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2016 Postmortem

In reply to the discussion: 'Member Obama in 2008? [View all]

BainsBane

(55,179 posts)
15. Because you equate the 2008 and 16 elections as though they were comparable
Sat Dec 10, 2016, 08:13 PM
Dec 2016

as though the only difference were the individuals running.
Those elections are not comparable for what should be the most obvious of reasons: Democrats were the incumbent party in 2016, so your comment about the candidates means little.

And in this year you're going to cite polls as some sort of absolute? I have no trouble believing that Trump voters believed that con man more credible on the question between money and politics. They believe all kinds of shit, most of it factually wrong. Clinton ran on policies designed to address the problem, whereas Trump did not. To pretend Clinton did not have those policies or didn't talk about the issue is factually false.

Trump had no policies on campaign finance reform, but he did have the kind of empty rhetotoric that has become all the rage. He treated campaign finance as a rhetorical insult, which is precisely how the anti-Democratic "left" deals with the issue, where blame for the system is placed entirely on one woman (or sometimes Corey Booker and Obama) rather than any concern for actual policy addressing the issue. The subtext is that women and African Americans corrupt a political system that needs to be "taken back." The anti-Clinton nitwits even insisted that she was beholden to Citizen United, when the suit itself was based on a political film that smeared Hillary Clinton. They imagine that If only the Democrats ran morally righteous candidates, the problem would disappear. Nevermind that at least one of the candidates they hold up diverted millions of campaign dollars to himself, but they are far more concerned with rhetoric than practice. Don't tell the truth. Don't propose thoughtful policy positions. Play to the ignorance of voters and become rich (or even richer) in the process. I have even seen the Vichy collaboration arguing that four years of Trump was worth shocking Democrats into breaking financial ties with big donors, as though that could possibly happen without changes in the law. I suppose it could if they want to ensure the Democrats are a permanent minority, and I suspect for some that is precisely what they want, particularly those on JPR who openly declare their mission the destruction of the Democratic Party.

They had their chance to vote to reform the campaign finance system and they chose to turn the national treasury over a conman. They don't 'get to then turn around and act self righteous when the fact is they voted against what they pretend to care about.
Moreover, the political situation is becoming more dire by the minute. You go ahead and keep focusing on already moot debates about the 2016 election. The rest of us are focused on trying to contain the damage of a fascist Manchurian president.








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'Member Obama in 2008? [View all] Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 OP
2008 was a different time than 2016. 2008 was far more favorable for democrats JI7 Dec 2016 #1
Running against Trump is about as favorable as someone can get. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #2
look at the people elected to congress. establishment complaints were mostly JI7 Dec 2016 #4
How is it you can't understand that there is a difference BainsBane Dec 2016 #3
And they ignore feingolds loss JI7 Dec 2016 #5
Clinton beat Trump on "making wise trade policy decisions" in that same poll. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #7
I agree that many Americans are stupid and gullible. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #6
fdr was before civil rights JI7 Dec 2016 #8
And Obama was elected after civil rights. n/t Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #9
in a different environment but with same groups that supported Clinton JI7 Dec 2016 #10
He also remained just as "favorable" in the 2016 CNN exit polls as he did in 2012. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #13
Obama is a unique rate politician and there is nobody else like him JI7 Dec 2016 #14
Yeah, because the opinions of voters who think Obama is a Muslim BainsBane Dec 2016 #16
He lost some appeal to me with that appointment. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #17
Because you equate the 2008 and 16 elections as though they were comparable BainsBane Dec 2016 #15
She talked about campaign finance reform. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #18
Trump didn't win. Trump fixed the central vote counting machines with Putin's help UCmeNdc Dec 2016 #11
I sincerely hope that's the case and it's proven to be true. n/t Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #12
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