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Feminists
In reply to the discussion: group host / statement of purpose [View all]justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)52. As a lesbian and someone who considers herself a feminist, I have a comment on all this back & forth
Ganging up on lesbian feminists because of our allegiance to our community
My allegiance too is to the queer community and here's why...First, I still smart a little over the 2nd-wave feminists initially pushing lesbians out of their cause because we were too controversial or claiming our rights weren't their rights--I hold a bit of grudge, what can I say? I've encountered modern-day feminists who feel the same way; that somehow my lesbianism makes me less of a woman and therefore, I can't be a feminist.
Back to the topic of my allegiance to the queer community; I can still be fired from my job just for being gay. I can be denied housing, just for being gay. Some places of business can deny me service, just because I'm gay. I still can't get legally married (except in a handful of states) and be recognized nationally because I'm gay. Most states won't allow me to adopt children just because I'm gay. I'm judged solely by some on the fact I'm gay. I'm referred to more often as a dyke than a bitch. Until the gay part of me gets the same rights as the woman part of me, then my allegiance to the gay community stands. I at least want to be equally discriminated against like any other woman, right now I'm not equal on that scale.
On the topic of feminism and being a lesbian:
Being a lesbian informs my worldview. I see things differently as a lesbian feminist then, I imagine, a straight feminist does. That doesn't mean I don't want ALL women to excel in this world or that I don't want ALL women to be equal but it does mean that I don't see the world through the eyes of a heterosexual woman and there are things that effect me in the world that don't effect heterosexual women. For example, as a lesbian woman, not only could I get underpaid for being a woman but at some places I may not even get a job or get fired for being a lesbian (as I stated above). Because of that, I'm going to view the world differently and form different opinions on things and it's going to make my feminism different.
As I said, I'm not trying to marginalize or put women in different classes BUT, my worldview is definitely different, as I'd imagine a woman from a small town would have a different worldview than a woman in an urban area (where she may have better opportunities) or a woman of color has a different world view than a white woman. It's not a competition but to say that it doesn't make our view of feminism unique does everyone a disservice.
I agree with La Lioness Priyanka that it may be better to have a diverse group of hosts only because diversity in thought (as is there diversity in feminism) is a good thing and it brings different perspectives to discussion. No matter how hard I try, I am not going to know what it's like to be a straight woman living in this world, nor no matter how hard a straight woman can try, she's not going to know what it's like to go through the world as a lesbian. And all our unique experiences inform our feminism.
You can't put the definition of feminism in a box and then expect all of to be able to conform to that definition, it's unrealistic. And getting mad that, as a lesbian, I don't necessarily agree with your view or definition of feminism doesn't make me any less a feminist, it just makes me a different feminist. Is being a different feminist a bad thing if we want the same things? And how does one decide if I sincerely want the same things as the next person other than my word on it? And are my feminism 'creds' any better or worse because my allegiance, first and foremost, is getting the equal rights we all deserve? Remember, lesbians don't have the same rights as straight women...
My allegiance too is to the queer community and here's why...First, I still smart a little over the 2nd-wave feminists initially pushing lesbians out of their cause because we were too controversial or claiming our rights weren't their rights--I hold a bit of grudge, what can I say? I've encountered modern-day feminists who feel the same way; that somehow my lesbianism makes me less of a woman and therefore, I can't be a feminist.
Back to the topic of my allegiance to the queer community; I can still be fired from my job just for being gay. I can be denied housing, just for being gay. Some places of business can deny me service, just because I'm gay. I still can't get legally married (except in a handful of states) and be recognized nationally because I'm gay. Most states won't allow me to adopt children just because I'm gay. I'm judged solely by some on the fact I'm gay. I'm referred to more often as a dyke than a bitch. Until the gay part of me gets the same rights as the woman part of me, then my allegiance to the gay community stands. I at least want to be equally discriminated against like any other woman, right now I'm not equal on that scale.
On the topic of feminism and being a lesbian:
Being a lesbian informs my worldview. I see things differently as a lesbian feminist then, I imagine, a straight feminist does. That doesn't mean I don't want ALL women to excel in this world or that I don't want ALL women to be equal but it does mean that I don't see the world through the eyes of a heterosexual woman and there are things that effect me in the world that don't effect heterosexual women. For example, as a lesbian woman, not only could I get underpaid for being a woman but at some places I may not even get a job or get fired for being a lesbian (as I stated above). Because of that, I'm going to view the world differently and form different opinions on things and it's going to make my feminism different.
As I said, I'm not trying to marginalize or put women in different classes BUT, my worldview is definitely different, as I'd imagine a woman from a small town would have a different worldview than a woman in an urban area (where she may have better opportunities) or a woman of color has a different world view than a white woman. It's not a competition but to say that it doesn't make our view of feminism unique does everyone a disservice.
I agree with La Lioness Priyanka that it may be better to have a diverse group of hosts only because diversity in thought (as is there diversity in feminism) is a good thing and it brings different perspectives to discussion. No matter how hard I try, I am not going to know what it's like to be a straight woman living in this world, nor no matter how hard a straight woman can try, she's not going to know what it's like to go through the world as a lesbian. And all our unique experiences inform our feminism.
You can't put the definition of feminism in a box and then expect all of to be able to conform to that definition, it's unrealistic. And getting mad that, as a lesbian, I don't necessarily agree with your view or definition of feminism doesn't make me any less a feminist, it just makes me a different feminist. Is being a different feminist a bad thing if we want the same things? And how does one decide if I sincerely want the same things as the next person other than my word on it? And are my feminism 'creds' any better or worse because my allegiance, first and foremost, is getting the equal rights we all deserve? Remember, lesbians don't have the same rights as straight women...
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I object to limiting discussion to just today. There are many DUers who don't visit forums daily,
Gormy Cuss
Jan 2012
#7
Then may we please start over with just a discussion of the SoP and try to get consensus on that?
Gormy Cuss
Jan 2012
#10
I've been around this group for a very long time and I've seen many serious disputes
Gormy Cuss
Jan 2012
#22
It either needs to explicitly limit the statement to discussing those things outside of a feminist
Gormy Cuss
Jan 2012
#27
are you lgbtq? if so you get to decide who is and who is not a homophobe
La Lioness Priyanka
Jan 2012
#37
actually i do think its gender not sex. transwomen for instance, imo belong to the feminist movement
La Lioness Priyanka
Jan 2012
#41
you came into this thread of over 300 posts and made ONE. one post. on mine. it was a jab and you
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#46
i was having a blast at the dinner table tonight talking about all the many groups
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#110
As a lesbian and someone who considers herself a feminist, I have a comment on all this back & forth
justiceischeap
Jan 2012
#52
You can't put the definition of feminism in a box ... but it seems like some can with people
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#54
I think it is a matter of acknowledging whatever privilege one might bear in a conversation or
Starry Messenger
Jan 2012
#62
find one post, ONE post i have not worked at, struggled with to hear the other side. ONE.
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#69
but we are not demanding the same. it CAN NOT be just one sided. we cannot say we are putting in
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#72
that is the point. the whole point i have been arguing from post ONE. sides. we have the GD sides
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#82
and i KNOW why you felt people were picking sides. and i know you are trying your best to be
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#105
of course that is a factor. nor have i ever denied any of that nor been unwilling to discuss.
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#68
I am also speaking globally as a reply in the subthread to justiceischeap's post.
Starry Messenger
Jan 2012
#75
so... because i am a middle aged women i should readily accept i am a prude, anti sex, asexual,
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#76
so, not only do i have to listen to all these demeaning comments over and over and over from the men
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#78
i ahve asked a couple times how it needs to be worded. i dont care. i havent heard anyone put a
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#91
thank you for talking to me like a person, instead of a caricature. i think that is what i was
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#86
gormy? can you find any posts where this other side (since i have been put on a side i dont want)
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#70
seabeyond, I've argued repeatedly over the first bullet point because I believe it was and is
Gormy Cuss
Jan 2012
#77
i ahev to agree with iverglas. you guys are saying that lioness has issues. i dont get what they
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#90
how do you want it worded so you are comfortable with you. i want your whole body in, not just a
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#96
"I am simply one of many who has had too much of being attacked, and not engaged."
justiceischeap
Jan 2012
#99
do we need to start fresh with a new thread and put this one behind. someone type the SOP,
seabeyond
Jan 2012
#87
Where is this "let's all get along spirit"? How ironic you've forgotten what thread this is.
CreekDog
Feb 2012
#117
Are you serious? I use the phrase 'to call a spade a spade' all the time...
Violet_Crumble
Feb 2012
#118
there is NO racial connotation in the term. YOU are creating one. but that is not the facts. nt
seabeyond
Feb 2012
#134
tar baby is and has always been, hands down, a racist term derived as a derogatory
seabeyond
Feb 2012
#157
yes. it is. that is why i didnt use it. and then i did research on spade for spade because of
seabeyond
Feb 2012
#144
yet FACT would argue what some people think. but, i recognize we have had this discussion on our
seabeyond
Feb 2012
#152
and now in other news ... well they ain't gonna have iverglas to kick around for a while!
iverglas
Feb 2012
#178
Depending on where you live, yes, "to call a spade a spade" would have racial overtones
justiceischeap
Feb 2012
#127
we understand. if you will google the saying, you would know that spade for spade was established
seabeyond
Feb 2012
#132
Well, it's a common turn of phrase here in Australia and has been for ages...
Violet_Crumble
Feb 2012
#171
calling her a bigot for saying spade a spade. the hostility of your post. false claims
seabeyond
Feb 2012
#125
another point. not about objectionable pageant because every person that had issue stated FIRST
seabeyond
Feb 2012
#151
Well I am one person (but I guess you're saying my opinion doesn't count as your ONE DUer)
CreekDog
Feb 2012
#161
No, but turning up just to have a go at a member of this group sure is...
Violet_Crumble
Feb 2012
#172
ummm..... you really did not read iverglas's posts before going into your rant and criticism?
seabeyond
Feb 2012
#130
you didnt address the accusation of bigotry with pearl clutching. you didnt address the people in
seabeyond
Feb 2012
#163
do you have any intention of participating for the group according to the group's stated purpose
seabeyond
Feb 2012
#149
of course I am following the rules and as host, if this discussion is against them
CreekDog
Feb 2012
#159
Point me to the rule that says it's okay to appear out of the blue and abuse a member of this group.
Violet_Crumble
Feb 2012
#173