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Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
29. My point about the no-confidence motion was not about claiming Callaghan was brilliant.
Sun Sep 3, 2017, 06:25 PM
Sep 2017

Callaghan was a disaster and from what I've seen, Healey spent much of the Seventies actively working to sabotage his own party-using alarmist rhetoric about Labour's tax policies in the run up to the 1974 elections, and then doing the IMF deal when there was no need for it. Most of the problems in the late Seventies were down to the IMF deal and the assault on the welfare state begun by it.

The Seventies was a bad period...but what would have made that a better time? It's not as though Scotland would have benefited from Heath staying in power or from the Liberals moving past Labour as the main non-Tory party. And there's a "chicken or egg" question as to whether the unions would have been that militant had Labour not agreed to austerity policies that put workers under direct attack.

It would have been far better for all concerned if Foot, rather than Callaghan, had won the Labour leadership in '76 when Wilson stepped down. I'll grant you that Foot may not be a beloved figure, but he was at least respected as a man of principle and did nothing to deserve the treachery of those who formed the SDP just to prevent a Labour victory on an actually socialist manifesto. If the Gang of Four hadn't done what they did, Thatcherism would have ended after four years and the trade unions-the only means working people have ever had of defending themselves from exploitation-would not have been crushed.

I also think that, had Tony Benn held his seat in 1983 and then replaced Foot as leader rather than the deeply disliked and principle-free Neil Kinnock, Labour would have won or at least reduced the Tories to a minority in the 1987 election. Benn knew how to present himself on television, was never intimidated by Thatcher in the way that Kinnock was, and would have turned Labour's unilateralist position on the Bomb into a plus rather than a minus by actually making a case FOR getting rid of nukes and using the funds required to maintain them for social good, and would not have wasted endless party resources expelling socialists FROM the party instead of building a broad movement for socialism. As the 1990s prove, when Labour isn't socialist and when it is casual about starting wars, Labour ends up not standing for much of anything at all.

I used the no-confidence motion simply to illustrate that political grudges can go in more than one direction.

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I always felt sorry for Dugdale T_i_B Aug 2017 #1
She DID stand up to Corbyn...in fact, she spent much of her tenure fighting to remove him Ken Burch Aug 2017 #2
Corbyn is a London politician... T_i_B Aug 2017 #3
Corbyn HAPPENS to be from London. He hasn't taken consciously anti-Scottish positions. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #4
Location matters. T_i_B Aug 2017 #5
OK...but since any politician from anywhere is going to have some local loyalties, Ken Burch Aug 2017 #6
Actually, it tends to be more of an asset for most politicians T_i_B Aug 2017 #7
Agreed. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #8
I would ask Denzil about polls and popularity in Scotland... T_i_B Aug 2017 #9
The "poll" Ken's referring to, Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #10
I agree with you on some points: Ken Burch Aug 2017 #11
Point by point: Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #12
I was wrong on the Smith Commission date. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #13
Corbyn was Labour leader when the Scotland Act 2016 was debated and voted through Parliament. Denzil_DC Aug 2017 #14
As always, I learn from your posts. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #15
You obviously shouldn't just take what I say on trust. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #16
Thanks for the info about the likely sucessors to Dugdale. T_i_B Sep 2017 #17
Well, yes to all that, T_i_B. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #18
There are contradictions, but it's not as simple as saying Corbyn is contradictory Ken Burch Sep 2017 #21
I can see a case for voting SNP in Holyrood elections. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #20
Dude, I'm not going to respond to your post above this one Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #22
I know Callaghan's government itself was a trainwreck Ken Burch Sep 2017 #24
Listen. Listen good, because I'm about done wasting my time on you. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #25
It was Heath that did the three-day week. And I'm not defending Callaghan. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #26
Mea culpa. Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #27
My point about the no-confidence motion was not about claiming Callaghan was brilliant. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #29
A backgrounder from the Glasgow Herald's Tom Gordon Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #19
Another backgrounder from the Herald, this time from Paul Hutcheon Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #23
Well now ... Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #28
YouGov: "Why the Labour centrists stand a better chance in Scotland" Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #30
As you pointed out, most of those who would be "Corbynyista" ended up in the SNP. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #31
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that you don't actually read what I write, Denzil_DC Sep 2017 #32
Finally, the leadership election results, and the winner is ... Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #33
"Reality" TV shows? T_i_B Nov 2017 #34
What is it about politicians swanning off from their jobs to appear on reality shows? LeftishBrit Nov 2017 #35
On the brighter side, I reckon it finished off the serious period of Galloway's career! Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #36
Davidson on a Bake Off special wouldn't have taken much time muriel_volestrangler Nov 2017 #37
Yeah. If she's a crap baker, she could be out of there in no time! Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #38
Does make you wonder about the list system T_i_B Nov 2017 #40
It does. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #41
Ugh. This is NOT a promising start from Leonard. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #39
It's not getting any better Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #42
What on earth is happening with Scottish Labour at present? T_i_B Oct 2018 #43
AFAIK, it's actually a separate strain of infighting, and endemic to Scottish labour. Denzil_DC Oct 2018 #44
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