2016 Postmortem

Raster

(20,999 posts)

322. And we agree on both points...

Wed Dec 7, 2016, 08:25 AM

Dec 2016

...In a fair election, with all votes cast counted fairly Clinton probably would have won. And second, like most American presidential elections in the last 40 or so years, this "is fucked to high heaven no doubt."

My basic points:

1. Senator Sanders candidacy in the Primary did no damage to Clinton in the General. Time to move on and focus our disappointment and anger into more productive, healthy avenues. The "circular firing squad" gets us nowhere.

2. Clinton didn't just face Trump in the General, she faced 30 years of lies, rumors, innuendo, manufactured hate and such blatantly false information that it absolutely confounds. Case-in-point: the Comet Ping-Pong Pizza bullshit: seriously...satanists, sacrificing children, hidden tunnels, etc.??? Such blatantly false information that to most logical, rational persons is head-shaking stupid, IS ACTUALLY BELIEVED by a segment of people because it's, well, Hillary, and the reich-wing media shrieking heads have thoroughly poisoned the well. The Hillary Hate collects at the top like a bilious, noxious froth. And speaking of froth, the Hillary Hate is so strongly ingrained, that many normal, rational and generally logically-thinking persons can go from calm and even-tempered to out-and-out, frothing at the mouth, bat-shit crazy in about three seconds flat. This "Hillary Hate" phenomenon alone deserves examination and study.

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Bill Press: Sanders didnt damage Clintons public image [View all] portlander23 Dec 2016 OP

Ill be crystal clear: Bernie Sanders has absolutely no business determining the course .. stonecutter357 Dec 2016 #1

Completely agree. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #9

Where did you get that quote, stonecutter? Cha Dec 2016 #15

Agree, Cha lillypaddle Dec 2016 #66

I don't listen to any of them since Nov 2002.. Cha Dec 2016 #74

Yes!! (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #28

You turn your back on the left, and you've lost your base, sylvanus Dec 2016 #54

Agreed! LP2K12 Dec 2016 #83

There is no such thing as a corporate Democrat first of all. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #131

Thank you Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2016 #137

I am so sick of this sort of comment. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #168

Quite Right Me. Dec 2016 #155

You have to pick candidates that can win in their states and districts... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #166

"There is no such thing as a corporate Democrat"? progressoid Dec 2016 #176

NO such thing? Plucketeer Dec 2016 #191

Big rallies don't mean anything if the people don't vote. Sanders could not beat Clinton. brush Dec 2016 #213

Bernie never had to Plucketeer Dec 2016 #244

But he did honeymoon in Moscow and have dialogues with the Sandanistas. brush Dec 2016 #290

And that means exactly what? Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #397

I held my nose and put a mark Plucketeer Dec 2016 #403

Did you see the votes pour in for Hillary? Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #415

Because Clinton was give a 700 super delegate head start. Joe941 Dec 2016 #433

Yeah, keep believing that. Sanders wasn't even in the race when she got those delegates. brush Dec 2016 #434

Not Clinton's fault true - it's the DNC's fault for being in the tank for Clinton! Joe941 Dec 2016 #435

Did you not get that Sanders wasn't in the race when she secured those early delegates? brush Dec 2016 #436

Do you actually think... Joe941 Dec 2016 #437

And do you think the other campaigns didn't? Sanders' campaign didn't have it's emails hacked . . . brush Dec 2016 #438

I do not believe Sanders was being helped one iota by media or DNC. They were for Hillary. Joe941 Dec 2016 #441

Exactly right. Corporate Dem was just a contrived talking point to demonize people, R B Garr Dec 2016 #219

I hope so too. I will never understand why it is somehow a principle of the left to Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #395

"far left." H-h-h-heh-heh-heh. You mean LBJ? H-h-h-heh-heh-heh. Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #254

He got medicare and the civil rights act through...and medicaid as well Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #342

Uh, yeah, I realize that. Sarcasm and irony are dead on this site, damn! Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #372

Sorry but people post that with a straight face here all the time. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #382

I thought copious use of exclamation points would be a giveaway, but no... Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #409

Do you even know what The Third Way is? LiberalLovinLug Dec 2016 #257

I do but you apparently have no idea of the context. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #340

We will agree to disagree LiberalLovinLug Dec 2016 #378

He would have needed money for the General... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #392

People had a chance to vote for Bernie or Hillary in the primaries. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #399

That is not an indicator of the general LiberalLovinLug Dec 2016 #407

Bernie lost the primary. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #411

Like I said, agree to disagree LiberalLovinLug Dec 2016 #430

Only in the manifesto of Bernie. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #284

No such thing as a corporate democrat, you are as naive as you are misinformed. sylvanus Dec 2016 #292

Apparently the definition of "corporate Democrat" ehrnst Dec 2016 #331

I know what the Democratic Party stands for... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #335

What is the difference between republicans and democrats? bec Dec 2016 #315

There is no such thing as a corporate Democrat. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #332

The problem with all this is this country is NOT going to jump that far to the left that fast nini Dec 2016 #187

Well then, were fucked. And that socialism bullshit, sylvanus Dec 2016 #293

You completely missed my point nini Dec 2016 #302

Tennesse will not vote for a Democrat ...not even Sanders. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #394

Because they hadn't seen the tax increases he proposed. bettyellen Dec 2016 #431

Hillary called Trump Putin's puppet in the last debate Omaha Steve Dec 2016 #298

'I don't see large numbers of people refusing Social Security or Medicare. - nini Dec 2016 #303

+ a brazillion n/t Cairycat Dec 2016 #237

Yeah, you should be lecturing Senator Sanders about this. George II Dec 2016 #250

Because if you don't fall in line with the manifesto, you aren't "left" ehrnst Dec 2016 #270

Spot On! The Democrats have stopped being an opposition party Chasstev365 Dec 2016 #280

Thanks RickHworth Dec 2016 #297

You are so right. OnionPatch Dec 2016 #301

Yup, Bernie showed us the way to victory with his appeal to average folk... InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #333

Because the litmus test for "the left" or "true progressives" has become a manifesto ehrnst Dec 2016 #339

I hate to rain on your parade ...not really! Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #412

If the Spineless Democrats in Congress,the Corporatists, sit on their hands and allow INdemo Dec 2016 #420

I googled! Bernie Sanders has absolutely no business determining the course of the Democratic Party Cha Dec 2016 #58

He set up his re-election committee even before the Convention, registered as an independent. George II Dec 2016 #253

Yeah, what a guy. Cha Dec 2016 #305

I wish that quote was perma posted on the front page of DU Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #402

I agree...nt asuhornets Dec 2016 #60

We need direction from Left-leaning leaders or we will repeat 2016 Gore1FL Dec 2016 #97

He is not a Democrat by choice. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #398

He is a member of the left coalition which is fundamentally Democratic in a 2 party system Gore1FL Dec 2016 #406

If we want to be united than we should all join one of the two parties...may I suggest the Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #413

I find it pretty easy to get by the labels. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #419

Having loyalty to the only party that can stop the GOP is not about labels. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #423

Because in presidential elections we are a 2-party system Gore1FL Dec 2016 #428

OMG...you were told from the very beginning that Hillary Clinton was a flawed candidate. INdemo Dec 2016 #119

We don't know that Bernie would have been president-elect bekkilyn Dec 2016 #139

Maybe, but I doubt it but just maybe by 2020 Democrats will get their INdemo Dec 2016 #160

Need to get that act together long before 2020 bekkilyn Dec 2016 #169

Didn't work indeed! What we needed was a true progressive... that person?... Bernie! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #336

If this corporate crap continues , we will lose in 20 Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #400

Would you like for me to define a "Corporate Democrat"? INdemo Dec 2016 #408

You can give me any definition you can make up, but I maintain Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #410

I also voted for Hillary after supporting Bernie but, Mr. Evil Dec 2016 #243

Perhaps, but... bekkilyn Dec 2016 #260

I think that's a fair statement... while we obviously will never know for sure what might have been, I have a pretty good idea. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #341

Bernie is just the most likable candidate we've seen in a long time... not to mention RIGHT on so many issues! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #338

I am guilty nolabels Dec 2016 #375

I really doubt either Bernie or Elizabeth will run in 20... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #401

I'd be all for it if a progressive comes along that has Bernie's charisma who can appeal to common folk the way he does and, like Bernie, is on the right side of the issues... InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #404

He would be 80 I think. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #414

You make some good points... all I'm sayin is, someone like Bernie, regardless of age, is unique in his ability to relate to people. THAT'S what a politician needs more than anything... InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #417

By 20, people may be really over the outsider meme Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #425

Precisely one of the points I've been trying to get across to people. You made it a lot more succinctly Demsrule... my compliments! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #426

Hillary was also 1000 smarter more honest and eloquent than Trump.... bettyellen Dec 2016 #374

Bernie Could have won there is not a doubt in my mind INdemo Dec 2016 #381

She built an echo chamber.... sfwriter Dec 2016 #142

This progressoid Dec 2016 #177

Stop the Bernie bashing? ... that's all some people here have left. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #334

Agreed Gothmog Dec 2016 #127

This cannot be repeated enough, IMO! BlueMTexpat Dec 2016 #165

Total BS budkin Dec 2016 #193

Yet ejbr Dec 2016 #194

Clinton would have lost without him. Jesus. Goblinmonger Dec 2016 #195

Lost referring to the popular vote... I hope! mwooldri Dec 2016 #199

Well NOBODY at the top has any business determining the course of the Democratic Party for US! JCanete Dec 2016 #197

+ One million lunamagica Dec 2016 #202

How about the millions of Democrats who voted for Bernie; do they get no say in shaping the Party? Martin Eden Dec 2016 #299

+1 (nt) bekkilyn Dec 2016 #352

And yet he is because he is making it his business. aikoaiko Dec 2016 #432

I hope the blame and the finger pointing will stop soon and we can all be united.. We are in for a secondwind Dec 2016 #2

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #3

...and vice versa? n/t OKNancy Dec 2016 #5

Well fortunately for those who are angry at Bernie and his supporters el_bryanto Dec 2016 #12

That's hilarious. It's this type of passive-aggressive unreality tripe that makes Bernie look R B Garr Dec 2016 #20

No I didn't claim that. what I am claiming is that centrist Democrats el_bryanto Dec 2016 #25

Bernie is willing to work with him, too. But look at how ready you are to divide the party R B Garr Dec 2016 #30

IOKIYB boston bean Dec 2016 #36

Bingo! R B Garr Dec 2016 #39

Yes - we should all get along, which in the minds of many HRC supporters means el_bryanto Dec 2016 #37

if one is gonna bad mouth democrats, they should expect a response. boston bean Dec 2016 #40

So the many signs given by congressional democrats that they are willing to work with Trump el_bryanto Dec 2016 #49

yeah, it bothers me, does it bother you that Bernie said he would? Answer that and then we can boston bean Dec 2016 #53

Define "Democrat"! It's my party too, and I refuse to Exilednight Dec 2016 #146

No need to do that, but pushing your own reality is not how to go about it. R B Garr Dec 2016 #47

So you think that Bernie supporters are liars and hoodwinkers? el_bryanto Dec 2016 #52

pretty sure that is not what was said. but that was a good ole college try on that. boston bean Dec 2016 #59

I actually did laugh at that comment. Again, it's this type of tunnel vision, all or nothing R B Garr Dec 2016 #206

Here it comes again with the demonizing people with divisiveness. I see why R B Garr Dec 2016 #209

Bernie jumped on the Trump train much quicker than the Hillary train and that is a fact. His post seaglass Dec 2016 #120

Absolutely! It's like his own version of a victory lap. More in-your-face R B Garr Dec 2016 #211

Actually the guy from WVA says he won't work with Trump on Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #102

Which Centrist Dems are ready to work with Trump Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2016 #147

This message was self-deleted by its author ehrnst Dec 2016 #272

Apparently anyone who isn't in lockstep with Bernie is either ehrnst Dec 2016 #275

You mean like Tulsi? And Bernie with his offer of $10 minimum wage? ehrnst Dec 2016 #285

Bernie is trying to help poor people through 4 years of Donald Trump. Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #67

Right because there is a snowball's chance in hell that the GOP will enact Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #105

The person who should stop trying to find a villain is Bernie. R B Garr Dec 2016 #205

Thank you. Excellent post. Justice Dec 2016 #351

Yeah, but Hillary was a "sellout" for settling for $13 an hour according to the gospel of Bernie ehrnst Dec 2016 #273

Bernie is not a Democrat...he hurts the party. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #8

I would like to see some objective studies Cary Dec 2016 #27

The radical left I( not Democrats) loses elections...they have no idea nor the motivation Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #81

Al Gore, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton are radical left? SpareribSP Dec 2016 #289

We won the popular vote, and there is a whitelash against 8 years of a black president. ehrnst Dec 2016 #328

The radical left ...the Greens...not Democrats cost us the election in Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #343

Here's a great piece on why manifesto type movements fail. ehrnst Dec 2016 #286

What an awful message you're sending to many people here on this forum with this statement bekkilyn Dec 2016 #31

No, if one doesn' like democrats and has nothing good to say about them, but are full of vim and boston bean Dec 2016 #43

So why are you lumping Bernie and the rest of us in with those people? bekkilyn Dec 2016 #62

I am a democrat. bernie is not. What do you want from me? boston bean Dec 2016 #64

So all you look for is a D beside the name on a ballot and nothing else. Gotcha. (nt) bekkilyn Dec 2016 #71

Well, it is one way to tell, that is for sure. boston bean Dec 2016 #77

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #87

So, you are so principled you couldn't vote for Hillary? boston bean Dec 2016 #88

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #91

I vote for the Democrat always...and until more do...the GOP will decide policy... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #132

More? You and yours will have the party Whiging out in less than 20 years, 12 if you TheKentuckian Dec 2016 #306

I don't care for your insults... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #344

The mayor of my town is an I and is widely popular with both D's and R's and does a great job. bekkilyn Dec 2016 #99

So, how did you vote in the GE? boston bean Dec 2016 #113

I voted for Hillary of course bekkilyn Dec 2016 #130

Great post. Spot the fuck on. Lucky Luciano Dec 2016 #171

Bravo! Excellent post! Raster Dec 2016 #222

+ 1000 LiberalLovinLug Dec 2016 #248

Your logical fallacy is strawman. ehrnst Dec 2016 #327

They've admitted they only vote for D's bekkilyn Dec 2016 #346

You would have preferred Bernie had run as an Independent? Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #76

Yeah, I think I would have. boston bean Dec 2016 #78

srsly? That's exactly what Trump wanted too! progressoid Dec 2016 #184

Yes ...his words hurt Hillary far more than they would have Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #108

well said! Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #107

There is a huge difference between "disrespecting" Democrats and dealing with hard truths hueymahl Dec 2016 #157

I am not going to agree with sanders that the party needs boston bean Dec 2016 #185

You call it "artful smearing" I call it telling truth to power hueymahl Dec 2016 #204

It is an untrue statement by bernie sanders. boston bean Dec 2016 #215

Just so I know what we are talking about hueymahl Dec 2016 #216

That the democratic party is not representing the people. boston bean Dec 2016 #217

Thanks. hueymahl Dec 2016 #221

really? JHan Dec 2016 #307

It is directly comparable to Romney's 47% hueymahl Dec 2016 #353

No it wasn't, JHan Dec 2016 #354

Respectfully, I don't feel like you read my response (or, more likely, I was not being clear) hueymahl Dec 2016 #355

An independent can support who he/she chooses. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #86

Oh please Cary Dec 2016 #173

Are you saying that someone who won't lower himself to join the party he wants to lead ehrnst Dec 2016 #274

People with such terrible attitudes towards their allies are not helping. bekkilyn Dec 2016 #296

We won't build bridges by throwing the issues that affect the lives of ehrnst Dec 2016 #361

Not what Bernie is advocating at all bekkilyn Dec 2016 #370

If saying that he was "ashamed" of Democrats after the election was bridge building ehrnst Dec 2016 #373

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree and move on (nt) bekkilyn Dec 2016 #376

Let me just add that I don't mean to brush you off bekkilyn Dec 2016 #377

This message was self-deleted by its author ehrnst Dec 2016 #380

Let's not make the mistake of equating voicing valid concerns with "bashing." ehrnst Dec 2016 #384

Disagreeing is fine bekkilyn Dec 2016 #388

I'm saying we are stronger together (nt) bekkilyn Dec 2016 #348

Bernie is the only actual Democrat who was running ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #61

The democratic party stands for all that as well. boston bean Dec 2016 #68

yeah, I can really tell. ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #72

Then that is on you then. boston bean Dec 2016 #82

Bernie is not a registered Democrat... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #90

yes, I know that. He is also the only one running ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #95

yeah I must have seen something different all year.. JHan Dec 2016 #103

yes, you must have seen something different ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #118

Evidence of the rampant corruption is where exactly? JHan Dec 2016 #133

oy vey. ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #144

I am not pissed off at you btw, If my words come off as an attack on you I apologise but... JHan Dec 2016 #163

I appreciate this substantive response ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #170

Yes, at first glance it seems so but.. JHan Dec 2016 #175

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #104

"The only one running who is espousing the fight for people over corporate money." ehrnst Dec 2016 #287

you enjoy putting words into other people's mouths ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #321

I copied and pasted from your post. Yeah, strange habit. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #323

"Because everyone else is evil in direct proportion to Bernie's sainthood" ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #345

We get it - you really like Bernie, Dude! ehrnst Dec 2016 #362

And where are you going with that? Cary Dec 2016 #174

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #294

"A minority here" Cary Dec 2016 #23

We need to remember what Bernie said and did before making him any sort of ehrnst Dec 2016 #29

I wonder why he cares so much about the democratic party if it is so filled with a bunch of losers boston bean Dec 2016 #38

Starting a party would require skills that Bernie does not have ehrnst Dec 2016 #42

i think, if I can speak for Sanders here ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #65

He still has not joined the party he has said for DECADES he would NEVER join. boston bean Dec 2016 #69

He's one of the only Senators who actually fights for what the Democratic Party ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #75

yeah, they will all just dismantle and follow bernie... I dont' think so. LOL boston bean Dec 2016 #84

dismantle? ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #92

I would not allow him a leadership role nor would I have allowed him Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #109

You can blame him for Clinton's loss if you wish to. ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #125

Really...still beating the meme...Hillary Clinton is not corrupt and never was. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #135

Clinton's corruption is the legal kind ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #154

Right - there were no progressives before or since Bernie.... ehrnst Dec 2016 #276

nice strawman ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #320

You're the expert. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #324

He still has responsibilities to the people of Vermont who voted for him bekkilyn Dec 2016 #89

Did you know Vermont elected a GOP governor? Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #112

I think you can't speak for Sanders, frankly. ehrnst Dec 2016 #277

What he hates is having to raise corporate money for the Party. Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #80

Helping elect the GOP is selling us out and consider if there Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #114

Your opinion on Bernie, fine. Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #383

First of all Hillary was not corrupt nor is the Democratic Party... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #416

Both Partys are chock full of politicians who have sold their soul and ours too in order Dustlawyer Dec 2016 #418

You speak truth, and you say it well. Thirties Child Dec 2016 #429

The unions were the traditional source of money for dems, but their backs have been broken ehrnst Dec 2016 #329

Yes, THIS Martin Eden Dec 2016 #249

Some perspective to back that up BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #4

And the money quote... Raster Dec 2016 #14

SoS usually enjoy high favorability, and when she runs her favorability always drops ehrnst Dec 2016 #46

Deny, spin, deny... Raster Dec 2016 #121

When you have no response, just smokescreen, rinse, repeat. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #271

I think that Bernie reinforced some of the smears among his followers ehrnst Dec 2016 #34

Politicians are going to politic BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #63

She was held to different standards than any other male contemporary ehrnst Dec 2016 #330

So Hillary for Prison was not started and allowed at his rallies? Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #6

bill press has an agenda.. he's full of BS if he thinks anyone Cha Dec 2016 #16

Gosh the media really takes us fer fools! Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #19

Yeah, most of it does. Cha Dec 2016 #22

It actually wasn't. It's been around since 2014.... TCJ70 Dec 2016 #35

So he stopped them at his rallies, though! Class act! Statesman! Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #41

Guess what Bill you damaged our nominee as well...so I have no interest in anything you say. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #7

Thank you, Demsrule! What he's trying to pull.. Cha Dec 2016 #24

How about gathering facts? Cary Dec 2016 #33

How did that work out for ya. sylvanus Dec 2016 #57

Bill Press Coolest Ranger Dec 2016 #10

Thank you, Coolest Ranger.. yeah, press was in on it.. We Cha Dec 2016 #17

1000 sheshe2 Dec 2016 #223

Bet All His Callers Were Anti-Hillary Too otohara Dec 2016 #238

Well when you have media Coolest Ranger Dec 2016 #239

Okay otohara Dec 2016 #251

Then that's your fault Coolest Ranger Dec 2016 #256

I find it hard to believe after reading the numerous vitriolic attacks on Clinton Nitram Dec 2016 #11

Sanders and the divisive primary he created is to blame... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #13

You just proved that HRC was a terrible campaigner and the worse candidate the Dems Larkspur Dec 2016 #143

Hillary never came close to saying the terrible things about Obama that Bernie said about her day Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #153

HRC brought up the ghost of the RFK assassination to justify why she was staying in the 2008 Larkspur Dec 2016 #233

Thank you, Demsrule.. Hillary did everything right. She put out no Cha Dec 2016 #156

LOL hueymahl Dec 2016 #162

Hmmm lots to think about here mdbl Dec 2016 #18

Thirty years+ on the political scene and Socialist Bernie damaged her image? jalan48 Dec 2016 #21

Bernie claimed that you had to have the binary ideology ehrnst Dec 2016 #70

He was running against Clinton for the nomination. The fact that his message resonated with millions jalan48 Dec 2016 #85

did bernie sanders win the nomination by 3+ million votes? boston bean Dec 2016 #126

And then she lost to the worst Presidential candidate in US history. jalan48 Dec 2016 #138

She got more votes than any candidate in history (and counting) other than Obama. ehrnst Dec 2016 #363

She was the nominee, she lost, we got Trump. jalan48 Dec 2016 #364

You mean like not follow up a black man in the White House for 8 years? ehrnst Dec 2016 #365

That's your opinion and if it makes losing more palatable, go for it. jalan48 Dec 2016 #366

Not just my opinion. And we didn't lose the popular vote. ehrnst Dec 2016 #367

Yep-it's the voters fault. jalan48 Dec 2016 #368

This message was self-deleted by its author ehrnst Dec 2016 #369

Not what I said, but if attacking a straw man makes things palatable for you, go for it. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #371

RW lying "media" created the phoney negative narrative arthritisR_US Dec 2016 #196

And those speeches to Wall Street? jalan48 Dec 2016 #203

What about them? arthritisR_US Dec 2016 #263

A Democrat taking millons from Wall Street for "Speeches" proves your point? jalan48 Dec 2016 #356

Those turned out to be a big yawn. And Bernie's tax returns? ehrnst Dec 2016 #385

And Democrat's yawned all the way to victory lane. jalan48 Dec 2016 #405

White men did, thanks to some real misinformation perpetuated on both sides. ehrnst Dec 2016 #421

The whole ethos of Bernie's campaign was divisive. It was intended to be that way. R B Garr Dec 2016 #26

We're going to pretend what happened this year didn't happen.. JHan Dec 2016 #44

What Sacred Cows? ehrnst Dec 2016 #51

I think we're on the same page.. JHan Dec 2016 #93

What was Sanders crime again? running with a populist message? ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #96

From the looks of it. Bernie's crime was to have the nerve to run against Hillary. Nt NWCorona Dec 2016 #115

Really? He seems to have a chip on his shoulder about being beaten by women ehrnst Dec 2016 #265

Running a divisive bitter primary against both Hillary and the Democratic Party Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #116

Have you been following politics for very long? ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #141

I have been interested in politics for years... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #159

I remember Kennedy/Carter too, and was going to mention it, ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #167

It's funny how some Dems think Bernie was divisive causing the loss mdbl Dec 2016 #317

I don't recall Obama running on the idea that Hillary was a corporate shill ehrnst Dec 2016 #266

And why was that? ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #319

It's a cabal, isn't it? The Democratic Party. Makes you wonder why Bernie wants to lead it... (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #325

I thought you wuz mad because Sanders wasn't even in the party ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #347

Building his brand, selling his book, trying to keep staff on his superpac. ehrnst Dec 2016 #422

No Bernie Crime, but DownriverDem Dec 2016 #128

well, suck it up ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #136

If only he would lower himself to join the party.... ehrnst Dec 2016 #267

He doesn't work well with people, as much as he tells people what to do. ehrnst Dec 2016 #326

Jesus, we get it dude. You don't like him ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #349

"He doesn't have to be your bestest fwend." ehrnst Dec 2016 #359

Terrible Bernie! Tryin' to sound like Hubert Humphrey & those other Trotskyites! Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #255

A 'populist' message that required you hate Hillary just as much as you supported Bernie.(nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #337

Again, you are a master mind reader ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #350

Nothing she does is "enough," is it? ehrnst Dec 2016 #360

Well said, JHan.. why don't they deal in the facts of why he lost? Cha Dec 2016 #183

Interesting. "why don't they deal in the facts of why he lost?" progressoid Dec 2016 #186

Yes, and your description is very apt. R B Garr Dec 2016 #214

If that were true, Bernie would have conceded after March 15... SidDithers Dec 2016 #32

All this hate is becoming quite comical if you ask me. I'm not worried about NWCorona Dec 2016 #45

Both sides are wrong. safeinOhio Dec 2016 #48

This disaster is the media's fault - by a very large margin , they are the ones who.... Lucky Luciano Dec 2016 #50

Yes, he did ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #55

I have never squirmed and I don't see anyone else doing that either. NWCorona Dec 2016 #111

Actually, it's the Clinton folks squirming zipplewrath Dec 2016 #246

But people loved her before Bernie came along!! vi5 Dec 2016 #56

Hillary Clinton is a big ol' vote-getter. Orsino Dec 2016 #73

Pretty sure that's not true standingtall Dec 2016 #261

I agree with Bill Press on this one. mountain grammy Dec 2016 #79

Bill Press is wrong. I know people in real life who wouldn't vote for Cha Dec 2016 #94

Hillary lost because of Clinton fatigue. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #100

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #106

65 Million Votes and counting for Hillary says you're wrong. Cha Dec 2016 #110

A lot of those votes were from Democrats, like me, who supported Bernie in the primary Larkspur Dec 2016 #129

You know, you really don't help your case with the Hold-Your-Nose stuff kcr Dec 2016 #224

In 2008, I was an Anyone but Hillary Democratic Primary voter Larkspur Dec 2016 #229

Yes, but did those 65 million votes put her in the White House... Raster Dec 2016 #145

In a fair election they would've, this election... on its face.... is fucked to high heaven no doubt uponit7771 Dec 2016 #309

And we agree on both points... Raster Dec 2016 #322

She should have received a lot more votes! denvine Dec 2016 #161

Considering the M$M was in the bag for the sociopath and Comey and Cha Dec 2016 #164

Voter suppression, Comey and M$M email stories says that's false... she was running up hill from uponit7771 Dec 2016 #310

The electoral college says I am right. nt Gore1FL Dec 2016 #178

Yay! A rigged system designed to help slaveholders says you're right! n/t kcr Dec 2016 #225

It wasn't about slaveholding states Larkspur Dec 2016 #231

Bottom line: We don't have a Democrat as president. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #232

Most Americans disagree with the EC and don't want DPutin uponit7771 Dec 2016 #311

We, nonetheless, lost the election. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #358

I'd be more inclined to cut him slack BainsBane Dec 2016 #98

Given the credentials Theda supposedly has, I would have hoped for more than JCanete Dec 2016 #200

Supposedly? BainsBane Dec 2016 #212

Well no irony here. The same forces that fucked with Clinton's campaign fucked with JCanete Dec 2016 #227

Hard fought primaries are not something new. BigBoss26 Dec 2016 #101

It is looking more and more like she did not lose. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #117

So what you're saying is that everyone should have just gotten out of the way for Hillary? BigBoss26 Dec 2016 #148

Yes running during a primary and saying the divisive things he did... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #152

There's no substance to your argument. BigBoss26 Dec 2016 #182

OFFS. Did you see the primaries of 08? progressoid Dec 2016 #189

I said it during the primary, and I still believe it Saviolo Dec 2016 #258

Yes I blame the media and the FBI too True_Blue Dec 2016 #308

Straw man much? (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #279

Everyone knows that when you have the White House for two terms ehrnst Dec 2016 #282

Since Obama won both the EV and Popular Vote twice, HRC should have won them in 2016 Larkspur Dec 2016 #122

Actually that is not true...historically winning a third term after a two term presidency Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #140

You prove my point that HRC is a terrible candidate Larkspur Dec 2016 #228

Okay, But DownriverDem Dec 2016 #123

All the Blame? kebob Dec 2016 #124

I disagree Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2016 #134

Hillary didn't lose because of Bernie. She lost because she was a shitty candidate. backscatter712 Dec 2016 #149

Clinton was a good candidate for a different environment. JCanete Dec 2016 #220

Don't forget her IWR vote. PassingFair Dec 2016 #236

the republican most used breibart.com fake news, newsmax & this Hill were up there with the top 5 Sunlei Dec 2016 #150

A Question Here For The Hillary Supporters & Bernie Bashers Here In This Thread..... global1 Dec 2016 #151

Press is a jerk, but I tend to agree that Sanders wasn't the real problem in this election Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #158

Press is right. The Clintons are over with saltpoint Dec 2016 #172

Sanders is not a Democrat and has no business determining the course of the Democratic Party. Lil Missy Dec 2016 #179

Clinton had faults but Sanders did hurt her but this is politics. hrmjustin Dec 2016 #180

yeah, I'm so worried that someone like bp says Hillary is over.. Cha Dec 2016 #181

DU Rec. SixString Dec 2016 #188

FU old white man Bill Press. nt WhiteTara Dec 2016 #190

Bingo budkin Dec 2016 #192

Nailed it! Nt LostOne4Ever Dec 2016 #198

FUCK!!!! Bill Press bigdarryl Dec 2016 #201

Indeed. nt Dr Hobbitstein Dec 2016 #218

I wish the last line weren't there. I like most of that article JCanete Dec 2016 #207

Oh give it a frigging rest would you? We have much bigger fish to fry than navel gazing Dr. Mullion Blasto Dec 2016 #208

The Clintons damaged the Clintons. closeupready Dec 2016 #210

I see that 25 years of RW smears weren't lost on the left, were they? ehrnst Dec 2016 #269

Two Hillary bashing posts from the poster in one morning (did I miss others?). riversedge Dec 2016 #226

This is mostly not a Hillary bashing post. The last line sucks, and we need to move JCanete Dec 2016 #230

I myself have stayed out of the many Hillary bashing theads here in the postmortem and riversedge Dec 2016 #234

Unfortunately moving to many people is carrying on the same battles Cary Dec 2016 #241

I am at a loss Cary Dec 2016 #240

I'm on board with that. JudyM Dec 2016 #259

Press was part of the group who wanted Bernie to run. Not exactly impartial here. n/t Lucinda Dec 2016 #235

Thanks jimlup Dec 2016 #242

Thinly veiled insult there. ehrnst Dec 2016 #278

If you think Bernie is the reason Hillary lost jimlup Dec 2016 #291

Press is a jackass. johnp3907 Dec 2016 #245

The mood of the electorate is anti-establishment for a reason gator108 Dec 2016 #247

Yeah, Bernie is totally the 'future' of a party he won't lower himself to join. ehrnst Dec 2016 #268

stop with your bs about race gator108 Dec 2016 #281

When he dismisses everything that doesn't focus on "white working class" ehrnst Dec 2016 #283

Cornell West... we could've stopped right there uponit7771 Dec 2016 #312

The anti-establishment angle is overblown. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #304

Yeap, the anti establishment shit was part of the M$M normalizing DPutins Band Of Bigots uponit7771 Dec 2016 #313

YES! elleng Dec 2016 #252

Absolutely alarimer Dec 2016 #262

And this place is right back to being a cesspool. nt JTFrog Dec 2016 #264

Hell, let's settle this once and for all: It's all MY fault, and I accept responsibility. Buns_of_Fire Dec 2016 #288

Simply said, the Democratic Party failed to address the needs of the majority of voters. mia Dec 2016 #295

A voice of reason amid the squawking "but but but" MaeScott Dec 2016 #316

i totally disagree with Bill Press ... megametta Dec 2016 #300

Well this thread quakerboy Dec 2016 #314

+1 (nt) bekkilyn Dec 2016 #357

Because "leftists" need to take responsibility for 80 years of helping reaction win. forjusticethunders Dec 2016 #379

There's a difference between JNelson6563 Dec 2016 #318

Again, she got the popular vote. Any other time (besides Gore) she would be the winner. Rex Dec 2016 #386

She did lose portlander23 Dec 2016 #387

Exactly, we did our job and voted for her and she won the PV. Rex Dec 2016 #389

As I recall the stories the media released came out on 9/11/2001 portlander23 Dec 2016 #390

Wow that is creepy. Yeah it was around then. Rex Dec 2016 #391

This was crazy close portlander23 Dec 2016 #393

Obama had 10 million more votes than Romney. Rex Dec 2016 #396

She didn't get the swastika/confederate flag vote, if that's what you mean. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #424

Maybe, but his supporters who called here a crook, criticized her for emails, etc., did hurt. Hoyt Dec 2016 #427

real politicians run against real opponents quaker bill Dec 2016 #439

Not just her but anyone who helped her. Look what he did to DWS, Donna Brazille, ucrdem Dec 2016 #440