it's a hard conversation to have. mopinko May 10 #5
It has been a long while that I have seen so many of Israel's talking points summarized so well and succinctly. AloeVera May 10 #9
It definitely is hard. H2O Man Monday #11
i absolutely wish that jews believed in hell, mopinko Monday #13
Thank you! H2O Man Monday #15
Good OP malaise May 10 #10
Thank you! H2O Man Monday #12
interesting bigtree Monday #14
Interesting. H2O Man Monday #16
I think you can find numerous statements and actions by Sen. Schumer, if you look, that condem every objectional aspect bigtree Monday #17
Very good. H2O Man Monday #18
this is false bigtree Tuesday #21
Gracious! H2O Man Tuesday #22
that has nothing at all to do with what you claimed is my belief bigtree Tuesday #23
Sure it does. H2O Man Tuesday #25
well, you go on and tell me what I believe bigtree Tuesday #27
Golly. H2O Man Tuesday #28
responding to your continued effort to tell me what I believe bigtree Tuesday #29
You are funny! H2O Man Tuesday #30
you might not find it as funny if I did the same dishonest and demeaning thing bigtree Tuesday #31
I think that H2O Man Tuesday #32
I think it's sad that you can't find something that actually affects Americans to prioritize in the next election bigtree Tuesday #33
Comic genius! H2O Man Tuesday #34
like I said bigtree Tuesday #35
Ha! H2O Man Tuesday #36
lol, sweating 'Robert' bigtree Wednesday #37
I have never H2O Man Wednesday #38
there you go again, claiming I said things I haven't said or implied bigtree Wednesday #39
You are confused. H2O Man Wednesday #40
the hubris in representing to me that you know ANYTHING substantive about what I believe bigtree Wednesday #44
Catch-22, denialism and a few other things... AloeVera Monday #19
Americans were divided on that conflict bigtree Tuesday #20
The attempts at restraint failed because there was little behind them to make them serious. AloeVera Wednesday #41
I think you're assuming levers of influence that didn't exist for Biden bigtree Wednesday #45
I am reminded H2O Man Tuesday #26
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