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Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
14. Oh...to clarify...by "clear blue water", I thought you meant policy differences.
Sun Nov 12, 2017, 04:03 PM
Nov 2017

Didn't realize you meant polling results.

Even though the election is over and there's no reason for this to still be happening, a lot of the Labour Right types are STILL expelling Corbyn supporters(often on what they KNOW are bogus accusations of anti-Semitism-I assume you'd concede that it isn't anti-Semitism simply to be a post-Zionist) and are doing that


As to Brexit, I think it should be avoided if possible-not sure it still CAN be avoided, but yes, I'd rather not see it happen-but asking Labour to take an strong anti-Brexit position now is asking them to let UKIP come back from the dead-a revival of UKIP can only help the Tories and can only make bigotry worse-is not the way to do that. What matters first is getting the Tories out of power, which can only be achieved by electing Labour(after the last election, there's no place where voting LibDem is the way to the way to beat the Tories)and THEN lobbying hard against it.

It goes without saying that if Labour goes all-out anti-Brexit now, that guarantees another Tory government and THAT guarantees Brexit. It's not possible for any party to win the next election by making "stop Brexit" the dominant issue, though.

Also(and I know you are angry about what Labour did in Scotland and actually agree with you that the decision to form a common front with the Scottish Tories), Labour did much better than "avoiding a bloodbath". They increased their vote share by 10 percentage points, gained thirty seats, and deprived the Tories of a majority-and did so while their leader was subjected to a level of sabotage no other party leader in UK politics has ever experienced-At the beginning of the campaign 12 Labour MPs gave up their seats in what was clearly a coordinated effort to humiliate the man into resigning-Labour held 11 of those 12 seats-and despite that, Jeremy Corbyn ran an amazing campaign. Now, Labour is in the lead-a small lead, but a lead-for the first time since he was elected-which strongly suggests that, had the right wing of his party simply accepted him in the job in the first place rather than spending years savaging him and treating the overwhelming majority of Labour members and supporters with sneering, anti-democratic contempt, that the Tories would be out of office by now and the chance of avoiding Brexit would be much greater.


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Until the government collapses T_i_B Nov 2017 #1
As much as I want the Tories out, I also want the DUP to face electoral punishment over this Ken Burch Nov 2017 #2
I don't think the DUP would be punished by voters for this LeftishBrit Nov 2017 #3
Well, times change, but this was from 2010: Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #4
A snap election can't come soon enough. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #5
I wouldn't credit the DUP with that much T_i_B Nov 2017 #6
I'd like to see quite a bit more clear water between the Tories and Labour Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #7
I'm for even more clear water than there is, although there's a lot more than previously. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #8
The latest poll I've seen showed Labour 3 points ahead. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #11
In theory, Labour should be much further ahead in the polls T_i_B Nov 2017 #12
I think at times recently Labour have been providing a more effective opposition. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #13
OK, somehow I hadn't see this earlier. I'll respond now. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #23
I've addressed pretty much all this at quite some length below. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #28
I thought I owed it to you to respond to this post when I saw it. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #29
You would agree that any continued anti-Corbyn efforts, including expulsions of his supporters, Ken Burch Nov 2017 #20
No. T_i_B Nov 2017 #37
To clarify, I wasn't condemning every single expulsion. Misogynists should be expelled. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #40
Wrong T_i_B Nov 2017 #41
OK...you can't seriously argue that there are people who are antiracist AND antisemitic. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #42
You really don't have experience of people in real life do you? T_i_B Nov 2017 #43
I have plenty of experence in real life. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #44
Given that you keep posting the same old theoretical bollocks T_i_B Nov 2017 #45
This message was self-deleted by its author Ken Burch Nov 2017 #49
I haven't mentioned the EU once on this thread T_i_B Nov 2017 #50
I have read the other posts...I'm sorry I misdirected that response to you. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #51
Christ, have you never ever misread something? Ken Burch Nov 2017 #53
I've met some. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #46
Oh...to clarify...by "clear blue water", I thought you meant policy differences. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #14
Do you not actually read anything anybody posts? T_i_B Nov 2017 #15
I read what he posted. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #21
In that particular post, I was plainly referring to clear water in terms of polling. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #16
You seem to think I'm a closet Leaver Ken Burch Nov 2017 #17
Bleedin' Ada. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #18
I'm only speaking for myself, and am not trying to convince you personally, Denzil. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #19
Now you REALLY are trying my patience, as if you hadn't already. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #22
OK, a reset is a good idea. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #24
It would also help if you'd stop making major edits to your posts after you've written them. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #25
Fair enough. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #26
Well, it mattered a bit more this time because you added questions to the end. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #27
When I started this thread, I never meant to get into Brexit. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #30
I didn't say that I thought a reset was a great idea. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #31
I don't disagree with a single thing you've said there. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #32
Well, to return to my entry to this discussion, Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #33
OK. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #34
The problem is this: Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #38
Denzil, I'm not trying to persuade YOU to vote Labour. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #39
Why do you think Labour's support would plummet if it supported Remain? LeftishBrit Nov 2017 #35
I DON'T condemn Labour's support for Remain in the referendum. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #36
"I do think it's time that people stop blaming Corbyn for the Leave victory" Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #47
Look, this all started because I honestly misunderstood what Denzil meant by "clear blue water". Ken Burch Nov 2017 #48
Jeebus. This "small group of you that post in the UK group" Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #54
Wasn't meaning to lecture...I respect your views on the EU and truly wasn't challenging them. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #55
OK...I misread it. In terms of UK politics, I'm used to seeing the term "clear blue water" Ken Burch Nov 2017 #52
She'll call an election The King of Prussia Nov 2017 #9
I thought she would have done it around october syringis Nov 2017 #10
Ok. I live in England and from NI so I have opinions on both these things....... Soph0571 Nov 2017 #56
Thank you for that. there's a fair amount of things in there I didn't know. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #57
Unfortunately the community is divided and always will be Soph0571 Nov 2017 #58
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