2016 Postmortem

Baitball Blogger

(48,556 posts)

42. They can sue. Read the lawsuits in the Bush v Gore fiasco.

Wed Dec 14, 2016, 12:05 PM

Dec 2016

Gore got docked because he only asked for recounts in three counties. The legal reasoning was that he wasn't being fair by asking recounts in all of them. The ultimate logic was that voters weren't being treated equally. So you sue the states for disenfranchising voters because the states are knowingly running elections with faulty machines. And when the court ruling forces the state to update them, THAT's when the donation money collected by the DNC can be donated to protect Democratic votes in the precincts where we're losing Democratic votes due to the faulty machines.

BTW, we learned back in 2000 that, in Florida, the Democratic precincts were using older machines that have a higher percentage of errors, than the Republican precincts. Yes, they were using different technology. I don't know if that situation has changed, which means that Democratic precincts are still losing important votes in Florida.

So, I don't want to hear Democratic leaders lamenting the loss of an election by 20 or 30 thousand votes in a state we should have won, when they could have garnered a win if they had been proactive.

Think about this. Republicans are purging Democratic voters with little push back and we are losing votes because Democratic precincts have faulty machines. No offense, but I think we know who is at fault here.

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How Clinton lost Michigan and blew the election [View all] geek tragedy Dec 2016 OP

No. This. rzemanfl Dec 2016 #1

we can't learn from mistakes if we can't acknowledge them nt geek tragedy Dec 2016 #2

Can't win a batting title if the umpire calls balls strikes to help rzemanfl Dec 2016 #17

good hitters adjust to umpires' strike zones. geek tragedy Dec 2016 #20

Doesn't work if the pitch sails 10 feet over the backstop stopbush Dec 2016 #38

first step is always to do the best we can geek tragedy Dec 2016 #40

That's exactly true. zentrum Dec 2016 #97

2004 Howard Dean would have done a better job. geek tragedy Dec 2016 #110

Couldn't agree more. zentrum Dec 2016 #136

Many Democrats were urging Obama to replace DWS as early as autumn 2015, lapucelle Dec 2016 #191

Can't count the number zentrum Dec 2016 #197

Thank you for pointing that out so I didn't have to. n/t rzemanfl Dec 2016 #152

thank you, when i heard that people were warning okieinpain Dec 2016 #45

The old expression Lithos Dec 2016 #113

run/play like you're 20 points down seems to be a good rule geek tragedy Dec 2016 #123

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #190

There is much evidence of cheating in Michigan...the election results are a mess and yet Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #200

I don't think you are talking to me, but are addressing the OP. n/t rzemanfl Dec 2016 #203

Still lost Pennsylvania as well exboyfil Dec 2016 #3

I would bet many of the same failings from Michigan were replicated in PA and WI. nt geek tragedy Dec 2016 #6

obama and Hillary went to PA over and over again dsc Dec 2016 #9

they went to Philly and Pittsburgh, nt geek tragedy Dec 2016 #12

did they ever go outside of those places? pstokely Dec 2016 #189

not that I'm aware of, not with any frequency nt geek tragedy Dec 2016 #195

Oops. That didn't work out well. jalan48 Dec 2016 #4

No, having 150,000 votes taken away from Clinton lost Michigan Botany Dec 2016 #5

I'd put my money on that explanation. rurallib Dec 2016 #14

We can continue to scream.... texasmomof3 Dec 2016 #23

Bullshit. Count the vote and HRC won the electoral college too. Botany Dec 2016 #25

Show some proof... Team Hillary screwed the pooch... Yurovsky Dec 2016 #28

here you go Botany Dec 2016 #30

Interesting. Have you seen any reports of voters whose name was purged and were unable to vote? nt jonno99 Dec 2016 #59

One of the sick things behind "cross check" was that in some cases people could vote Botany Dec 2016 #66

How would that happen? If I go down to vote, they check that my name is on the registration jonno99 Dec 2016 #70

If your name was removed from the poll book you would get a provisional ballot .... Botany Dec 2016 #90

Umm... LovingA2andMI Dec 2016 #137

Thank you... Yurovsky Dec 2016 #196

K/R!!! LovingA2andMI Dec 2016 #199

She campaigned regularly in Pennsylvania and Ohio. (eom) StevieM Dec 2016 #73

i worked for Clinton in OH Botany Dec 2016 #174

You are missing the bigger picture... texasmomof3 Dec 2016 #165

Why isn't she fighting for the votes that were stolen from her? Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #198

Let them vote against us again in 4 years Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #52

Elections are never a lock. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #176

Your theory is a guess at best, Comey, Voter suppression and Russia are NOT guess's uponit7771 Dec 2016 #81

Exactly. nt SunSeeker Dec 2016 #89

Except that it isn't just a white house loss.... texasmomof3 Dec 2016 #166

yeah but she only lost by 10,000 votes. that is something okieinpain Dec 2016 #46

How close the election actually was seems to not have been grokked by many posters... PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #56

That's how I've been seeing it too ... ZoomBubba Dec 2016 #127

Someone sounds pissed they didn't ask Sanders opinion.... bettyellen Dec 2016 #7

they didn't ask anyone's opinion geek tragedy Dec 2016 #10

There were a few 'gotcha' videos citood Dec 2016 #33

they fell in love with technology and data analysis without recognizing the inherent geek tragedy Dec 2016 #36

True...but... citood Dec 2016 #41

Obama embraced the person to person contacts and persuasion geek tragedy Dec 2016 #43

I campaigned for Hillary in Philly HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #77

I'd love to see stats on that, as I know people who knocked on doors and was asked to bus to a swing bettyellen Dec 2016 #134

Agreed, that paragraph is total bullshit. emulatorloo Dec 2016 #169

I knocked doors in Iowa. As did many others. I call bullshit on this 'arrogant' article. emulatorloo Dec 2016 #167

This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Dec 2016 #168

No one was knocking on doors? mcar Dec 2016 #177

... THIS... pkdu Dec 2016 #53

I was listening to Greg Palast yesterday. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #8

Exactly. Else You Are Mad Dec 2016 #11

Exactly. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #13

This Catholic voted for Hillary. Else You Are Mad Dec 2016 #18

And the split of voting echoes what you say here. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #44

That is most likely single issue abortion voters ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #117

It could be. Catholics are divided on the question of abortion and contraception. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #119

Exactly ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #122

Interesting also that what is called "identity politics" guillaumeb Dec 2016 #125

Yup ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #133

The fact that she lost to Bernie in Michigan should've thrown up a red flag the size of Texas mtnsnake Dec 2016 #15

+1 nt jonno99 Dec 2016 #63

+2 putitinD Dec 2016 #130

No more Brooklyn HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #80

Excellent question. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #185

Depends on the swing state Chitown Kev Dec 2016 #186

Presidential candidates almost always have their headquarters in their home state - to do otherwise Midwestern Democrat Dec 2016 #193

Exactly.... LovingA2andMI Dec 2016 #139

No one was more surprised than Bernie. He seemed confused by it. ehrnst Dec 2016 #178

Note to the DNC. Baitball Blogger Dec 2016 #16

Is this a serious post? For real? BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #19

They can sue. Read the lawsuits in the Bush v Gore fiasco. Baitball Blogger Dec 2016 #42

Political parties don't provide voting machines. Anywhere. nt BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #55

Omigod! Baitball Blogger Dec 2016 #76

And I've spelled out to you how parties don't pay for equipment. BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #98

The DNC is always collecting money for something. And when you finally contribute, Baitball Blogger Dec 2016 #155

Of course you have a great idea that just needs someone else to pay for it. BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #158

Excuse me? Did you fail to notice that I do contribute? Baitball Blogger Dec 2016 #162

More of the same "someone else has to do all the work for this idea I had!" claptrap. BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #164

If you want to waste your time with a system that has proven to be inefficient, that is your Baitball Blogger Dec 2016 #171

The broken machine this is interesting since I doubt that they were working during the primaries HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #83

Is your post serious? former9thward Dec 2016 #54

Except the DNC doesn't control or direct county-level activity. BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #58

Actually, in Michigan... LovingA2andMI Dec 2016 #140

Fuck getting them updated. Else You Are Mad Dec 2016 #21

This. I like the system we use in my precinct. We have a big stiff paper ballot where jonno99 Dec 2016 #68

It is intentionally hard. Else You Are Mad Dec 2016 #72

This is the system the Republican counties use in Florida. Baitball Blogger Dec 2016 #79

The system I mentioned? Ok, but we are deep blue here in my area...nt jonno99 Dec 2016 #82

yep; there absolutely needs to be all paper ballots, all hand-counted. will never happen TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #183

The defective machine was in Brooklyn BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #22

Plenty of blame to go around for this shitbacle. geek tragedy Dec 2016 #24

Your concern.... Boxerfan Dec 2016 #26

some of us take winning elections as a very serious task that requires we do everything geek tragedy Dec 2016 #27

Yes- Like ignoring the Russian hacks Boxerfan Dec 2016 #32

Not about blame, it's about recognizing mistakes geek tragedy Dec 2016 #34

Well, I hate to inform you. Else You Are Mad Dec 2016 #51

t. He doesn't understand what information warfare is Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #61

Maybe we should hire Trump in 2020... Else You Are Mad Dec 2016 #74

Are you saying that Hillary never could have won? HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #88

She could've won Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #92

Honestly, I think Trump is the only reason why we had any chance at all. Midwestern Democrat Dec 2016 #194

My major issue is they had no idea what their real numbers were BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #29

all data models are garbage in, garbage out. geek tragedy Dec 2016 #35

A culture of truth aversion will do that to you BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #37

so will hubris nt geek tragedy Dec 2016 #39

GIGO - yep. It appears that the biggest problem with "the data" was the BROAD assumption jonno99 Dec 2016 #71

Exactly right FBaggins Dec 2016 #192

The Communication Was Top Down McKim Dec 2016 #78

That's strange as I have friends that did data entry and were easily able to pick up signs and bettyellen Dec 2016 #141

it's possible some problems were specific to Michigan or even local offices within Michigan. nt geek tragedy Dec 2016 #143

And offices always run out and then replenish materials, have dead hours before super busy ones.... bettyellen Dec 2016 #149

let's back up for a second here. geek tragedy Dec 2016 #151

I haven't heard of this "head fake" stuff so I can't say... bettyellen Dec 2016 #153

No signs HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #145

My neighbor got signs stickers and some handouts. We had scripts from the app too. bettyellen Dec 2016 #150

Look....Let's Break This Down...At Least In Michigan LovingA2andMI Dec 2016 #157

I really dont trust politico or any of their staff..enough said INdemo Dec 2016 #31

"Hillary Clinton won this election period." - I think you are going to be in for an unpleasant... PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #57

election Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #62

The actual election for President takes place December 19th, you know... PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #65

when does the shadow government meet? Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #67

I think you know what I mean..In reality Clinton won INdemo Dec 2016 #101

This is all monday morning quarterbacking treestar Dec 2016 #47

every NFL team goes over game film to figure out what they did wrong nt geek tragedy Dec 2016 #48

The Michigan result was especially disappointing LyndaG Dec 2016 #49

Clinton isn't Obama. nt geek tragedy Dec 2016 #50

And right there is our problem. Exilednight Dec 2016 #208

Please STOP with the "How Clinton Lost" threads Persondem Dec 2016 #60

no, that's what postmortems are--a chance to learn from our mistakes. geek tragedy Dec 2016 #64

Except that exactly NONE of the points in your OP will apply to any Persondem Dec 2016 #69

really? Data, voter outreach, central vs local decisionmaking won't geek tragedy Dec 2016 #87

Umm... Yeah.... LovingA2andMI Dec 2016 #144

That's just silly and rather strawmanish. Clinton had a much more robust ground game than Trump Persondem Dec 2016 #202

Really? In a forum titled "2016 Postmortem"? Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #180

Well why don't you let me know exactly what part this OP will apply to 2020? Persondem Dec 2016 #201

I told you, this is the Postmortem 2016 forum. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #204

I think that the point of a postmortem is to provide guidance for the Persondem Dec 2016 #211

I love how for things like this... vi5 Dec 2016 #75

The Monday Morning QB argument is really unpersuasive. geek tragedy Dec 2016 #85

Especially since many of those same folks vi5 Dec 2016 #131

I'm thinking the people obsessing over the roles you speak of are not the same people I think Lil Missy Dec 2016 #206

Well, since I specifically said.. vi5 Dec 2016 #207

I stand by my statement. n/t Lil Missy Dec 2016 #209

Congratulations vi5 Dec 2016 #210

And 90%+ of ad buys for HRC were negative driving down turnout even further JCMach1 Dec 2016 #84

I'm more concerned with cleaning up our voting system for 2018. C Moon Dec 2016 #86

I don't think any of this sort of thing would have mattered if we had a real media NRaleighLiberal Dec 2016 #91

Watching Gladiator should be required for any candidate HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #93

lesson from this election is that everything matters. nt geek tragedy Dec 2016 #94

Yup! NRaleighLiberal Dec 2016 #95

The bottom line is, it isn't about Clinton elmac Dec 2016 #96

Bernie could have done very well in the Rust Belt HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #100

Maybe elmac Dec 2016 #142

Subtract the southern vote, and I think we know where we end up. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #179

Just to name a few. ooglymoogly Dec 2016 #160

spell correction ooglymoogly Dec 2016 #163

Hillary had the big money and lost. jfern Dec 2016 #187

I continue to believe that this would not have happened to Bernie. Joe941 Dec 2016 #99

it's possible, also possible Bernie would have done even worse. geek tragedy Dec 2016 #103

Thanks, this is a very informative article. Jim Lane Dec 2016 #102

people are wired to focus on one cause and one solution in defeat, geek tragedy Dec 2016 #107

Ignoring flaws after a victory is definitely a problem. Jim Lane Dec 2016 #129

Thousands of Detroit Ballot with no presidential preference...no Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #104

Clinton lost the election because of the Comey letter(s). Period. End of story. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #105

Wang, to be candid, is looking to CYA after his entire election model was proven to be sh!t geek tragedy Dec 2016 #109

I cannot believe he did that HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #118

there's video ... nt geek tragedy Dec 2016 #120

If you want to be candid, you have to acknowledge the death blow of the Comey letters. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #135

Comey certainly did not help, but when it's so close and there are so many different problems, geek tragedy Dec 2016 #146

It wasn't "so close" before the Comey letters. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #147

you're still claiming setting up that server wasn't a mistake? geek tragedy Dec 2016 #148

Don't want to answer my question? nt SunSeeker Dec 2016 #154

Without the Comey letter, we would've narrowly won MI, WI, PA and probably FL. dawg Dec 2016 #106

As I just told someone else, we tend to ignore our mistakes instead of fixing geek tragedy Dec 2016 #108

We ignore our mistakes when we win, but we also tend to magnify them when we lose. dawg Dec 2016 #115

certainly we shouldn't discount every good thing the Clinton campaign did, or accomplished. geek tragedy Dec 2016 #124

2016 he was 100:1 in the primaries HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #126

Yes, but he will have fucked up the whole country by then. dawg Dec 2016 #132

No, your opinion is not exactly mine so therefore you must be wrong. Rex Dec 2016 #111

in death by a thousand cuts, only the 1000th cut is worthy of prevention going forward nt geek tragedy Dec 2016 #112

Maybe we are a hydra and when we cut off our own head in spite Rex Dec 2016 #114

Hail Hydra seems to be a common sentiment these days nt geek tragedy Dec 2016 #121

No comment. Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #116

Great thread and reasoning, geek tragedy True Dough Dec 2016 #128

she needed to go LEFT.be more than RUMP. pansypoo53219 Dec 2016 #138

Per CNN exit polls, only 17% of voters wanted the next president to be more liberal. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #156

She was left. emulatorloo Dec 2016 #170

That's completely contradictory to all polls but whatever... bettyellen Dec 2016 #172

WTF? Who are you talking about? (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #175

All this is relevant but nothing works if you cannot combat mfcorey1 Dec 2016 #159

The election was called without Michigan, by the way. LisaM Dec 2016 #161

Take everything you read in THE POLITICO with a huge bolder of salt. emulatorloo Dec 2016 #173

I live in NY, but travelled by bus to PA with dozens of other volunteers lapucelle Dec 2016 #181

It's a dirty diaper leftover from the primary wars. ucrdem Dec 2016 #182

screw this narrative. triron Dec 2016 #184

It's mostly infuriating because it's a pile of pure BS. synergie Dec 2016 #188

Yes she made some mistakes standingtall Dec 2016 #205