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Denzil_DC

(8,009 posts)
12. Point by point:
Thu Aug 31, 2017, 04:38 PM
Aug 2017

(1) You seem to have a very romantic image of who might be a leadership contender from Scottish Labour's "left". All of them are as tribal and unlikely to change tack on the SNP as the others, as that's going to be the last remaining sinew that holds Labour together up here. Take a look at the contenders so far. Not a pretty sight. The party's been hollowed out, and there's no strength in depth.

(2) The overwhelming dynamic that drove that Labour/Tory "pact" is anti-independence, and hence anti-SNP (independence and the SNP aren't synonymous, but they're the obvious and only credible target if you don't want to see it happen, or adopt that pose for cynical electoral gain). Only one leading SLabour figure has said the party should even debate whether to support independence in recent times, and he's ruled himself out of the running.

(3) Labour shouldn't, but it does, and has done as long as I've been involved in politics. It just became a greater focus once the SNP became able to pose a serious challenge electorally. I don't see why the SNP should adapt its political focus to make it more palatable to the third party in Scottish politics, which isn't even clear about quite a number of its own policies. The SNP's been doing fine as it is. It would, in any case, risk losing a substantial amount of its own support if it did as you suggest, apart from acting in as unprincipled a way as Labour, for no return.

You're kidding yourself if you think anything the SNP could do would change attitudes among Labour hardliners. Name me one initiative the SNP's undertaken, at Holyrood or Westminster, where Labour's had its back or shown its representatives any respect. A scant few individuals have done so, but the same could be said of the Tories (the less said about the Lib Dems, the better). The Welsh Assembly's First Minister was just up here for talks about Brexit with Sturgeon, and there did seem to be some mutual respect. But that's over a policy where Labour under Corbyn have been floundering. (What's the policy today? Don't blink or it'll change.) I also haven't seen Corbyn criticizing the Labour-controlled administration down there for not doing enough to mitigate austerity etc. As head honcho of the UK party, you'd think he might have some sway and want an example to point to of where Labour was governing well and leading the way in face of the problems that afflict the UK.

By the way, the Smith Commission wasn't years ago, it took place in late 2014. Here's how it panned out in terms of devolving tax-raising powers:



The watered-down recommendations in the Smith Report were further diluted then finally enacted in the UK Parliament in March 2016, after much wrangling. Who was Labour leader then?

Nothing in Corbyn's attitudes or statements makes me imagine he thinks Holyrood should get more power - if he even supports at all the continuation of an inconvenient parliament that just makes life difficult for Labour. He's consistently blamed our government for not doing things his own party blatantly refused to give it power to do. He really doesn't find us that interesting, despite being the home of Keir Hardie (himself a home-ruler) and all sorts of romantic guff about the Red Clyde and the nobility of hard and dangerous toil.

Why shouldn't I be angry at Corbyn? He's Labour leader and came up to my home country on a flying visit to yet again patronize us and spout a bunch of provable lies about what's going on up here while not being held to account for them. Why would I want to support that attitude being in government? If he cuts it out, I won't have cause to be angry. Simple.

Yet again, it's all about what Labour needs, Labour's internal struggles and problems etc. After a few decades, that gets very boring. I'm looking at what I and the people around me need. It's not a bunch of useless entrenched hasbeen hacks (13% of Labour's Holyrood members are ex-Scottish Labour leaders!) with an inexplicable lingering sense of entitlement ("they're our voters, our seats" ).

But what do I know? I just live here.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I always felt sorry for Dugdale T_i_B Aug 2017 #1
She DID stand up to Corbyn...in fact, she spent much of her tenure fighting to remove him Ken Burch Aug 2017 #2
Corbyn is a London politician... T_i_B Aug 2017 #3
Corbyn HAPPENS to be from London. He hasn't taken consciously anti-Scottish positions. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #4
Location matters. T_i_B Aug 2017 #5
OK...but since any politician from anywhere is going to have some local loyalties, Ken Burch Aug 2017 #6
Actually, it tends to be more of an asset for most politicians T_i_B Aug 2017 #7
Agreed. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #8
I would ask Denzil about polls and popularity in Scotland... T_i_B Aug 2017 #9
The "poll" Ken's referring to, Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #10
I agree with you on some points: Ken Burch Aug 2017 #11
Point by point: Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #12
I was wrong on the Smith Commission date. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #13
Corbyn was Labour leader when the Scotland Act 2016 was debated and voted through Parliament. Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #14
As always, I learn from your posts. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #15
You obviously shouldn't just take what I say on trust. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #16
Thanks for the info about the likely sucessors to Dugdale. T_i_B Sep 2017 #17
Well, yes to all that, T_i_B. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #18
There are contradictions, but it's not as simple as saying Corbyn is contradictory Ken Burch Sep 2017 #21
I can see a case for voting SNP in Holyrood elections. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #20
Dude, I'm not going to respond to your post above this one Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #22
I know Callaghan's government itself was a trainwreck Ken Burch Sep 2017 #24
Listen. Listen good, because I'm about done wasting my time on you. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #25
It was Heath that did the three-day week. And I'm not defending Callaghan. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #26
Mea culpa. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #27
My point about the no-confidence motion was not about claiming Callaghan was brilliant. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #29
A backgrounder from the Glasgow Herald's Tom Gordon Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #19
Another backgrounder from the Herald, this time from Paul Hutcheon Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #23
Well now ... Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #28
YouGov: "Why the Labour centrists stand a better chance in Scotland" Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #30
As you pointed out, most of those who would be "Corbynyista" ended up in the SNP. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #31
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that you don't actually read what I write, Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #32
Finally, the leadership election results, and the winner is ... Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #33
"Reality" TV shows? T_i_B Nov 2017 #34
What is it about politicians swanning off from their jobs to appear on reality shows? LeftishBrit Nov 2017 #35
On the brighter side, I reckon it finished off the serious period of Galloway's career! Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #36
Davidson on a Bake Off special wouldn't have taken much time muriel_volestrangler Nov 2017 #37
Yeah. If she's a crap baker, she could be out of there in no time! Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #38
Does make you wonder about the list system T_i_B Nov 2017 #40
It does. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #41
Ugh. This is NOT a promising start from Leonard. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #39
It's not getting any better Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #42
What on earth is happening with Scottish Labour at present? T_i_B Oct 2018 #43
AFAIK, it's actually a separate strain of infighting, and endemic to Scottish labour. Denzil_DC Oct 2018 #44
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