Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
United Kingdom
In reply to the discussion: Any theories as to how long May can delay a new election? [View all]Denzil_DC
(8,011 posts)31. I didn't say that I thought a reset was a great idea.
I said, and I'll quote the whole passage for context:
If Labour's future election platform is simply to enact Brexit, but do it better than the Tories, well (a) that's not a particularly high bar to set (!), and (b) I don't know how appealing that's going to be where they really need to keep and win votes.
Given the ever-shortening timescale and how little meaningful preparation for Brexit has apparently been done to date, the only way I could see it working would be if they said they were going to reset the whole Brexit process and start again with proper preparation (or, as things pan out and the impossibility of the contradictory ambitions they've declared so far becomes even clearer, eventually abandon the whole thing as unworkable). Whether the electorate or the EU would wear that is another matter, of course.
Given the ever-shortening timescale and how little meaningful preparation for Brexit has apparently been done to date, the only way I could see it working would be if they said they were going to reset the whole Brexit process and start again with proper preparation (or, as things pan out and the impossibility of the contradictory ambitions they've declared so far becomes even clearer, eventually abandon the whole thing as unworkable). Whether the electorate or the EU would wear that is another matter, of course.
That last sentence is the crunch. If you're worried about UKIP (a worry I think is misplaced as it's disintegrated beyond revival by now amid vast recriminations) or a resurgence in militant Leavers (they haven't gone away, but how much the bluster would translate into concrete action or a concerted campaign again is an interesting point), I doubt very much they'll be happy with it.
They're not bothered about having a workable or sane Brexit, they just want it to happen, and to hell with the consequences (some in that camp even seem to think the UK's gotten too soft and we need and deserve a major, prolonged shock).
If you think Labour should be pandering to that sentiment, then it's going to be in even worse shape in the future, internally and electorally, than I believe it is now.
The current problem is that nobody knows what Labour's position on Brexit is from day to day. Message discipline from the shadow cabinet has been appalling.
There is no coherence to the idea that the UK can have access to the single market without accepting the four freedoms. It's just not going to happen.
But so much damage has been done by now - to the UK's standing in the world, EU workers deciding to move away because of uncertainty and being made to feel generally unwelcome, major firms moving their operations, financial services that make up so much (too much, but that's an old fight) of our economy relocating, an almost endless list - that options are closing down by the day. There's no sense of urgency, and waiting for the Tories to fall on their faces just isn't good enough.
Things may come to a head when/if the secret impact reports are released in the next week or two (if it happens), but I don't trust our media to maintain a focus long enough for it to make much difference.
Labour could be much braver than it has been.
It's long astonished me that Labour hasn't made hay out of what is likely the main motivator for backing Brexit among the millionaires and billionaires: the EU's Anti Tax Avoidance Directive.
It's part of a long-term strategy by the EU to clamp down on tax havens and money laundering.
The directive comes into force on 1 January 2019. Hence, no doubt, some of the screeching from wealthy Brexit backers at the idea of an extended transitional period when the UK would still be subject to EU regulations.
However, even after Brexit, the UK could still face challenges on this score from potential EU trading partners, e.g.: Netherlands 'will block UK-EU deal without tax avoidance measures'. Which could explain why the idea of "no deal" is so popular in some quarters.
These are the sorts of issues - complex as international monetary affairs are - that Labour could be capitalizing on on class and anti-fat cat lines if it had a clear agenda to counter Brexit.
The fact that it doesn't is one thing among many that raises suspicions - rightly or wrongly - about its leaders' true motivations.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
58 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
As much as I want the Tories out, I also want the DUP to face electoral punishment over this
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#2
I'm for even more clear water than there is, although there's a lot more than previously.
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#8
I think at times recently Labour have been providing a more effective opposition.
Denzil_DC
Nov 2017
#13
You would agree that any continued anti-Corbyn efforts, including expulsions of his supporters,
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#20
To clarify, I wasn't condemning every single expulsion. Misogynists should be expelled.
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#40
OK...you can't seriously argue that there are people who are antiracist AND antisemitic.
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#42
Oh...to clarify...by "clear blue water", I thought you meant policy differences.
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#14
In that particular post, I was plainly referring to clear water in terms of polling.
Denzil_DC
Nov 2017
#16
I'm only speaking for myself, and am not trying to convince you personally, Denzil.
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#19
It would also help if you'd stop making major edits to your posts after you've written them.
Denzil_DC
Nov 2017
#25
Well, it mattered a bit more this time because you added questions to the end.
Denzil_DC
Nov 2017
#27
Look, this all started because I honestly misunderstood what Denzil meant by "clear blue water".
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#48
Wasn't meaning to lecture...I respect your views on the EU and truly wasn't challenging them.
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#55
OK...I misread it. In terms of UK politics, I'm used to seeing the term "clear blue water"
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#52
Ok. I live in England and from NI so I have opinions on both these things.......
Soph0571
Nov 2017
#56