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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Are we tilting at windmills re: national gun laws? [View all]benEzra
(12,148 posts)43. Here is where those proposals go off the rails.
From the link:
As senator, she co-sponsored and voted for legislation that would close the gun show loophole, voted against the dangerous immunity protections for gun dealers and manufacturers, and co-sponsored legislation to extend and reinstate the assault weapons ban.
"the assault weapons ban" - This is *the* single biggest blooper that the party has has made on guns in the last 25 years, and they have made many. Here's why: "assault weapon" is scare-speak for the most popular civilian rifles in U.S. homes, as well as the most popular target rifles in both sanctioned competition and informal target shooting. They are rarely misused (all rifles combined account for less than 300 murders annually out of 13,500), but are immensely popular. A ballpark guess is that twice as many Americans own "assault weapons" as hunt. They are not automatic weapons; they are Title 1 civilian non-automatics, mostly small-caliber.
The other issue is that bans on "high-capacity magazines"----usually meaning anything over 10 rounds, but sometimes as few as 7 or 5---are often sneaked into "assault weapon" legislation as well. To see why this is considered extremist, consider that the very first Winchesters ever made in the 1860s held 15 rounds, the most popular civilian rifles in U.S. homes hold 20 to 30, and most full-sized 9mm pistols hold 15 to 20. You are talking 60 *million* owners of probably half a billion magazines, nationwide. And you are telling those 60 million people that you consider them morally equivalent to violent felons (the NY SAFE Act makes possession of a loaded 13-round magazine a Class D violent felony, comparable to second-degree rape or luring a child, and even with those penalties Cuomo and Bloomberg only got 5-10% compliance). If you want to motivate millions of people to vote against you, tell them you'll throw them in prison with murderers and rapists unless they let you take away their civil liberties. You may not see it that way, but that's how it comes across.
"The gun show loophole" - there is no loophole; the Gun Control Act of 1968 applies just as strongly to gun shows as it does to storefronts. The real issue here is whether or not to institute background checks on private sales, or whether to criminalize private transfers altogether. There are ways to do the former without harassing lawful ownership, but most recent proposals at the state level have been aimed at the second, and that generates pushback. This isn't the biggest issue, though.
"voted against the dangerous immunity protections for gun dealers and manufacturers" - Sanders thought Clinton's position on this was a terrible idea, and explained why. But this isn't the biggest issue, either.
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We are now. Unless every single brown person in America goes out and buys some guns next week.
TygrBright
Nov 2016
#1
JHFC does EVERYthing have to be about race?, but since you brought it up, yes
jack_krass
Dec 2016
#74
depends on whether one thinks we need more true believers or more evangelists.
geek tragedy
Nov 2016
#10
Interesting that you bring up evangelism, given that "gun control" appears to be a religion for many
pablo_marmol
Dec 2016
#113
Here's a fact from the FBI: 13,500 murders annually, all rifles *combined* account for 270.
benEzra
Nov 2016
#46
Legal gun owners have been threatened here at DU, linked to at this OP:
friendly_iconoclast
Dec 2016
#68
That's in today's world. I come from a long line of Democrats who worked in the ...
spin
Dec 2016
#82
To use nuance, you have to *understand* the issue, which many in the DC/NY bubble apparently do not.
benEzra
Nov 2016
#63
"But as long as it's a wedge issue we're really never going to make headway on that."
NCTraveler
Nov 2016
#20
The PLCAA doesn't block suits for criminal straw purchases, smuggling, or defective guns.
benEzra
Nov 2016
#30
"(G)un shops were selling thousands of guns at a time to individuals" Cite, please
friendly_iconoclast
Dec 2016
#87
No cite or links after a week? It's obvious that claim is bullshit...
friendly_iconoclast
Dec 2016
#95
I think it did play a part in this defeat, and I tried to talk earlier to DU about that.
Yo_Mama
Nov 2016
#27
Yes. The truth is, Americans simply dont want government telling them what to do.
Warren DeMontague
Nov 2016
#28
Americans don't like being told what to do, but they do like the government telling others what to
geek tragedy
Nov 2016
#36
Certainly, and I wouldn't argue that we need to do away with things like building safety or the EPA.
Warren DeMontague
Nov 2016
#50
Democrats cease to become players in national politics, that's what happens
friendly_iconoclast
Dec 2016
#88
Well, more than 2.5 million more people voted for Hill than the Don, but apparently....
Hekate
Nov 2016
#67
"You"? You are holding me responsible for the mass insanity of this nation? Do you personally want
Hekate
Dec 2016
#78
This is *exactly* the type of misunderstanding that is so harmful to Dems on this issue.
benEzra
Dec 2016
#83
I don't get it then - what does an "assault weapons ban" do if it is not taking away someone's guns?
jmg257
Dec 2016
#85
Yep, there is. There is also a temporary forum for discussing things that hurt Dems last month...
benEzra
Dec 2016
#84
Democrats for the last few decades have been strong on gun control and week on a social safety net
killbotfactory
Dec 2016
#92
This is **precisely** what liberal criminologists James Wright, Peter Rossi
pablo_marmol
Dec 2016
#93
The only constant is change, so I disagree that we should view this as an unsolvable issue or...
CBHagman
Dec 2016
#97
Actually, all surveys but the non-anonymous GSS have shown steady ownership or recent increase.
benEzra
Dec 2016
#100
Hillary's position on gun control was politically naive outside of CA, NY and IL
HoneyBadger
Dec 2016
#116
Kicking for the benefit of members who believe that gun restriction is a political winner.
pablo_marmol
Dec 2016
#119
Gun restrictionists have become the secular "Bible thumpers" of the Democratic Party:
friendly_iconoclast
Dec 2016
#120
Hurts the party's efforts to win elections, it's a wedge issue that the pukes distort & capitalize
FreeStateDemocrat
Dec 2016
#123