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United Kingdom
In reply to the discussion: Any theories as to how long May can delay a new election? [View all]Denzil_DC
(8,011 posts)38. The problem is this:
While even a lowly poster on DU can try to come up with a constructive (though far from ideal) way out of the urgent conundrum that faces Labour over Brexit, Corbyn was still banging this old discredited Bennite drum a month ago:
Corbyn reignites Labour debate over EU rules on state aid and socialist manifesto
Jeremy Corbyn reignited a decades-old debate inside the Labour party this week when he claimed a socialist manifesto might be blocked by the European Unions rules on state aid if the UK tried to stay in the single market. ... Corbyn told the Andrew Marr Show the single market has within it restrictions in state aid and state spending. That has pressures on it through the European Union to privatise rail for example and other services.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/29/corbyn-reignites-labour-debate-over-eu-rules-on-state-aid-and-socialist-manifesto
Jeremy Corbyn reignited a decades-old debate inside the Labour party this week when he claimed a socialist manifesto might be blocked by the European Unions rules on state aid if the UK tried to stay in the single market. ... Corbyn told the Andrew Marr Show the single market has within it restrictions in state aid and state spending. That has pressures on it through the European Union to privatise rail for example and other services.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/29/corbyn-reignites-labour-debate-over-eu-rules-on-state-aid-and-socialist-manifesto
So rather than paving the way for a "reset" as you seem to imagine, he's bolstering the case against the EU in terms that will come back to bite him in the arse if he tries to backtrack.
From the same article:
Anand Menon, professor of European politics at Kings College London, said the argument that EU state aid rules would constrain Labours manifesto pledges on nationalisation is nonsense.
Two lawyers expert in EU state aid law, Andy Tarrant and Andrea Biondi, say they have tested 26 economic proposals in the 2017 manifesto to see if they fall foul of any EU law. They conclude most do not even potentially fall within the scope of the state aid rules.
...
Lord John Monks, the veteran trade union leader, said: There are no strict rules binding Corbyn, but there is a philosophy [in Brussels] that nationalisation is a bad thing. That said, we never noticed anyone being stopped from doing anything. He pointed to a German scheme to protect jobs during the financial crisis and France, which has done what its always done.
Two lawyers expert in EU state aid law, Andy Tarrant and Andrea Biondi, say they have tested 26 economic proposals in the 2017 manifesto to see if they fall foul of any EU law. They conclude most do not even potentially fall within the scope of the state aid rules.
...
Lord John Monks, the veteran trade union leader, said: There are no strict rules binding Corbyn, but there is a philosophy [in Brussels] that nationalisation is a bad thing. That said, we never noticed anyone being stopped from doing anything. He pointed to a German scheme to protect jobs during the financial crisis and France, which has done what its always done.
More detail at the link about this debate. (Also take a look at the Guardian's links to other stories at the bottom of that article for a snapshot of Labour's disarray on all this during the course of this summer.)
I'm left in the same dilemma I am about Corbyn's attitude to Scottish politics: is he just ignorant of the inconvenient nuances of the argument, or does he know the truth and is lying?
We've been through your other suggestion above before as well.
There's more prospect of a squadron of porkers swooping down on No. 10 and crapping in formation on Theresa May's head than Labour making a pre-election deal with the SNP. Add it to the long list of things that just aren't going to happen.
We've also discussed who might fare better than May as Tory leader before, and there just hasn't been much polling about it, certainly among the electorate outside the Tory Party, so all bets are off for me. Though I reckon Ruth Davidson taking over the Tory leadership is another to add to that list of things that aren't going to happen. I only mention it when I do it because it makes me boggle at the desperation and paucity of talent within the Tories! It might be fun to watch her try, though ... Having said that, these are strange times, and weirder things have happened.
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As much as I want the Tories out, I also want the DUP to face electoral punishment over this
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#2
I'm for even more clear water than there is, although there's a lot more than previously.
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#8
I think at times recently Labour have been providing a more effective opposition.
Denzil_DC
Nov 2017
#13
You would agree that any continued anti-Corbyn efforts, including expulsions of his supporters,
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#20
To clarify, I wasn't condemning every single expulsion. Misogynists should be expelled.
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#40
OK...you can't seriously argue that there are people who are antiracist AND antisemitic.
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#42
Oh...to clarify...by "clear blue water", I thought you meant policy differences.
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#14
In that particular post, I was plainly referring to clear water in terms of polling.
Denzil_DC
Nov 2017
#16
I'm only speaking for myself, and am not trying to convince you personally, Denzil.
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#19
It would also help if you'd stop making major edits to your posts after you've written them.
Denzil_DC
Nov 2017
#25
Well, it mattered a bit more this time because you added questions to the end.
Denzil_DC
Nov 2017
#27
Look, this all started because I honestly misunderstood what Denzil meant by "clear blue water".
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#48
Wasn't meaning to lecture...I respect your views on the EU and truly wasn't challenging them.
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#55
OK...I misread it. In terms of UK politics, I'm used to seeing the term "clear blue water"
Ken Burch
Nov 2017
#52
Ok. I live in England and from NI so I have opinions on both these things.......
Soph0571
Nov 2017
#56