2016 Postmortem

bigbrother05

(5,995 posts)

62. He was the change candidate and she wasn't

Tue Dec 6, 2016, 12:58 PM

Dec 2016

She ran as the continuation of Obama's admin. He was the change from Bush. That alone could account for enough votes to cause the loss. She nearly won, so it's likely all the factors trotted out post election had a hand. Some didn't like her as well. Some had a problem with her baggage. Some wanted Bernie. Some wouldn't vote for a woman. Some felt her too tied to Wall Street. Some still resent Bill. Etc.... Add all those somes together and you come up short by 80K in WI/MI/PA.

If the roles were reversed and she had run in '08 and Obama ran in '16, would it have turned out differently? My guess is it likely would have. She should have beaten McCain following Bush. Pretty certain Obama could have beaten Trump as the not Clinton Dem, but the world would not have been the same after 8 years of HRC that it is now so we'll never really know.

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What did OBAMA do differently in '08 from Hillary in 2016? [View all] yurbud Dec 2016 OP

For starters, he's just a much better public speaker n/t Stargleamer Dec 2016 #1

He was a brilliant public speaker yeoman6987 Dec 2016 #26

The "race speech" in response to the rev wright controversy bhikkhu Dec 2016 #34

Yes Chitown Kev Dec 2016 #49

yes DonCoquixote Dec 2016 #133

I've been thinking about that moment a lot recently. rogue emissary Dec 2016 #73

I wish he governed the way he campaigned. yurbud Dec 2016 #126

For starters, he was also a HE. nt ncgrits Dec 2016 #53

Having a long record is a disadvantage marylandblue Dec 2016 #2

I think you are right.. plus I think a younger president is more appealling Zing Zing Zingbah Dec 2016 #6

I disagree about younger being more appealing. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #71

Democrats seem to do better when they run younger candidates Zing Zing Zingbah Dec 2016 #95

Reagan got a shit load of Democrats to vote for him. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #100

Bill Clinton and Obama both won being relatively young Zing Zing Zingbah Dec 2016 #104

Feel free to keep your ageism. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #105

I'm trying to suggest something that I think will make the dems more likely to win Zing Zing Zingbah Dec 2016 #107

He is likable and she was not. He has charisma and she does not. Pisces Dec 2016 #3

Oh, piffle mcar Dec 2016 #13

Of course there is a higher standard. The first of anything has to be extraordinary. Pisces Dec 2016 #25

That might be your personal experience... Begabig Dec 2016 #56

You know Obama was the first black president, right? Goblinmonger Dec 2016 #57

Of course, there are absolutely no higher standards for African Americans... Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #72

You genuinely believe she was as personable, charismatic and inspiring as Obama? And that people JudyM Dec 2016 #74

I did not say that mcar Dec 2016 #80

Ok so what's the distinction you're making here? Looks pretty much the same to me. JudyM Dec 2016 #82

The distinction is that I wasn't comparing one to the other mcar Dec 2016 #83

But you say it was a higher standard for her than him! That's totally making a comparison. JudyM Dec 2016 #86

Maybe Lotusflower70 Dec 2016 #101

Oh, puhleeze. LisaM Dec 2016 #27

speak for yourself. i supported Obama and i find her likable JI7 Dec 2016 #28

Exactly right... RazBerryBeret Dec 2016 #102

Be a relatively young outsider in a change election? nt geek tragedy Dec 2016 #4

He had a near-catastrophic predecessor and a country on the brink enough Dec 2016 #5

Hillary would have won pretty similar to BHO in 2008 Cosmocat Dec 2016 #14

I agree NewJeffCT Dec 2016 #64

Not convinced of that. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #77

She would not have won by the same margin Cosmocat Dec 2016 #87

Obama was a natural at campaigning & he had the luxury of running right after 8 yrs of Bush mtnsnake Dec 2016 #7

He was relatively new and had far less baggage PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #8

The Media hates Hillary. They "Gored" her. Va Lefty Dec 2016 #9

there is something to that. yurbud Dec 2016 #10

YEP Cosmocat Dec 2016 #15

add in the foreign influence and huge whoring for trump JI7 Dec 2016 #30

I would not say that Obama got a fair shake in 2008 NewJeffCT Dec 2016 #65

Obama WORKED for it. 87 days in Iowa at every small town dinner Dems to Win Dec 2016 #11

When Hillary took weekends off in August I was stunned. yeoman6987 Dec 2016 #31

She was sick and is 70 years old - can you cut her a little slack!?? Joe941 Dec 2016 #90

True. yeoman6987 Dec 2016 #91

This! NWCorona Dec 2016 #67

He had no expectation that it would be handed to him on a silver platter. n/t Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #84

Obama was not beaten up in a primary. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #12

nor by the M$M ffr Dec 2016 #16

Were we watching the same 2008 primary? PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #17

McCain even used a Hillary speech in a ad against Obama. NWCorona Dec 2016 #69

Obama took it in good humor and it kept Dems in the spotlight. yurbud Dec 2016 #18

Yes he was. He was just better at deflecting the he criticism. Exilednight Dec 2016 #43

OMG. Oh, lord. Man Goblinmonger Dec 2016 #58

Are you serious? That is a laughable statement. Hillary threw kitchen sink at Obama NWCorona Dec 2016 #68

How quickly folks forget... Begabig Dec 2016 #70

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #85

"Change" "Change" "Change" Bottom line. jmg257 Dec 2016 #19

Very good question, and one simple answer. Exilednight Dec 2016 #20

it reminded me of an Obama meme that sprouted up AFTER he was elected: yurbud Dec 2016 #50

So true! JudyM Dec 2016 #75

Obama followed the 50 state strategy NWCorona Dec 2016 #21

No, he really didn't. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #37

The only states that Obama didn't visit in 08 was Alaska and North Dakota NWCorona Dec 2016 #38

His first trip to NE was in 2012 for events in Iowa. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #40

Ok I see you now. NWCorona Dec 2016 #42

more accurately, he BENEFITTED from it. The brief window of control of Congress was thanks to Howard yurbud Dec 2016 #81

Post-Bush, rural outreach in purple states, pre-Shelby County v. Holder, favorable media coverage. Garrett78 Dec 2016 #22

He was running after two terms of Bush. LisaL Dec 2016 #23

2008 was after 8 years of Bush. media was better in calling out Palin JI7 Dec 2016 #24

Easiest answer ever... Mike Nelson Dec 2016 #29

He was a "fresh face" with lots of charisma. I would have voted for her in a 2008 GE, but... Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #32

Simply put: Else You Are Mad Dec 2016 #33

be Fresh and New NRQ891 Dec 2016 #35

America wasn't ready for a Black President, and Hillary paid the price? stone space Dec 2016 #36

Hillary lost because Obama is black. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #92

OK here are my ideas hollowdweller Dec 2016 #39

excellent analysis. The WAR one can't be overstated enough yurbud Dec 2016 #78

Obama told gun owners in a town meeting that he couldn't ban "assault weapons" even if he wanted to. benEzra Dec 2016 #41

According to Obama RFKISNEEDED Dec 2016 #44

I think this question is missing the forest for the trees. TransitJohn Dec 2016 #45

when Obama ran the country had just had 8 years of bush La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #46

Don't understand how we can easily compare the two either... JHan Dec 2016 #51

On policy, Hillary is the better candidate. But she is also a poor campaigner. Tatiana Dec 2016 #47

Obama put more focus on economic inequality JudyM Dec 2016 #48

Very True. Trump more or less ran Obama's 2012 campaign playbook against Romney on Clinton. hollowdweller Dec 2016 #60

Good point. Pity that raising people's consciousness only worked on Dems, not rethugs. JudyM Dec 2016 #76

Own a penis. Squinch Dec 2016 #52

YEP. That's pretty much the baseline. He was a HE. nt ncgrits Dec 2016 #54

You read my mind. hamsterjill Dec 2016 #59

LOL, I'm still remembering the Edwards supporters in '08 primaries Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #93

Sure, sure. It had nothing to do with it. And yet, hostility to women is one of the greatest Squinch Dec 2016 #94

I'm not claiming that there was no sexism or misogyny in 2016. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #97

One more time: Hostility to women is one of the greatest predictors of a Trump vote. And Trump won. Squinch Dec 2016 #110

So you're saying that no woman can win the presidency because this one didn't. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #112

No. Actually, I never said that. I said that hostility to women was one of the strongest Squinch Dec 2016 #113

I also remember that Edwards' Iraq War vote never came up as disqualifying in any way. lapucelle Dec 2016 #108

Petraeus's responsibility for Benghazi doesn't seem to be being held against him. These are Squinch Dec 2016 #109

Men are allowed to be flawed. Women have to be perfect. lapucelle Dec 2016 #111

+1 uponit7771 Dec 2016 #122

Political baggage... Perceived and real... Begabig Dec 2016 #55

Obama had an edge Hillary couldn't: He offered a change from 8 disastrous years of Republicans DFW Dec 2016 #61

Hillary could have had that same edge but lost to Obama yurbud Dec 2016 #98

It was obvious after Cheneybish that the next president would be a Democrat DFW Dec 2016 #99

He was the change candidate and she wasn't bigbrother05 Dec 2016 #62

Win? FBaggins Dec 2016 #63

lol Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #66

He won Lil Missy Dec 2016 #79

I posted about Obama's rev Wright speech rogue emissary Dec 2016 #88

He played to the media nt Buzz cook Dec 2016 #89

an incumbent WH party with sub-40 job approval ratings TuslaUltra Dec 2016 #96

President Obama Lotusflower70 Dec 2016 #103

He ran during Bush's eighth year for one. RandySF Dec 2016 #106

I agree overall though the comparison between Hillary and Obama is important to fix things yurbud Dec 2016 #125

Obama's popularity is personal and non transferable even to his own policies TheKentuckian Dec 2016 #114

Obama benefited from being against the Iraq war, not having a long neoliberal record, jfern Dec 2016 #115

He brought 4 million more people to the polls. Coyotl Dec 2016 #116

Oh, another "Hillary is a warmonger" dig. betsuni Dec 2016 #117

The point of the thread is what Dems can do differently next time--are we allowed to do that? yurbud Dec 2016 #119

should we just let people with money tell the party what to do? yurbud Dec 2016 #120

Same Reason Obama did better in 08 than 12 JI7 Dec 2016 #118

No Comey? uponit7771 Dec 2016 #121

He was running to replace a two-term president of the other party - he represented change nt EffieBlack Dec 2016 #123

RUSSIA did not interefere in '08 or '12. They did this time. nt LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #124

Ran as a challenger opponent against the exiting admin Politicub Dec 2016 #127

Shit was on fire in 2008. dawg Dec 2016 #128

"Eight Year Itch" Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2016 #129

Democrats might think about what they can do to earn back those third party votes yurbud Dec 2016 #131

I'm not berating anybody Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2016 #132

As simplistic as it seems, it was also the 8yrs. of one party in the WH thing JCMach1 Dec 2016 #130

It wasn't so much campaign tactics as it was personality. randome Dec 2016 #134